Surely we can teach people to read

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Kram said:
There's always been quite a few kids out my way that barely even go to school even from a young age, why the government or general pubic don't seem to care and bother to do anything about it is beyond me.
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What do you suggest they do? I have friends. The husband was a principal at a school in a community which had a large absentee rate. He did everything in his power to try to get them to attend. In return he copped verbal, and at times physical, abuse. He is now suffering from PTSD and his wife is now his carer. It's much easier said than done.
 
Kram said:
There's always been quite a few kids out my way that barely even go to school even from a young age, why the government or general pubic don't seem to care and bother to do anything about it is beyond me.
Click to expand...
There are many contributing factors. I know when I went to boarding school in WA (Lived in Newman for my High School years) the government paid allowances to for Indigenous students to go to boarding school.

The Indigenous students who's parents took up the offer got additional academic support from staff (Teachers, boarding nuns and priests etc). But most didn't return after 3 to 4 years due to factors including:
- homesickness
- family culture. E.g poor views on academics


When I went to the HS in newman they did have a high absentee rate.

As a teacher, you see this from suburb to suburb. Many poor socio-economic areas have a lower academic results. Some parents who struggle themselves will find it harder to support their child which in turn makes it harder for teachers who might have 10 students who are working below the expected level.

Yes, teachers play a huge factor. But as a teacher who taught Prep/Foundation, when I did the English Online test (baseline entry test). You could see the students who entered that had the support. They knew their rhyming words, letters of the alphabet and write their name and even read some common words (the, of, a, I, it etc).

Then there were those who couldn't recognise a letter of the alphabet or their sound. Couldn't read or write their name.

Now I'm not support is squarely on the parents, it's also the kindergarten programs focusing on more play base. We pulled my child from the local one as it was only play based and had 30 students in a room. We moved him to a country one 20 minutes up the road with 16 kids and he loved it.

Back onto schools, the prep teachers have a monumental effort to get those kids (anywhere between 10-18) to know their letters of the alphabet, read and write while when they don't have that support at home in practicing to read (many schools don't have intervention programs as budgets don't allow the hiring of a teacher to do it). I had parents who said they don't have time or believe it's the schools job.

Going into older years, I also taught kids who were still playing catch up from Prep. One year I had 10kids out of 21 working below the expected level. Many only made 6 months growth. Using their data and curriculum, I mapped where to focus my energy and with my team we did intervention groups, differentiated tasks. Modelled writing and reading skills. I still got 92% of my students make 12 months growth.

In this time some parents were onboard, others I never heard from. My cousin who teachers in Elwood, never had this issue. In fact, his parents were more academic driven.

Surprisingly the government give those schools more funding and money.
 
raskolnikov said:
What do you suggest they do? I have friends. The husband was a principal at a school in a community which had a large absentee rate. He did everything in his power to try to get them to attend. In return he copped verbal, and at times physical, abuse. He is now suffering from PTSD and his wife is now his carer. It's much easier said than done.
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The amount of times teachers and leaders cop abuse is reflected in the amount leaving the profession.

I have had parents abuse me for trying to get their child to do homework (a sheet that would take 30minutes maximum a week) in a homework club ran at Monday lunch. This parent also had a habit of giving them near straight cordial instead of water in the drink bottle (you could see the bright colour through a grey drink bottle) causing the student to get hyperactive and disruptive on a sugar high. They tore shreds off me for not letting him have it during class time.

One parent blamed me for their child being behind academically at a parent teacher meeting. This was after I showed the amount of days the child was absent (30 days in a semester), student work samples and phone call log where I tried to organise a meeting with them before the parent and teacher meeting.
 

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Kwality said:

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au www.theaustralian.com.au
poor-literacy-standards-targeted/news-story/03aadb8322a835ec8a009088ec26ffd6

Writing on the wall as poor literacy standards targeted

“I could read three or four-letter words, but not much else,” he says. “I’d get to a six or seven-letter word and just give up.”

Illiteracy has plagued .... for most of his life. At school, he’d often struggle to concentrate and would “play up a lot” as a result.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 47 per cent of Tasmania’s adult males and 53 per cent of females are considered “functionally illiterate”, meaning they struggle with the basic skills needed to read a form or brochure or understand a newspaper article.'



