Sussan Ley - how loong?

[geoffjennings79]

Might as well have sent Fat Gina and got instructions directly from the horse's mouth.

Canavan is one of several Gerry Gees to "Ron Blaskett" Rinehart.

 

[Festerz]

Article in the Age saying 1/3 of voters want to scrap Net Zero. Seems convenient timing ahead of the Lib decision today

Would love to see a poll from the mainstream media (and that includes their social media partners) on what % of people by age group actually understand net zero and what keeping it or not means for Australia and the world.

But that would mean they actually take social responsibility for informing voters of the facts and consequences surrounding key public policy issues facing Australia as opposed to being part of the political gaming process that is forever stuck in fighting endless culture wars.

And then they have the temerity to stoke public outrage about successive governments being 'too timid' or 'too lazy' or 'too conflicted' to effect meaningful sustained long term policy change on anything that matters for future generations.

IMO they are as complicit as any politician for our gutless political class and their failure to fight entrenched interests whose self interest sustains intergenerational inequity.

This is as true for Net Zero as it is for integrated housing and taxation policy reform.

 

[Festerz]

That also means 2/3 of voters are in favour.

No it doesn't. Not by a long shot.

The fact that a majority of all those surveyed are either undecided on Net Zero action or want Australia to either abandon action towards meeting the target or do sweet all in the form of positive action to achieve it should send alarm bells ringing to all those people who are most active in wanting meaningful action from Australia on tackling global warming.

IMO it's as much a clarion call to the Greens and ALP as it is to those few members of the LNP who understand the great crisis facing us in the form of global warming, that they are not doing nearly enough to take the Australian voting public with them on this issue.

And, again, that the media organisations who commission these polls take some responsibility for what they tell us about the failure in that messaging.

 

[schneebly111]

Some are undecided. But among every age group, a majority are in favour of it being a target or a goal.

View attachment 2475133

I mean that poll is really strong support for net zero, mild support, mild opposition, strong opposition.

It’s 54-31 for each side.

Yet the SMH/Age reports it as “1/3rd of voters want Net Zero gone”?

Are they really any better than Murdoch with headlines like that?

I guess we now know the Liberal’s new position and the SMh/Age is trying to sell it for them

 

[Sydney Kicker]

Interesting the drop off 35-54
The earning money years

Many in that age group are doing it tough with cost of housing etc and have fallen for the Lib/Nat bs scare campaign about higher energy prices. The way technology is going, hopefully they will understand renewables is both the most economical and the most environmentally friendly option going forward.

 

[schneebly111]

No it doesn't. Not by a long shot.

The fact that a majority of all those surveyed are either undecided on Net Zero action or want Australia to either abandon action towards meeting the target or do sweet all in the form of positive action to achieve it should send alarm bells ringing to all those people who are most active in wanting meaningful action from Australia on tackling global warming.

Where are you seeing that? 54% want Net zero as a legal target or aimed target. You can’t say that aiming for Net Zero as an “aspiration” can be translated to “abandon or do SFA”. it’s more “mild” support than strong support. They outrank the drop Net Zero side completely 54-31.

 

[schneebly111]

Kos has a good analysis of the poll. Either way it’s bad news for the Coalition

 

[Festerz]

Where are you seeing that? 54% want Net zero as a legal target or aimed target. You can’t say that aiming for Net Zero as an “aspiration” can be translated to “abandon or do SFA”. it’s more “mild” support than strong support. They outrank the drop Net Zero side completely 54-31.

Not only can I say it but I did say it. And here's why.

Take a step back from looking at the % numbers as a mathematical exercise and consider what the issue is here. I'm saying that having a target as 'aspirational' when climate experts are telling us that by virtually every key metric, efforts to fight climate change are going too slowly to reduce global warming, according to findings by a coalition of climate groups. In some cases, things are moving in the wrong direction.

New Report Finds Efforts to Slow Climate Change Are Working—Just Not Fast Enough

By virtually every key metric, efforts to fight climate change are going too slowly, according to findings by a coalition of climate groups. In some cases, things are moving in the wrong direction.

www.wired.com

Stating the obvious here. But this is one of the most important policy issues facing Australia and the globe.

Having an 'aspirational' target that is not supported by realistic measures to ensure those targets are met within a specified timeframe to achieve the specific policy outcomes are completely meaningless and just a small step above the 'do nothing' category. It is doing SFA and a path to failure.

We don't have simply an 'aspirational' target to reduce smoking deaths or deaths and injuries from vehicle accidents. We take action to meeting those targets by rigorous research and legislated regulations. And if the action to achieve those targets then we should insist governments make the necessary policy changes to ensure they do.

IMO supporting a net zero target means supporting positive and sustained urgent action to achieve it and constant measuring and repositioning to ensure they are working.

And the urgency of the climate change crisis means that we can't just wave off the negative polling amongst the over 50s as being inconsequential as we do on so many other policy areas. We can't just wait for these older folks to die off. Their support is critical to getting the political support to take action.

 

[Northalives]

Alex Hawke, the far, far, as far as the eye can see right winger is manoeuvring for the leadership. He will represent himself as the "in-between" Hastie/Taylor/Price and Ley and other pretentious small "l" idiots.

