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Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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Fair dinkum we are 2-3.
I know, right?

We've played the top of the ladder from last year who just beat the premier and the premier. Our other loss came against a team who came sixth last season. It's too early to truly talk about form for this season; takes ten games to know roughly where you sit.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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Hardwick had Richmond in finals before 2016. Premiership Experience. Of course give teague a year with different assistants but my gut tells me he hasnt got it
It took Hardwick 4 seasons to reach finals. Was appointed in 2009 as a caretaker coach, had his first full season in 2010, failed to make finals in 2011 and 2012.

So, have the good manners to keep your self-flaggelation to yourself.
 

jpfalvo

Team Captain
Aug 2, 2009
334
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It took Hardwick 4 seasons to reach finals. Was appointed in 2009 as a caretaker coach, had his first full season in 2010, failed to make finals in 2011 and 2012.

So, have the good manners to keep your self-flaggelation to yourself.
Actually Jade Rawlings was caretaker coach not Hardwick. His first season was 2010 but appointed in Aug 2009.

Poster is Comparing rebuilds. Hardwick had them in finals after 3years. BOLTON had us last.

Ours started 2016. Its 2021 nowhere near finals. Speaks to the administration, list quality and internal direction.

Teague was brought in to take us up the ladder and finals. Club has stated finals is the expectation. What are you missing?

Its not the loss, its the manner of the loss.
Felt like 10goals. Further to this Teague told us during the week its not about the result, what kind of winning ethos is that

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Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
16,345
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Actually Jade Rawlings was caretaker coach not Hardwick. His first season was 2010 but appointed in Aug 2009.

Poster is Comparing rebuilds.

Ours started 2016. Its 2021 nowhere near finals. Speaks to the administration, list quality and internal direction

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Took my stats from Wikipedia, which had Hardwick take over in 2009. If that's wrong, my apologies.

Poster was saying Teague isn't up to it, as part of a comparison to Hardwick. Teague has been a coach - if we're being generous - for 2.5 years. It took Hardwick 4 seasons to make finals.

It's 5 games into 2021. Let's have this chat again in September, shall we?
 

jpfalvo

Team Captain
Aug 2, 2009
334
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Took my stats from Wikipedia, which had Hardwick take over in 2009. If that's wrong, my apologies.

Poster was saying Teague isn't up to it, as part of a comparison to Hardwick. Teague has been a coach - if we're being generous - for 2.5 years. It took Hardwick 4 seasons to make finals.

It's 5 games into 2021. Let's have this chat again in September, shall we?
More than happy to. Hardwick also had linear improvement in ladder position on the way to finals.

Scrapping into finals won't solve the obvious issues we have.

Primarily related to development, leadership and coaching group as a whole.

I think we all accept what we are seeing right now is not acceptable. Removal of another senior coach alone, wont fix our issues. Its broader than that

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Rosscoe

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Sep 28, 2018
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I agree can easily change the narrative with a couple of wins .
But will it happen given what weve seen up till now i doubt it and this is what people are feeling .

Im not seeing anything in this group so far this year that fill me with any feeling that we are progressing as a TEAM .
I still see individuals keeping us in games but still having too many passengers and too many players senior included making the same mistakes .
I agree players are making the same mistakes but that means it can be easily fixed. We also had to many gaffs which resulted in 4 goals. What concerns me is that our effort/pressure at times wasn’t there but it is a young group.

I think some players are developing but we need a lot more contributors if we are going to compete for a finals spot.
 

Rosscoe

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I know, right?

We've played the top of the ladder from last year who just beat the premier and the premier. Our other loss came against a team who came sixth last season. It's too early to truly talk about form for this season; takes ten games to know roughly where you sit.

💯
 

Iamcarlton

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I agree players are making the same mistakes but that means it can be easily fixed. We also had to many gaffs which resulted in 4 goals. What concerns me is that our effort/pressure at times wasn’t there but it is a young group.

I think some players are developing but we need a lot more contributors if we are going to compete for a finals spot.
Finals this year wasn't on my radar two things the team we are rolling out most weeks is not a young group and is exactly why imo we need to drop a couple of older senior players .

We've gone full circle from too young to too old given we are still rebuilding and trying to find the right mix .

Secondly we've all been saying the mistakes are easily fixed given time and experience yet here we are now into the 6th year since the rebuild began whilst adding a number of mature aged recruits the last 2 years and still the abundance of basic errors continue .
Its unacceptable and needs be made clear through selection .
The list needs a shakeup not at the end of season with massive culls but in season wake up calls starting with some older senior players down .
A little difficult with availability at present but definitely needs to happen asap imo .
 