WE have a long way to go ....
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I'm not sure what the curriculum and schools are like in Tasmania, but a colleague who use to live there and taught music, mentioned that they were a bit behind in initiatives.
 
Kwality said:
eddie-betts-football-return-ntfl-team-debut-palmerston-magpies/100588462

"I couldn't read or write when I got drafted [to the AFL] and it was really tough."

"I want kids to go to school, I want kids to graduate and I want kids to learn to read and write."

Betts said feats on the field would be secondary to being able to embark on something as important as improving education in remote communities.

"Footy was on the back burner for me," he said.

"I've always wanted to work within communities. I've always wanted to help Aboriginal kids go to school."
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Did Betts go to school in the NT? They have a hard time retaining teachers due to the remoteness. Great to start out your career but being away from everything and the demands outweigh the pay.

Many teachers have to go and knock on doors to get students in school and drive the bus around to pick up and drop off. There was a show on it (I think SBS or ABC) about teaching remote.

I personally would love it, but can't see my wife and kids do it.
 
raskolnikov said:
What do you suggest they do? I have friends. The husband was a principal at a school in a community which had a large absentee rate. He did everything in his power to try to get them to attend. In return he copped verbal, and at times physical, abuse. He is now suffering from PTSD and his wife is now his carer. It's much easier said than done.
Click to expand...
Government could step in and trim Centrelink payments if your kid's attendance drops below a certain % without valid explanation, would guarantee around here it would solve the problem very quickly. Makes a hell of a lot more sense as an obligation than all the other pointless hoops people have to jump through to collect the dole these days.

How is the poverty loop supposed to be broken with liitle or no education? Seems an absolute joke in a country as well off as Australia.
Jack Richards said:
There are many contributing factors. I know when I went to boarding school in WA (Lived in Newman for my High School years) the government paid allowances to for Indigenous students to go to boarding school.

The Indigenous students who's parents took up the offer got additional academic support from staff (Teachers, boarding nuns and priests etc). But most didn't return after 3 to 4 years due to factors including:
- homesickness
- family culture. E.g poor views on academics


When I went to the HS in newman they did have a high absentee rate.

As a teacher, you see this from suburb to suburb. Many poor socio-economic areas have a lower academic results. Some parents who struggle themselves will find it harder to support their child which in turn makes it harder for teachers who might have 10 students who are working below the expected level.

Yes, teachers play a huge factor. But as a teacher who taught Prep/Foundation, when I did the English Online test (baseline entry test). You could see the students who entered that had the support. They knew their rhyming words, letters of the alphabet and write their name and even read some common words (the, of, a, I, it etc).

Then there were those who couldn't recognise a letter of the alphabet or their sound. Couldn't read or write their name.

Now I'm not support is squarely on the parents, it's also the kindergarten programs focusing on more play base. We pulled my child from the local one as it was only play based and had 30 students in a room. We moved him to a country one 20 minutes up the road with 16 kids and he loved it.

Back onto schools, the prep teachers have a monumental effort to get those kids (anywhere between 10-18) to know their letters of the alphabet, read and write while when they don't have that support at home in practicing to read (many schools don't have intervention programs as budgets don't allow the hiring of a teacher to do it). I had parents who said they don't have time or believe it's the schools job.

Going into older years, I also taught kids who were still playing catch up from Prep. One year I had 10kids out of 21 working below the expected level. Many only made 6 months growth. Using their data and curriculum, I mapped where to focus my energy and with my team we did intervention groups, differentiated tasks. Modelled writing and reading skills. I still got 92% of my students make 12 months growth.

In this time some parents were onboard, others I never heard from. My cousin who teachers in Elwood, never had this issue. In fact, his parents were more academic driven.

Surprisingly the government give those schools more funding and money.
Click to expand...
It's not just indigenous kids, it's white people as well around here.

My sister does relief around Perth and said she's filled in a bit at a specialist indigenous school. Apparently they have things like buses that go around and pick everyone up and a curriculum specifically tailored for their needs with plenty of indigenous staff. Think she may have even said they have a higher attendance than average for schools. Sounded like a great set up, I'll ask more about it when I see her next.
 
