Survival of the AFL

Remove this Banner Ad

This may sound like a dumb question (and I'm sure every Victorian will think so), but do you believe that the AFL can remain the number one game in Australia well into this century if a majority of it's teams still reside in Melbourne??

There are currently nine teams in Melbourne (plus Geelong) all vying for the same piece of the corporate sponsorship pie. This will eventually drive teams out of Melbourne, either through relocating to another city, or through extintion. You also have other sporting organisations vying for corporate sponsorship which adds further strain on the smaller clubs.

As I said this may be a dumb question considering the new TV deal the AFL are about to get, but the NRL, NBL, WNBL and the soccer league are all showing a decline in support amongst the general public as well as the coporate support, and we are seeing clubs folding because of this, and their are some Melbourne clubs that are struggling to keep their head above water. Because of the worldwide support of Basketball and Soccer I believe these competition will continue, but we may very well be seeing the end of Rugby League as we know it. If the strongest competition in the early nineties can self destruct inside a decade, then the same can happen to the AFL.

As much as I dislike some of these clubs I'd hate to see them disappear because they all have been such a big part of Australia's sporting culture. All these clubs have histories that go back to at least the 1870's and to see that history die out would be criminal. The AFL has to look into the possibilty of relocating a couple of the Melbourne teams to other cities before they are wiped out. While both Hobart and Canberra don't have the facilities (yet) for a team to relocate there, they do have the support, so these are the obvious starting points for the AFL. The fact that the Kangaroos are already looking into Canberra as a viable option suggests that yet again, they are taking their future survival seriously. And it's good to see other teams like Hawthorn and the Bulldogs doing the same.

The talk about two teams for Brisbane and Sydney should remain nothing more than talk. They have been and always will be League and Union strongholds. While League may become nothing more than a local competition, Union will continue to grow on the strength of our National Team, the Wallabies.

While I believe the AFL will survive, and be as strong as ever, the AFL has to do something about spreading the gospel international before it gets eaten up by the global sports such as Rugby Union, Soccer and Basketball. This is such a fantastic, fast, skillful game the rest of the world deserves to see it at it's strongest, with the best teams playing tough attractive footy week in week out. Not a small provincial competition played with entusiasm by the locals but a shadow of it's former great self.


OK ladies, gentlemen, blast away



------------------
Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
 
Let me ask one question

Do you think Sumo wrestling in Japan, Bullfighting in Spain, Gaelic in Ireland, NFL in USA and many other local cultural pursuits will die off because they are localised ?

Ant the problem with the various forms of Rugby has been that they periodiaclly fall out and form breakaways. AFL suffered from that (100 years ago)but they are all working together now.

Baseball was big in a few countries before the war but went out of fashion. International acceptance may not be an answer, especially as to do it in a co-ordinated way would be expensive (as opposed to the ad hoc approach used today.
 
Sumo and bullfighting have a cult following internationally, the NFL and MLB are heavily promoted internationally, and Gaelic Football were having some problems until the International Games against us came about. Some of the smaller teams in Ireland are in greater financial trouble than ours.

------------------
Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
 

Log in to remove this ad.

yes good point there Pess

AFL will alwys be here as long as the people continue to support it. International expansion is a bit of a red herring really. We are the only people who play the game so where do we expand to ?

the game has quite a solid following in selected countries around the world (Denmark, Usa, UK and NZ being the most prominent) but it will only ever be a niche market we are talking about.

Like Sumo and Bullfighting, Australian Rules Footballl remains an indigineous game that is closely linked to the culture and fabric of the community that plays it.

It will never die.

Oh and btw - Rugby League was NOT (repeat NOT) the biggest Australian Sport of the early nineties.

No amount of hype and hoopla or all the bleeding Tina Turners in the world could get League anywhere near the AFL in terms of support.

cheers
 
I believe that the AFL has to improve continually to achieve growth and keep ahead of the other competitions that vie for the sports followers dollars. This will mean spreading clubs further. If nothing is done the AFL will survive but in time soccer or Rugby may come to dominate AFL with smaller crowds and less TV revenue ensuing.

