Teen Wolf
Norm Smith Medallist
- Jul 5, 2011
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What a cop out. Anybody who sincerely feels that way about the show is letting themselves down by tuning in next season.
FTA-TV Survivor Season 39: Island of the Idols
- Thread starter eth-dog
- Start date
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Managed to avoid spoilers the last few days and caught up last night. The right outcome I feel. Even though I felt dean had the better final tribal council if that makes sense.
Haven’t watched the reunion and not sure if I will, was only interested in tuning in if they address the Dan stuff and allow Kellee an opportunity to speak about it.
Haven’t watched the reunion and not sure if I will, was only interested in tuning in if they address the Dan stuff and allow Kellee an opportunity to speak about it.
If you can have an idol at Final 5 I think there should an idol nullifier available as well.
FFS, they love that boston rob campaigner.
Shell
Premium Platinum
Yeah it was pretty sickening to watch.
nobbyiscool
Cancelled
WWE Board
Goosed
Sweet F.A Sikh Volunteers Charity Match
Tasmanian Team
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Armchair Endzone Major Comp Champion
- Aug 11, 2006
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I don't really expect that anyone will engage with this having moved onto Australian All-Stars and Winners at War. But having done something really dumb over the last few days I wanted to post some thoughts.
I thought while watching WaW last week that, if I'm to be the feminist ally that I think I am, that includes engaging with uncomfortable topics.
So I went back and watched this series. I didn't see anything from the Kellee/Jamal elimination up to the final (after I knew that Dan had been booted from the show) at the time.
Possibly more disgusting than the way that Kellee's accusations were ignored, and more gross than production's failure to deal with Dan (not even telling players the basis of the conversations about "boundaries") is the way that, after that Jamal was eliminated, the whole sexual harassment issue was swept under the rug until Dan was eventually thrown out. It speaks to CBS' ongoing failure to deal with sexual harassment allegations that they failed Kellee so badly and then ignored the issue.
In the lead up to that scene with Kellee where they broke the fourth wall, during the conversation with Missy, they broke with convention and started showing Dan's inappropriateness not during the scope of the episode (ie. ~3 days), but from the whole series. So they knew it was happening. If not at the time, at least during editing.
This whole series was tainted by and overshadowed their failure to act. Given what happened during and since the series, I don't imagine that this series will ever be spoken about again. None of these players - including Kellee and Jamal - will ever be invited back. It'll be stricken from the record as much as it can be.
Given the aforementioned record that CBS has with sexual harassment across programs and management, it never would've happened - but you could make a strong argument that the rest of this series shouldn't have aired. Despite what existed on camera, production clearly weren't willing to believe Kellee at the time and cancel the show while they were in Fiji (which is on them for not believing her, and for putting the show ahead of its participants); but in the wake of what happened after the Kellee/Jamal elimination aired, and knowing that they would eventually throw Dan out later on, it might've been more responsible for them to cancel the series and just give everyone that made the merge an equal amount of money, with a possible reunion that discussed the issue.
Extreme? Probably. But in a show that's constantly trumpeting all it's firsts, what a powerful statement - that "given CBS' and Survivor's failure to adequately address this situation at the time, we're packing it in and we'll be back bigger and better than ever with Winners at War after a reunion episode where we will explore issues of sexual harassment, respect and male entitlement."
It might've at least given some of the players who weren't implicated in what happened before Kellee's elimination - Kellee, Jamal, Noura, Dean, Tommy, Janet, Elaine (maybe) - an opportunity to come back in a future series that wasn't completely poisoned by the show's failure to deal with something so seismic. Cos as I said, I don't expect anyone from this series will ever be invited back because they're all tainted by the failures of this series that, for the most part, were not of their making.
A final thing that wasn't really mentioned at the time - all the commentary (including possibly mine, I haven't been back to check) was about the damage Missy and Elizabeth had done to women by making false accusations... except that isn't what happened. In earlier episodes, Elizabeth in particular had spoken in confessionals about being uncomfortable with him. Her crime wasn't concocting a false accusation - it was selling out herself, Kellee and women everywhere because she thought a million dollars was more important than being honest about the creepy prick.
I don't really have any summation here. I just wanted to write something having watched my "missing episodes", and to reiterate that with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe this series ever should've aired, at least not past the point that the Kellee/Jamal elimination had aired and they'd realised how badly they ****ed the whole situation (again, knowing that Dan would later be booted. They had to know that this fact would highlight how badly they handled the situation.)
I thought while watching WaW last week that, if I'm to be the feminist ally that I think I am, that includes engaging with uncomfortable topics.
So I went back and watched this series. I didn't see anything from the Kellee/Jamal elimination up to the final (after I knew that Dan had been booted from the show) at the time.
Possibly more disgusting than the way that Kellee's accusations were ignored, and more gross than production's failure to deal with Dan (not even telling players the basis of the conversations about "boundaries") is the way that, after that Jamal was eliminated, the whole sexual harassment issue was swept under the rug until Dan was eventually thrown out. It speaks to CBS' ongoing failure to deal with sexual harassment allegations that they failed Kellee so badly and then ignored the issue.
In the lead up to that scene with Kellee where they broke the fourth wall, during the conversation with Missy, they broke with convention and started showing Dan's inappropriateness not during the scope of the episode (ie. ~3 days), but from the whole series. So they knew it was happening. If not at the time, at least during editing.
This whole series was tainted by and overshadowed their failure to act. Given what happened during and since the series, I don't imagine that this series will ever be spoken about again. None of these players - including Kellee and Jamal - will ever be invited back. It'll be stricken from the record as much as it can be.
Given the aforementioned record that CBS has with sexual harassment across programs and management, it never would've happened - but you could make a strong argument that the rest of this series shouldn't have aired. Despite what existed on camera, production clearly weren't willing to believe Kellee at the time and cancel the show while they were in Fiji (which is on them for not believing her, and for putting the show ahead of its participants); but in the wake of what happened after the Kellee/Jamal elimination aired, and knowing that they would eventually throw Dan out later on, it might've been more responsible for them to cancel the series and just give everyone that made the merge an equal amount of money, with a possible reunion that discussed the issue.
Extreme? Probably. But in a show that's constantly trumpeting all it's firsts, what a powerful statement - that "given CBS' and Survivor's failure to adequately address this situation at the time, we're packing it in and we'll be back bigger and better than ever with Winners at War after a reunion episode where we will explore issues of sexual harassment, respect and male entitlement."
It might've at least given some of the players who weren't implicated in what happened before Kellee's elimination - Kellee, Jamal, Noura, Dean, Tommy, Janet, Elaine (maybe) - an opportunity to come back in a future series that wasn't completely poisoned by the show's failure to deal with something so seismic. Cos as I said, I don't expect anyone from this series will ever be invited back because they're all tainted by the failures of this series that, for the most part, were not of their making.
A final thing that wasn't really mentioned at the time - all the commentary (including possibly mine, I haven't been back to check) was about the damage Missy and Elizabeth had done to women by making false accusations... except that isn't what happened. In earlier episodes, Elizabeth in particular had spoken in confessionals about being uncomfortable with him. Her crime wasn't concocting a false accusation - it was selling out herself, Kellee and women everywhere because she thought a million dollars was more important than being honest about the creepy prick.
I don't really have any summation here. I just wanted to write something having watched my "missing episodes", and to reiterate that with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe this series ever should've aired, at least not past the point that the Kellee/Jamal elimination had aired and they'd realised how badly they ****ed the whole situation (again, knowing that Dan would later be booted. They had to know that this fact would highlight how badly they handled the situation.)