Kram said:
Government could step in and trim Centrelink payments if your kid's attendance drops below a certain % without valid explanation, would guarantee around here it would solve the problem very quickly. Makes a hell of a lot more sense as an obligation than all the other pointless hoops people have to jump through to collect the dole these days.

How is the poverty loop supposed to be broken with liitle or no education? Seems an absolute joke in a country as well off as Australia.

It's not just indigenous kids, it's white people as well around here.

My sister does relief around Perth and said she's filled in a bit at a specialist indigenous school. Apparently they have things like buses that go around and pick everyone up and a curriculum specifically tailored for their needs with plenty of indigenous staff. Think she may have even said they have a higher attendance than average for schools. Sounded like a great set up, I'll ask more about it when I see her next.
Click to expand...
Agree that's why I said it also depends on the suburbs.

It's also a generational thing.

The excuses I get for no support from home:
"They had after school sports"
Me: Really all 7 days?
"We get home late"
Me: You couldn't do it before bed or listen to them read in the car on the way home?

Funniest I got:
I don't think maths is too important, so I'm not going to expect my child to do well in it.

Schools are doing their best. Public in particular with the big gap in funding. When you consider the amount schools get per students (impacted by the parents job which is on a point index factor) it doesn't look great.

Take my school for instance: Roughly (really rough figures) got 20mill a year as it is a huge school (1200 students) back in 2019.. had to pay 100 staff (es and teachers). These were highly experienced teacher so over 100K per teacher.

Cleaning and bills also included which were a big cost.

Resources...

Didn't leave Much money let alone enough for intervention teachers.
 
Deliverance said:
Too much time on laptops and ipads in schools. End thread.
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Every student in year 7 at our school next year has to have an iPad. Can't wait to see this logistical nightmare in action. Sounds ok in theory but I can envisage so many issues.
 

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Deliverance said:
Classes will be peaceful and quiet because kids will be watching Kayo or playing roblox. 🤣🤣
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Apparently somehow we are going to be able to lock the kids into the app they're meant to be on.

My biggest concern is kids not bringing their iPad to class. I mean a lot of them can't bring their own stationery. How's an iPad going to be any different? At least you can give kids who haven't got one a pen.
 
raskolnikov said:
Apparently somehow we are going to be able to lock the kids into the app they're meant to be on.

My biggest concern is kids not bringing their iPad to class. I mean a lot of them can't bring their own stationery. How's an iPad going to be any different? At least you can give kids who haven't got one a pen.
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Devices are a fifth limb to most youngsters (and oldsters ;) ). Yes, how it will be used as intended will be interesting.
 
raskolnikov said:
Apparently somehow we are going to be able to lock the kids into the app they're meant to be on.

My biggest concern is kids not bringing their iPad to class. I mean a lot of them can't bring their own stationery. How's an iPad going to be any different? At least you can give kids who haven't got one a pen.
Click to expand...
That's a great move if you have full control over their devices.
Yep, logistically it can be problematic. They drop them and break them or do other dumb s**t to them or don't charge them as well and then don't have them.
 
raskolnikov said:
Apparently somehow we are going to be able to lock the kids into the app they're meant to be on.

My biggest concern is kids not bringing their iPad to class. I mean a lot of them can't bring their own stationery. How's an iPad going to be any different? At least you can give kids who haven't got one a pen.
Click to expand...
We use the locking system. Pain when students come to your class with the guided access lock on and you dont have the password and have to chase their previous teacher to get it.

Our biggest issue is addiction and anxiety when students are asked to put it down for an hour and wanting to look at things non education related and not age appropriate.
 
Deliverance said:
That's a great move if you have full control over their devices.
Yep, logistically it can be problematic. They drop them and break them or do other dumb sh*t to them or don't charge them as well and then don't have them.
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As our school supplies ipads for every student, we had 1 student break 6 ipads in 3 years due to anger management (tier 3 behaviour). Did over $4k damage in total. Couldn't get parents to fork out money. Basically said "You want students to have them, tough"
 
Jack Richards said:
As our school supplies ipads for every student, we had 1 student break 6 ipads in 3 years due to anger management (tier 3 behaviour). Did over $4k damage in total. Couldn't get parents to fork out money. Basically said "You want students to have them, tough"
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Fair enough. What do they use iPads for, that traditional teaching methods can’t accommodate?
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
Fair enough. What do they use iPads for, that traditional teaching methods can’t accommodate?
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To be honest, I would say not much. Mostly robotics and a way to engage them into the curriculum (such as mathletics).