I hope and believe that bull fighting will cease worldwide as international bodies confront this barbaric event. I have been to one and threw up.
 
Written by me at some stage before:

Note: I have written previously using the Kangaroos as an example. This could quite as easily be the Bulldogs or Hawks (who are looking at Tassie) or Saints.

This argument ultimately comes down to the economic realities involved - this many teams in Melbourne are unsustainable and that a better distribution of teams nationally will be more beneficial. The amount of competition for sponsorship dollars for teams in Melbourne currently is too tight.

Take this to a logical conclusion and you will end up with extremely powerful interstate teams who have to fight sponsors off and relatively poor Melbourne clubs how have to fight to eke out every available sponsorship dollar. Even now, the strongest Melbourne club - Essendon - is no match for the likes of West Coast, Adelaide, Fremantle and Port Adelaide.

Sydney and Brisbane now have their administrative houses in order and have no competition from other AFL clubs for sponsorship in their respective cities. Even more alarming is that Brisbane really only have competition from the Brisbane Broncos and North Queensland Cowboys for major corporate sponsorship.

I feel the time for the Kangaroos to look at moving must be now, while they are successful on the field and with their most marketable commodity Wayne Carey still patrolling the forward line. For a team to relocate and to immediately capture their market in their destination, they need to be competitive from the word go. Otherwise, as the Sydney experience showed, it is very difficult to market a product that is weak.

Being strong at the moment is also to the advantage of the Kangaroos as it improves their negotiating position when it comes to talking with the AFL about securing financial assistance. In short, the Kangaroos will be able to move on their own terms. Sydney has shown us that - despite some initial misgivings - original hometown support will be retained when a club does relocate to the extent that the Roy Morgan Research Centre now has Sydney as the club with the largest number of supporters Australia wide.

With the Kangaroos current cash flow, profitability and debt problems indicating a precarious financial position, the time for them to bite the bullet and take the hard decision is running short. Another bleak financial season next year may leave it too late.

------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

[This message has been edited by CJH (edited 18 January 2001).]
 
Not defending bullfoighting at all just stating that local cultural activities have been under threat from 'globalisation' but thrive and survive.

Some overseas people might find aspects of our game barbaric. I was quite surprised myself at the bloodthirst of many around me (in the GF crowd) when Michael Long delivered his bump. I'm sure the outcome was not quite what michael intended and if you read what He writes occasionally I think he would be disgusted at some of the comments I heard.

Incidentally I was also sickened at the way he himself was 'done over' by WCE in 1999 - It's not neccesary
 
Do you seriously believe the Hawks playing one game per year in Tassie (instead of the hated clonial or Princes park) heralds a possible move to tassie ? If so I have a second-hand computer you might like to buy....

Seriously not one Hawks fan believes this to be the case. If they did there would be another riot !
 
Devo, I'd have to disagree with your statement that....
"The talk about two teams for Brisbane and Sydney should remain nothing more than talk. They have been and always will be League and Union strongholds."

The Bureau of Statistic's projections are that sometime between 2025 and 2050, Brisbane will become Australia's second biggest city in terms of population.

I've said before that Southport is ready, willing and able to have an AFL side at the moment....let alone in 10-15 years so when there will be a larger population, more corporate support etc. etc. I've also explained where the money to run a second Queensland side would likely to come from. The late Alan Piper, who I had the pleasure to meet on a few occasions and who had a very good understanding of Queensland football on where it had come from (and where it was going) stated on several occasions (once in a personal conversation) that it was inevitable that there would be a second Queensland AFL side at some point. Southport have already been told by the AFL commission that should they wish to enter the AFL, then they will have to play their matches out of the Gabba, but is unlikely to happen, until a team folds or relocates. If Southport ever enters the AFL, it would most likely be through a relocation of a Melbourne club. According to my information and a couple of media reports as well, Southport have already made tentative approaches to some Melbourne clubs about the possibility of relocating. (Don't ask me which clubs, I wasn't told and therefore don't know..but I can make some educated guesses)

As for Sydney...well looking at the competition in roughly 25 years it would seem amazing to me if by the year 2025-2030, Melbourne (which will be Australia's third largest city) still has nine teams in a national competition, while Australia's biggest city only has one AFL club and Australia's second largest city (Brisbane) still only has one club.

