Swans Boss says rivals should PAY for poaching Northern academy kids

[SBD Gonzalez]

It’s an emotive, throw the toys out of the cot point and try to get something back in cash or argue about more concessions. All the while getting normal draft picks for “free” from everywhere else. Can’t have it both ways.

While the AFL wages war in the Northern States giving them hand outs, the NRL are coming over to WA so they might want to at minimum make the competition fair.

Like I said mate I’m not commenting on Pridham’s comments for or against.

Simply observing the noteworthy lack of knowledge among a lot of southern states dwellers about the realities on the ground in the two non-footy states.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

That's a reply is from an 8 yr old.

Obviously as a Lions supporter you don't care.


But everyone else certainly puts an asterix against any premier who has or is propped up by unfair AFL policie.

I think I have deciphered what you are trying to say. ‘Everyone else’ as in loser Wet Toast supporters. That’s right, we don’t care, because if you had any knowledge of how Brisbane got to where they are would you wouldn’t be stamping your feet like a child and making out it is some conspiracy. You OK with the policy that handed you an extra first round pick and extra list spots last year? Just because your club is shitful, of their own doing, doesn’t mean you need to spend your time trying to drag down a club that has been there and worked their way out of it, it’s pathetic.

 

[Obeanie1]

Like I said mate I’m not commenting on Pridham’s comments for or against.

Simply observing the noteworthy lack of knowledge among a lot of southern states dwellers about the realities on the ground in the two non-footy states.

And that is why those Northern clubs get significantly more funding distributions to other clubs in traditional states.

A rugby state is a rugby state. No matter which rugby code. So who cares which rugby code the AFL is battling?

The AFL brought in Round zero to help bridge the gap and help.

They fund Northern club more.

And they got academies with a bidding system that was unfair. That's been fixed finally.

And Northern clubs retain priority access. They just need to pay closer to a fair price.

So what exactly are the issues that the Southerners don't get?

 

[Lunchtime]

Sounds like the Northern clubs and a lot of their supporters have become a bit self entitled. Plenty of assistance from the AFL and it's still not enough.

 

[Obeanie1]

I think I have deciphered what you are trying to say. ‘Everyone else’ as in loser Wet Toast supporters. That’s right, we don’t care, because if you had any knowledge of how Brisbane got to where they are would you wouldn’t be stamping your feet like a child and making out it is some conspiracy. You OK with the policy that handed you an extra first round pick and extra list spots last year? Just because your club is shitful, of their own doing, doesn’t mean you need to spend your time trying to drag down a club that has been there and worked their way out of it, it’s pathetic.

That's a childish response based on emotion ignoring the fundamental issue.

I note that for well worded and logical responses you and your mates just ignore those.

And none of you can justify the bidding system remaining as it was.

I've held the same view for over a decade. So nothing really to do with my clubs current state.

Plenty of other clubs and supporters wanted the rorts to stop. Not just me.

It is pretty piss poor that AFL policies allowed the back to back premiers to access more assistance getting players at discounts or for free with no draft cost than the team finishing last.


But you keep on playing the man instead of coming back with anything logical or defensible. .


That says it all really.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And that is why those Northern clubs get significantly more funding distributions to other clubs in traditional states.

A rugby state is a rugby state. No matter which rugby code. So who cares which rugby code the AFL is battling?

The AFL brought in Round zero to help bridge the gap and help.

They fund Northern club more.

And they got academies with a bidding system that was unfair. That's been fixed finally.

And Northern clubs retain priority access. They just need to pay closer to a fair price.

So what exactly are the issues that the Southerners don't get?

Right on cue.

 

[Obeanie1]

Right on cue.

What does it matter which rugby code?

Rugby league v union? Both are competitors of the AFL in Qld and NSW.

We get it. Rugby codes dominate in NSW and Qld.

Please explain why splitting the two Rugby codes is so important in this discussion? More than happy to be educated.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What does it matter which rugby code?

Rugby league v union? Both are competitors of the AFL in Qld and NSW.

We get it. Rugby codes dominate in NSW and Qld.

Please explain why splitting the two Rugby codes is so important in this discussion? More than happy to be educated.

Sorry, busy at work today, but here you go, hope this will suffice:

Rugby and league are completely different mindsets. They are actually competitors with each other. A one-size-fits-all approach won't work. Taking out one will not automatically take out the other; it may make it stronger.

Rugby is the grand old man. (Father of our great game, even!) League is the rebel code. Even a century after its formation, that strain is very strong among its followers. Leaguies love putting shit on the rugby toffs. They see themselves as the outlaws. With that attitude, they're predisposed to be hostile to any other code.