As the technologies leader, I have supplied them with plenty of resources ideas but slow growth in using it for that.

Also with students with low IQ and ASD, it's a security blanket and at home, iPads are a babysitter device so kids cant differentiate between purpose of iPads at home vs school.
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
Fair enough. What do they use iPads for, that traditional teaching methods can’t accommodate?
Click to expand...
That's the theory, but I've never seen a school use laptops/ipads for things that books and pens can't do, except for maybe for 5% of the time they are used for programming/computer science type activities. They are a net negative most of the time.
 
They should make one of those addictive smartphone games like those freemium games but for learning how to read.

Alternatively just some extra home schooling.
I learned to read before preschool, and all it took was my dad allowing me to read the paper with him.
 
'Every three years, an organisation called PISA (the Program for International Student Assessment) tests a randomly selected sample of pupils from OECD countries to assess levels of education around the world. The most recent set of results, released in 2019, confirmed that standards in Australian education were in decline, with 41 per cent of our 15-year-olds failing to meet what are considered minimum standards for reading, and 20 per cent being functionally illiterate.'

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au www.theaustralian.com.au

'The most widely valued skills in progressive education are not fluency and grace with language or mathematics, but the higher order skills of critical thinking and problem solving. An article published by the ABC on Monday*, “Could our education system be more engaging and fun for our kids? These schools think so and are giving it a crack”, reflects this approach well:

“Students and educators spend parts of their days outside school grounds, exploring local parks and beaches and interacting with the community. They have reading and maths lessons on the beach … Ms Nuss (Principal of the Village School at Coolangatta) started to question why school couldn’t be more like kindergarten … Why can’t children wear tutus to school? Take their shoes off in the classroom? … Our unofficial motto is ‘Failing Forward’. We fail almost everyday at something; as long as we can learn from it, it was a good fail or lesson.”

This may all sound harmless in and of itself, but there is no evidence wearing tutus or taking shoes off helps children learn to read and write and memorise their times tables.'

*https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-17/queensland-schools-education-engaging-kids-bespoke/100573608
 
Taylor said:
Children don't learn to read at school, they learn to read at home. That's the solution and cause of this.
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A “dire” and “disturbing” report analysing 10 years of NAPLAN data has found Tasmanian students’ literacy and numeracy skills decline as they progress through their schooling.
Report author, University of Tasmania workforce demographer Lisa Denny, said the finding should cause “outrage” and result in “urgent” action.

“There is no way to sugar-coat the findings … (which) show that the literacy and numeracy knowledge and skills of Tasmanian students as a cohort have declined as they progress through their schooling from lower primary to upper primary and to secondary schooling,” Dr Denny said.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au www.theaustralian.com.au

“This is despite students being regularly identified through a range of assessments as either at risk or below the expected standard throughout their schooling.

“The report also identifies a decline in proficiency of literacy and numeracy skills for those above the expected standard. The findings warrant many questions, honest discussion and truthful answers. And action.”


www.abc.net.au

Tasmanian students performing worse than a decade ago, NAPLAN analysis shows

About a third of Tasmanian children are struggling to make any headway with reading and writing as they progress through school, an analysis of national test results shows.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Dr Denny said the national minimum standard "set a very low level of proficiency for literacy and numeracy skills", with students at that level potentially requiring additional assistance to enable them to achieve their potential.

The there are the deniers:
www.examiner.com.au

Tasmania's Education Minister calls for NAPLAN review

Tasmania's Education Minister and teacher's union support review of NAPLAN testing.
www.examiner.com.au www.examiner.com.au
Australian Education Union Tasmanian president Helen Richardson questioned why the testing was continuing when there had been little change in NAPLAN results over the past decade.
Ms Richardson said any review must investigate the concerns raised by teachers and principals, and governments must commit to respond to any findings.
“NAPLAN is just one test, a snapshot, and on its own provides a narrow and incomplete picture of a student’s education,” she said.
“NAPLAN is a stressful process for students, teachers and parents, and the AEU is asking, after 10 years, is NAPLAN testing still worthwhile?”
 
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