TENACIOUS

My Man Paddy Dow
Aug 16, 2008
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the question is, chosen by whom?
No way a new head coach or any head coach in that matter doesn't have majority input into their assistant coaches..

Plus we could have go ridden of them all last year paid them all out, outside the soft cap as per covid rules
but elected to keep them :confusedv1:

Barker has been there for 10 years and part of 3 failed coaches and a failing Teague..
How does Teague and the club not see this :madv1:
 

juzz88

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Oct 24, 2009
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If we had've kicked straight in the first half, this whole nonsense would have been avoided.

I'm sure we still would've lost, but we wouldn't have been embarrassed. The boys put enormous pressure on themselves by missing easy shots early on, and then the wheels completely fell off.

Tactical deficiencies or no, Teague can't kick it for them.
 

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gab213

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Aug 29, 2013
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he has
Good points,
Teague has had his honey moon period last year.. Now he and his chosen team off assistants need to be held accountable, no more excuses

He has had one full season of coaching experience at this level and even then it was hardly a regular type of season, had to deal with a lot of extraordinary circumstances.

He hasn't been a senior coach for two years yet. He's in a growth and development phase himself as a senior AFL coach, it was never going to be an easy task. Some patience is required, people refer to the past 20 years, they have been frustrating years for us, but none of that is relevant to Teague as a coach.
 

TENACIOUS

My Man Paddy Dow
Aug 16, 2008
820
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he has



He has had one full season of coaching experience at this level and even then it was hardly a regular type of season, had to deal with a lot of extraordinary circumstances.

He hasn't been a senior coach for two years yet. He's in a growth and development phase himself as a senior AFL coach, it was never going to be an easy task. Some patience is required, people refer to the past 20 years, they have been frustrating years for us, but none of that is relevant to Teague as a coach.
He has had enough time to be as accountable, as the rest of the coaches in the league.

I would give him a new lot of successful assistant coaches (Leppitsch, Solomon types), before I made any decisions to move him on though...
 

egalite

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Feb 17, 2020
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If they can't kick and won't run they shouldn't get a game at all.
Doesn't matter where they play.

I do see your point though.
Hopefully Samo as a back is just a bit of development and not permanent. Fogarty has been here 5 games and is arguably doing a better job than Samo ever did. I see that as Samo's best position and I don't think he's going to take it off Fog anytime soon.
Should I blame the losses on this then? C'mon mate.

Let's see the players run and tackle hard, hit targets and kick more goals than behinds first.
Then sack the coach if we are still consistently losing.
I highly doubt our list is capable of that on a week to week basis.
I do not consider our club will seriously challenge for anything until we start with a clean house, From the Head to the Boots.

We have all been able to see for years Players who cannot kick think or execute game plans, yet here we are 5 years after this "rebuild" commenced and nothing substantial has changed except the names on paper in a few cases.
 

Gethelred

Brownlow Medallist
May 1, 2016
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More than happy to. Hardwick also had linear improvement in ladder position on the way to finals.

Scrapping into finals won't solve the obvious issues we have.

Primarily related to development, leadership and coaching group as a whole.

I think we all accept what we are seeing right now is not acceptable. Removal of another senior coach alone, wont fix our issues. Its broader than that

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I agree ostensibly with the post, but you state that Hardwick showed linear improvement in ladder position on the way to finals, before going on to state that scrapping into finals won't solve the issues.

Is making finals this year not linear progression in each year of Teague's coaching? Does that not show signs of improvement?
 

Rosscoe

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Sep 28, 2018
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Finals this year wasn't on my radar two things the team we are rolling out most weeks is not a young group and is exactly why imo we need to drop a couple of older senior players .

We've gone full circle from too young to too old given we are still rebuilding and trying to find the right mix .

Secondly we've all been saying the mistakes are easily fixed given time and experience yet here we are now into the 6th year since the rebuild began whilst adding a number of mature aged recruits the last 2 years and still the abundance of basic errors continue .
Its unacceptable and needs be made clear through selection .
The list needs a shakeup not at the end of season with massive culls but in season wake up calls starting with some older senior players down .
A little difficult with availability at present but definitely needs to happen asap imo .
What I mean as a young group is I think players are at their peak 26-30 years old. We still have a fair bit to come through with kemp, stocker etc.

I would hold with players like Dow and lob; I don’t think we will get much for them on the market and believe they will become solid contributors.

Because we have basically turned over our whole list in the last six years it will take time to build a cohesive unit.