There's no doubt in my mind that Australian Rules is growing well in the northern states, particularly in Queensland and at some point we will see a second AFL club based in those cities...and probably two-three less clubs in Melbourne, given that the competition is unlikely to expand beyond 16 teams. As a Victorian..disappointing, but realistic and unfortunately inevitable.

And just before I get flack from other Vic. clubs supporters, remember that I've already lost my club.
 
I'd be interested to know something from the posters in this thread who are advocating relocation (and in some cases calling it inevitable). What makes you think that a club that can't be financially viable in Victoria, where it has at least 75 years history, will survive in Southport/Brisbane/Sydney/Canberra/Upper Kumbuckta West?
 
I think alot will depend on how the AFL looks after its original members.

As I've said before, loyalty to a club is paramount to its survival. Its easy to get big crowds when you're winning, but when things go bad, you need something to keep people coming along. In most cases, its the emotional connection with the club. Start screwing with that by merging and relocating clubs, changing colours, etc etc, then when things go bad people will leave in droves.

Basketball is a perfect example. A whole bunch of teams which noone cares about because they are just franchises, just forms of entertainment which people eventually get bored of unless they're winning all the time. Soccer in this country is on its knees, and despite mammoth potential, until it is run properly, won't challenge.

So my hope is that the AFL will try and retain the tradition of footy as much as possible and ensure that any new team which enters has the capability to stick around for a long time and build that emotional connection with the people of that city. It's not the sort of thing that happens within one season.

But I disagree that Sydney and Brisbane will always be rugby strongholds. If we are to expand anywhere, its in those two markets... Australia's largest city, and Australia's fastest growing capital. But it must be done at the right time.... and that time is not now. If teams start coming and going, we lose the tradition and become another form of entertainment, which will be abandoned periodically when people we are targetting (ie those with limited attention spans and no concept of loyalty) find something newer and brighter.

Cheers,
Sbagman.
 
Originally posted by Roylion:

The Bureau of Statistic's projections are that sometime between 2025 and 2050, Brisbane will become Australia's second biggest city in terms of population.

I hope not!!!

and probably two-three less clubs in Melbourne, given that the competition is unlikely to expand beyond 16 teams. As a Victorian..disappointing, but realistic and unfortunately inevitable.

Why? I don't understand. The UK has something like 92 professional football teams. Why only 16? If the market is there to support this amount of teams in Melbourne, I see no reason why they shouldn't stay.


And just before I get flack from other Vic. clubs supporters, remember that I've already lost my club.

Me too.
 
While the UK does have 92 professional teams it is a spurious comparison since of those 92 only 4 or 5 can ever seriously hope to win the Premier Division title. The 16 AFL teams all have an opportunity to win the title due to the draft and salary cap. The VFL, SANFL and WAFL teams aren't far from being professional and being equivalent to the UK Division 1, 2 and 3. Including them takes us to 50 professional or near professional teams (and apologies to the more professional of the other clubs in other leagues) in a population less than a third of the UK. We're also supporting 14 professional Rugby League clubs, and 3 professional Super12 Rugby clubs - most of whom provide stern competition to the Swans and Lions in terms of corporate dollars and bums on seats.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Elt,

It's quite simple.

Larger and growing population (pretty much anywhere in NSW or Qld, bar a couple of centres),
Less competition for the sporting dollar (at least on the Gold Coast),
Far greater potential (Anywhere except Melbourne),
In Southports case, a super rich social club which will provide the working capital for the club to at least have no problems short term financially.

And I think the most important thing is that it is becoming clearer that at least a few clubs in Melbourne will simply not survive 10 years down the track, as the cash sources are getting rarer. You can't keep running more and more lamington drives to save a club. So the options are:
Relocate and at least have a chance to prosper, or
Die in Melbourne.

You only have to see just how ridiculous some of the money making ideas coming out of the Kangaroos are to realise that.
 
