Analysis Swanny - The difference for Buckley

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Spatfers

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Looking at our decline over the past 6 years, there has been many factors, but possibly none more so than the absence of Dane Swan.

Swanny was one of our greats and his influence was always going to be missed, but perhaps the most by Buckley himself. Some stats that paint the picture:

Dane Swan
2013 - 14 wins, in best players 12 times, most disposals 9 times. (played 23 games)
2014 - 11 wins, in best players 5 times, most disposals twice. (played 17 games)
2015 - 10 wins, in best players 8 times, most disposals 5 times. (played 21 games)

I couldn't find match reports for 2012 that had best players (useless afl.com!), but considering he came third in the Brownlow (and might have won it had he not got himself suspended for 2 games), I'd assume it was a pretty good season.

Perhaps more worrying than this is that this is the worst start to a season under Buckley, last year without Swanny was only 1 win better. 2015 and 2014 with Swanny we'd won 5 in the first 8 rounds. That doesn't bode well for a comeback.

As the old saying goes 'you don't know what you've got til it's gone'. Looks like when Swanny went down in that horror show against Sydney in round 1 last year, Buckley's coaching career went down with him.
 

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Swanny may have helped us win an extra game or two in 2016, making us a 11-11 team at best, he wasn't the reason we missed finals, and either was the coach.

I don't think one player, one coach, one sports science director, one CEO, one president, one head recruiter or any individual can be singled out as a reason for our decline.

It's a mixture of it all.

As for Swanny, in 2017 he would most likely be thinking about retirement at the end of this season (if he hadn't of got that injury last year of course). There wasn't much future left in the great man anyway, I reckon the injury robbed him of about 40 more games, that's all.
 

Spatfers

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Swanny may have helped us win an extra game or two in 2016, making us a 11-11 team at best, he wasn't the reason we missed finals, and either was the coach.

I don't think one player, one coach, one sports science director, one CEO, one president, one head recruiter or any individual can be singled out as a reason for our decline.

It's a mixture of it all.

As for Swanny, in 2017 he would most likely be thinking about retirement at the end of this season (if he hadn't of got that injury last year of course). There wasn't much future left in the great man anyway, I reckon the injury robbed him of about 40 more games, that's all.

The first sentence does say there are many factors, I just think losing Swanny was a fairly significant one.
 
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Swanny was a huge loss, i think both him being out on the field playing and mentally for the players.

I think Swanny would of been loved around the club and for the players to see him go down the way he did it would of hurt.

In saying that as Matty said... it's a mixture of a lot of factors, not just one player.
 
Swanny was a loss no doubt but Collingwood has been hit by a sh*t-storm.

The Malthouse->Buckley transition, the player unrest, the injuries, the recruiting etc. I wouldn't know where to begin...
 

peter9789

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Oh god .... another thread on Buckley. All we need is for Mick Malthouse to be introduced into the thread.

....wait I just did.


Bugger


I cant wait for Bucks to depart just so I can enter Big Footy without having to read the endless threads on the demise of Buckley
 

DuckToaster

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Oh god .... another thread on Buckley. All we need is for Mick Malthouse to be introduced into the thread.

....wait I just did.


Bugger


I cant wait for Bucks to depart just so I can enter Big Footy without having to read the endless threads on the demise of Buckley


They'll be replaced with "Have we made the right choice going forward!?!?!?" threads so I wouldn't get your hopes up for a bigfooty experience devoid of endless threads that go in circles.
 

Spatfers

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where would you guys post if it weren't for these threads...............
 
The first sentence does say there are many factors, I just think losing Swanny was a fairly significant one.
Hey I agree, for seasons 2016 and 2017 losing Dane Swan was a significant loss, but I don't think we play finals in either season even if he's added.

Especially when you consider he was being groomed to play primarily as a forward in 2016, let alone in 2017, his probable final year of footy.
 

cleomenes

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He has been an enormous loss, but trying to connect this to actual games lost doesn't take us anywhere. We can only play the players we have. At the start of the year, I thought we had a good list. Their inability to win when there were virtually no injuries shows I was wrong. It floors me that players who are good kicks lose the ability during games. They look dispirited now, and don't lead or pass with any authority. The long shots from Blair and De Goey last week when they were clear to run show that the confidence in themselves is shot.
 

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35Daicos

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I couldn't find match reports for 2012 that had best players (useless afl.com!), but considering he came third in the Brownlow (and might have won it had he not got himself suspended for 2 games), I'd assume it was a pretty good season.
The excellent Australian Football website does have match reports from 2012 games, with best players from AFL.com.au and The Age, just for future reference:- http://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/afl/138/premiership+season/1/1/2012
 

MarkT2

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We would always be better with Swan than without him but had Buckley kept the playing list together and unified Swan wouldn't have made so much difference since 2012.
 

jackcass

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He has been an enormous loss, but trying to connect this to actual games lost doesn't take us anywhere. We can only play the players we have. At the start of the year, I thought we had a good list. Their inability to win when there were virtually no injuries shows I was wrong. It floors me that players who are good kicks lose the ability during games. They look dispirited now, and don't lead or pass with any authority. The long shots from Blair and De Goey last week when they were clear to run show that the confidence in themselves is shot.

Bit of a misnomer that gets bandied about all too often. Yes we had a majority of the squad in full training at the start of the season but many were coming off compromised preseasons.
 
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Swanny may have helped us win an extra game or two in 2016, making us a 11-11 team at best, he wasn't the reason we missed finals, and either was the coach.