The basic errors were costly and as much as I hate to say it; Doc was the worst culprit. I agree with accountability with senior players but until some of these younger guys start showing something in the reserves; dropping them may cost us even more.

We are a few players off a complete list and injuries have cost us but I think we will respond against the lions next week. We will need to if we want to stay in the hunt.
 

Iamcarlton

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What I mean as a young group is I think players are at their peak 26-30 years old. We still have a fair bit to come through with kemp, stocker etc.

I would hold with players like Dow and lob; I don’t think we will get much for them on the market and believe they will become solid contributors.

Because we have basically turned over our whole list in the last six years it will take time to build a cohesive unit.

The basic errors were costly and as much as I hate to say it; Doc was the worst culprit. I agree with accountability with senior players but until some of these younger guys start showing something in the reserves; dropping them may cost us even more.

We are a few players off a complete list and injuries have cost us but I think we will respond against the lions next week. We will need to if we want to stay in the hunt.
Thanks for the clarification i agree with most of that other than the older players or some in particular Murphy and Casboult .
Given the mature aged players we have recruited over the past 2 years i have no reason to believe we would miss murphs contribution to the side at all .
Easily covered imo .
Cas is a different story being the second ruck but his form has been very ordinary which i now believe Harry needs to start to do some rucking atleast in the short term .
His bodywork up forward is generally poor falls to ground way too easily a bit of ruck bodywork may actually do him some good .
Possibly a more adequate time to implement this is when TDK is up and about .
 

Brackets

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Nov 7, 2019
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When he took over, he said stuff about playing to strengths. So why is he continuing to play players out of their best position?

Cuningham carved it up against the * last year but we have rarely seen him in the mid since. Way to shoot confidence down in players.

I’m nt sold on Teague
Overly simplistic but maybe that's part of the issue. Telling players to go out there and do what they do best.

Cripps is told he's a bull and leader so he tries to bullock his way through every contest and do the heroic.

Saad and Williamson told to take the game on so they run themselves into trouble at any opportunity.

Pitto is there to win taps so he lumbers around until the next stoppage.

Beat your man so we see them not covering for each other.

Again too simplistic but there is certainly a lack of cohesion or players sacrificing their own performance for the team.
 

Mikkey

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Sep 8, 2017
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I listened to the presser one more time. It sounds a bit like piss taking. How can you talk about the game and the group like this and be taken serious. It is an insult to the supporters.
Problem is that our weaknesses are not getting smaller, they are getting worse.
We don't seem fit. We don't have structure and systems - look at our transitions from D50 to F50.
And we are not even young anymore. And we are buying players that are not worth the money. Mitch is a disaster on a huge salary. Williams - worth $800 K? Cripps might leave or stay on a huge contract while on a downward slope.
And who is in the VFL who can come in - 1 or 2 players. Is this rebuild finished without making finals? Has any club ever had such bad results with so many first round draftees?
The leadership of the Club has to sit down and take stock. Things are not working. I can not tell you what needs to be changed, but things need to be changed.
How come we have 80 K members and only so few show up? Sitting in the members I can feel how pissed off they are. So maybe the club should stop pissing in our pockets and tell us it's raining.
We deserve better communication and we need to see some action in the football department.
We know Teague is a nice guy. But we need to be convinced he can coach. Currently this is just a very badly drilled team where most players play for themselves.
Rant over.
 

Michael Jezz

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Jan 30, 2007
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Tigers took 10 years from the start of their rebuild, 2007, before supporters stopped calling for blood

10 years!!!
Spin it all you want. If Richmond started their rebuild with the recruitment of Rance and cotchin in 2007 year end- Carlton started in 2013 year end with Cripps, making Carltons results worse. The accurate answer is Richmond's rebuild began with their vision statement in 2010 and the appointment of Hardwick. Fact is Richmond played finals 2013, 2014, 2015. Anyway you cut it Carlton are not playing finals or winning 9 in a row like the tigers to get there-although I hope we do.
 

Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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Spin it all you want. If Richmond started their rebuild with the recruitment of Rance and cotchin in 2007 year end- Carlton started in 2013 year end with Cripps, making Carltons results worse. The accurate answer is Richmond's rebuild began with their vision statement in 2010 and the appointment of Hardwick. Fact is Richmond played finals 2013, 2014, 2015. Anyway you cut it Carlton are not playing finals or winning 9 in a row like the tigers to get there-although I hope we do.
Spin? Our rebuild started in 2013?

EVERYONE was saying Hardwick had to be sacked end of 2016, yet you want to rewrite history after the fact?

Where have I said we will win 9 in row?
 

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