I read the first few lines so don't diss me if i go onto the wrong track. I reckon the AFl will always be # 1 in Melbourne! But if somehow another sports begin to dominate it'd have to be cricket, no doubt.
 
Roylion, i just want to pick you up on one point, you stated that the Bureau of Statistics projected that Brisbane would overtake Melbourne as the second largest city. This is incorrect as the BOS projections suggest even at a best case scenario by 2051 Brisbane's population would still be around 700,000 short of Melbourne.

The claim that Brisbane would be more populous in such a short time period was perpetrated by wannabes in Queensland sticking the boots in at a time when Victoria was at it's lowest ebb.

Personally I doubt that Brisbane will ever go past Melbourne's population with the massive docklands precinct being developed virtualy doubling Melbourne's CBD.

One salient point to ponder on is that Tasmania is the only state to have projected negative growth by 2051(SA may be in the same boat).

[This message has been edited by happy hawker (edited 21 January 2001).]
 
Good topic Devo!!!!!!

Which club do you support? MMmmmmmmm

Melbourne, Vic will always be #1 because it is the home of footy and the AFL should always be mindful of that fact.

It took nearly 2 decades for Sydneysiders to acknowledge our game and to stop calling it 'aerial ping-pong' but they are still in the minority. Sydney is Rugby League territory. How long did it take for Melburnians to understand and warm to rugby league's Storm?

Brisbane - and parts of Queensland may be different because of the number of ex Vics and pepple from other footy states choosing to live there.

The AFL must remember that relocating or merging team/teams in tradional footy states against the will of the supporters will be detrimental to AFL. The will alienate grassroot supporters - the people that make the embrace our great game.

Michele

NMFC 1869
 
Just a snippet folks - Southport Football club have resubmitted their Application for an AFL license. Their infrastructure is now in place to support a team.

They apparently have been given an indication that approval is going to be granted in the not-so-distant future. Apparently the last hurdle is on the AFL's side, in deciding which team or teams to court in the 'relocation' agreement. It has been agreed that they are not going to aim to start a new time, just relocate a struggling team.

And no I am not trying to stir shit - this info came from the footy club last week.
 
Well Happy Hawker, all I can say is that the Bureau has either revised it's projections or misprinted their information.
Their 1999 publication states clearly on current growth rates within the next 50 years, the 'Greater Brisbane metropolitan area' will have a greater population than the 'Greater Melbourne metroplitan area'. I certainly wasn't referring to the "City of Melbourne", as opposed to the City of Brisbane" if that was what you were implying by your reference to the Docklands.

Thanks Dannii, if this has come out this is at last public confirmation of what people connected with the Lions and the QSFL have been telling me unofficially for quite some time now. Some of it has been in the media as well...so it really shouldn't be that much of a surprise.
 
Perhaps an indication of the current strength of AFL would be that every other sport has switched to summe to aviod competing against it

The exception is NRL which has it's own strongholds. Witness the outcry and numbers of protesters over South Sydney. Far more than turned out to support the Hawks or Melbourne when they were in trouble
 
Roylion, all I can say is that you check the bureau of statistics website and read the same info which I did.
 
Originally posted by tim:
While the UK does have 92 professional teams it is a spurious comparison since of those 92 only 4 or 5 can ever seriously hope to win the Premier Division title. The 16 AFL teams all have an opportunity to win the title due to the draft and salary cap. The VFL, SANFL and WAFL teams aren't far from being professional and being equivalent to the UK Division 1, 2 and 3. Including them takes us to 50 professional or near professional teams (and apologies to the more professional of the other clubs in other leagues) in a population less than a third of the UK. We're also supporting 14 professional Rugby League clubs, and 3 professional Super12 Rugby clubs - most of whom provide stern competition to the Swans and Lions in terms of corporate dollars and bums on seats.

This arguement makes no sense. I disagree with the idea that everyone must be equal, as we get rid of the underdog. So why not have two divisions of AFL football? I'd rather have a team with no hope of winning the premiership than no team at all, which is what happened with Fitzroy.

Have an AFL second division.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Survival of the AFL

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top