I don't think one player, one coach, one sports science director, one CEO, one president, one head recruiter or any individual can be singled out as a reason for our decline.

It's a mixture of it all.

As for Swanny, in 2017 he would most likely be thinking about retirement at the end of this season (if he hadn't of got that injury last year of course). There wasn't much future left in the great man anyway, I reckon the injury robbed him of about 40 more games, that's all.

Those 40 games have been replaced by the recruitment of Wells. Sad to lose Swanny the way we did but you move on. Wells is actually an upgrade. Not one that happened by design, but by circumstance...but an upgrade regardless.
 
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We would always be better with Swan than without him but had Buckley kept the playing list together and unified Swan wouldn't have made so much difference since 2012.

You still spinning this crap?

In the face of the obvious..... players we have moved on with the arguable exception of Shaw and Beams have not been missed. And both of those two players yielded pretty good trades. And the premiership players who retired would still have retired.

I can only imagine how s**t we would be if we had kept the playing list together.
 
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No SPIN

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We would always be better with Swan than without him but had Buckley kept the playing list together and unified Swan wouldn't have made so much difference since 2012.

This 'keeping the list together" has been completely discredited, and now dropped by virtually by all your like minded anti- Bucks colleagues.

Keep up with the program sport.
 
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Once in a generation type player, would have struggled in the midfield with a lack of two way running...would have been a handy forward though.

Succession planning has him covered though, you will never get like for like but we are fairly well covered in the smalls department. We need another big marking forward to partner Moore...having said that Moore had his best game last week without the support. Quick and precise ball movement helps forwards.
 

DuckToaster

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We would always be better with Swan than without him but had Buckley kept the playing list together and unified Swan wouldn't have made so much difference since 2012.

Oh please.

The following players still call pieland home:

Ben Reid
Steele Sidebottom
Scott Pendlebury
Jarryd Blair
Tyson Goldsack


The following players from 2010 have retired, not a lot you can do about father time:
Alan Toovey
Ben Johnson
Dane Swan
Alan Didak
Luke Ball
Brent Macaffer
Darren Jolly
Leigh brown

The following 8 players were traded/left under free agency:
Harry O' Brian/Heritier Lumumba
Heath Shaw
Sharrod Wellingham
Dayne Beams
Nathan Brown
Chris Dawes
Dale Thomas
Travis Cloke

The only 2 players on that list with any real value are Heath Shaw and Dayne Beams, and I feel we traded them well netting some really good talent out of both trades. An 8 player turnover over a period of 7 years is not exactly the mass exodus people make it out to be. Get real.
 
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Oh please.

The following players still call pieland home:

Ben Reid
Steele Sidebottom
Scott Pendlebury
Jarryd Blair
Tyson Goldsack


The following players from 2010 have retired, not a lot you can do about father time:
Alan Toovey
Ben Johnson
Dane Swan
Alan Didak
Luke Ball
Brent Macaffer
Darren Jolly
Leigh brown

The following 7 players were traded/left under free agency:
Harry O' Brian/Heritier Lumumba
Heath Shaw
Sharrod Wellingham
Dayne Beams
Nathan Brown
Chris Dawes
Dale Thomas
Travis Cloke

The only 2 players on that list with any real value are Heath Shaw and Dayne Beams, and I feel we traded them well netting some really good talent out of both trades. It's not all doom and gloom like you two make it out to be. An 8 player turnover over a period of 7 years is not exactly the mass exodus people make it out to be. Get real.

Plus since then under Buckley we have lost other "quality" players like Freeman Young Kennedy Williams Frost and Seedsman. We also lost Witts - can only have room for one specialist ruck in your side. Shame to lose him.

We have picked up Treloar Crisp Adams Schade Dunn Wells Aish Hoskin Elliott Mayne (cough) White (hmm, still upgrade on Dawes) and picks that have allowed us to land De Goey Grundy Greenwood Scharenburg etc (yeah wasted one on Freeman but traded him quickly out for Aish (effectively) . On the down side we have also wasted some cheap late picks on some rejects that didnt work out (Lynch Armstrong Russell) but didnt cost much either.

All in all some wins some losses but certainly nobody that Buckley has lost off the list has cost us anything once you take the trade into account. And that includes Beams and Shaw. Maybe in time Williams will prove to be a freebie we gave away that we shoudlnt have. But hes a ticking time bomb... good luck to North controlling him. I'd rather Maynard thanks.

Bottom line the quality of the players Collingwood has traded in under Buckley FAR exceeds the quality of the players we have lost
 
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Justlokan

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Plus since then under Buckley we have lost other "quality" players like Freeman Young Kennedy Williams Frost and Seedsman.

We have picked up Treloar Crisp Adams Schade Dunn Wells Aish Hoskin Elliott Mayne (cough) White (hmm, still upgrade on Dawes) and picks that have allowed us to land De Goey Grundy Greenwood Scharenburg etc (yeah wasted one on Freeman but traded him quickly out for Aish (effectively) . On the down side we have also wasted some cheap late picks on some rejects that didnt work out (Lynch Armstrong Russell) but didnt cost much either.

All in all some wins some losses but certainly nobody that Buckley has lost off the list has cost us anything once you take the trade into account. And that includes Beams and Shaw. MAybe in time Williams will prove to be a freebie we gave away.

Bottom line the quality of the players Collingwood has traded in under Buckley FAR exceeds the quality of the players we have lost

Agreed - Bottom line is that list quality isn't the issue. What we have done with that list (ie the coaching/game plan) is what's causing the problems. I'll accept that injuries hit us hard in 2014/15 but that's all.
 
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