He'll do a Morrison and just slime his way through the middle.

 

[QuietB]

Article in the Age saying 1/3 of voters want to scrap Net Zero. Seems convenient timing ahead of the Lib decision today

Boomers made up 33% of voters at the last election

 

[geoffjennings79]

Boomers made up 33% of voters at the last election

I'm Gen X (just) but most of my close friends are "boomers". Fairly large circle of 40-odd people, known each other in some cases for over 50 years. Apart from one couple, I'd struggle to name any others who don't support net zero, quite a few of us would lean Green, most of the rest prefer an ALP govt to the alternative.

I'm not a fan of rash generalisations...

 

[QuietB]

I'm Gen X (just) but most of my close friends are "boomers". Fairly large circle of 40-odd people, known each other in some cases for over 50 years. Apart from one couple, I'd struggle to name any others who don't support net zero, quite a few of us would lean Green, most of the rest prefer an ALP govt to the alternative.

I'm not a fan of rash generalisations...

Fair enough. My comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

However, my parents generation are boomers and whilst it is a generalisation they would largely repeat Sky/HS/3AW as gospel. Their views are largely formed by consuming legacy media, they lap it all up from The Voice to immigration (ironically lots of them are immigrants) to climate policy and whatever else. And worse they are almost impossible to have a rational discussion with.

I know it is not all boomers but there are so many who are like this.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Fair enough. My comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

However, my parents generation are boomers and whilst it is a generalisation they would largely repeat Sky/HS/3AW as gospel. Their views are largely formed by consuming legacy media, they lap it all up from The Voice to immigration (ironically lots of them are immigrants) to climate policy and whatever else. And worse they are almost impossible to have a rational discussion with.

I know it is not all boomers but there are so many who are like this.

My parents were migrants. Never listened to 3AW (Dad had 3AK on constantly for years though). They voted for Whitlam, then Fraser. Since Hawke/Keating, they've never voted LNP. Dad's not around anymore, but Mum was a big supporter of the Voice - helps her son in law and couple of grand daughters are indigenous. She's always been supportive of environmental causes, especially when I had a long association with Greenpeace when I was younger.

But yeah, I get that I, my friends and my parents are possibly outliers. But I also worked in rural tertiary education for years, and virtually everyone my age or older at that institution was a progressive.

So I'm not disputing there are many boomers fitting your characterisation... but there are also many who don't. The Vietnam protest marches showed that it wasn't only young Australians who objected to govt policies that are outdated or out of touch with society.

 

[Kyptastic]

Gone by Christmas

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Conservatives win this one, but it could lose them the war

It was only a week ago that the moderates in the Liberal Party were flexing their muscle privately (and some publicly), threatening a divorce with the Nationals and to walk the plank if net zero was dumped. Neither threat ever materialised.

www.abc.net.au

It's only a matter of time, we've entered the endgame.

 

[schneebly111]

View attachment 2478272

Gone by Christmas

Why would the moderates back a hard right conservative? What are his chances of bringing back city votes vs Ley?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Why would the moderates back a hard right conservative? What are his chances of bringing back city votes vs Ley?

They wouldn't, but Ley only won the leadership vote because Kapterian was projected to win her seat. She didn't, so Ley won't have the numbers in any future vote.

If I were a moderate, I'd quit the party if Hastie or Taylor became leader, they guarantee a loss of more city seats at the next election.

 

[nut]

They wouldn't, but Ley only won the leadership vote because Kapterian was projected to win her seat. She didn't, so Ley won't have the numbers in any future vote.

If I were a moderate, I'd quit the party if Hastie or Taylor became leader, they guarantee a loss of more city seats at the next election.

Yep the moderates… if they have any conviction at all, would quit. But being a member of the Party of Self interest they are waiting for their entitled job after politics and won’t risk that at all… so they’ll sink with the ship.

Even Sussan Ley will lose her seat next election to an Independent called Milthorpe.. making both sides of the Murray orange.

I’m starting to think Skynews is actually a Labor creation… designed to destroy the Liberal moderates.

 

[Golden_6]

This whole debacle couldn't have been more predictable.

Ley has been setup to fail from the beginning. A placeholder until they installed Hastie ahead of the 2027 election.

 

[Gavin Excell]

This whole debacle couldn't have been more predictable.

Ley has been setup to fail from the beginning. A placeholder until they installed Hastie ahead of the 2027 election.

Strategically it would be a mistake for Hastie to assume the leadership this far out from an election. He'd be better off letting Ley take the blows for a while yet

 

[Saint]

Strategically it would be a mistake for Hastie to assume the leadership this far out from an election. He'd be better off letting Ley take the blows for a while yet

Better to let somebody else use the knife, then emerge with the spoils.

Seems like that's the approach of all of the prospective heirs to the throne. Nobody wants to wield the knife, but they all want to do a Morrison and pop up at the last moment and win the leadership.

The question is: Is there a party to unite across a divide or is it just reactionary conservatives left?

If Ley quits her seat after being rolled (why wouldn't she?), the Libs would probably lose the seat to an Independent or a National.