Rugby was amateur for years, because it was the province of moneyed gentlemen. Although it's long since gone pro, there's no denying that rugby still automatically carries an enormous amount of money, privilege and power with it. It's the sport of choice for doctors and lawyers and company CEOs. Winning them over isn't the same as winning over working class fans, or recent immigrants.

Australian Rugby has an international angle second only to Australian soccer (a distant second, but significant nonetheless), so dealing with rugby as a rival is going to require dealing with it more like how soccer is dealt with as a rival.

Then there's the private school/public school code divide, which is completely nonexistent in the southern states. League is almost exclusively played in state schools, rugby is almost exclusively Protestant private schools. (Catholic schools are a mix, loosely divided on class lines). So development pathways need to factor all those variations and complications into strategies.

Then there's the state rivalry aspect. I personally hate that shit; I like every corner of this country, but it's really big in two regards - firstly a lot of NSW and QLD people automatically put shit on anything from the southern states (as indeed, it is reciprocated). They are not going to automatically warm to anything they feel is being imposed on them from down south, no matter how good a product it is (and you and I know footy is simply a superior spectacle, but they are just not swayed by that. They are simply too invested in their chosen codes.)

OK, you're probably already on top of that, but the second, intensifying and complicating elephant in the room is State of Origin - close to the biggest event in the Australian sporting year. A phenomenon. An event so big, at times it even overwhelms the comp that it's founded in. Not only is there nothing comparable in the southern states, it embeds the notion of interstate rivalry into every football-following northerner. Putting shit on what the "Mexicans" play, is thus turbocharged second nature.

Plus, if nothing else, the sheer size of SoO gives the NRL heft far beyond the strength of its H & A season. Without SoO, the AFL could just laugh at Peter v'Landys, but he can punch way above his weight thanks to SoO, and he doesn't shy from doing so.

Then there's the fact that what we're talking about here, is the situation facing us in a mature, crowded sporting market in two states that together represent close enough to half of Australia's total population.

So to simply say "sure, we get it, rugby codes dominate" is missing all the nuance straight away.

Likewise to simply say "northern clubs already get more money; academies, etc, what more do they want?"

I stress I'm not expressing any opinion on Pridham's comments because I have no expertise in that area. But I am saying, from living in NSW all my life, that a lot of the argument we've seen on here is incredibly simplistic and clueless about the realities for footy north of the Murray.

 

[Maddo11]

It matters because because a 25% share of the market in SEQ and "Greater Sydney" is worth more to the league than 90% of the WA market.

The VFL needed WA to bail them out, but now if the league is going to continue to grow then the money is in the largest population centres.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

Rugby and league are completely different mindsets. They are actually competitors with each other. A one-size-fits-all approach won't work. Taking out one will not automatically take out the other; it may make it stronger.

Really great summary.

And there's another important point to add.

The two rugby codes have traditionally been more popular in different parts of Sydney.

Union has tended to be more popular on the north shore (basically the Sydney suburbs north of Sydney Harbour) and the eastern suburbs.

If you look at where the Shute Shield clubs are based (basically the state rugby union comp), they tend to be on the north shore and eastern suburbs.

League has tended to be stronger in the south and west of Sydney.

Why that matters for AFL is because Aussie Rules has tended to be stronger in the parts of Sydney where union is strongest.

(There's a long discussion about how Australian rugby — that's union — has been a basketcase for 20 years. But that's for another day.)

Aussie Rules has made a lot less headway in the parts of Sydney where league dominates.

So the whole point of GWS is to push into the parts of Sydney that are dominated by league.

You could go so far as to argue that before GWS, the AFL didn't compete with the NRL (that's rugby league) in Sydney at all; it was competing against union.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Does he mean “Pay” …



… or does he mean “Pay”?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Dunno what all the fuss is about?

Can anybody cite any other examples in existence where an organisation or person spends their own money on to develop, and which a direct opponent can then take away from them without any recompense?

 

[Obeanie1]

Dunno what all the fuss is about?

Can anybody cite any other examples in existence where an organisation or person spends their own money on to develop, and which a direct opponent can then take away from them without any recompense?

Well its happened previously when other club academy kids couldnt be matched inside the top 40. That was changed two years ago. Prior to that if a clubs academy kid was picked inside 40 they missed out. Eg Lance Collard. Ex Eagles academy and the Saints drafted him inside pick 40. Clubs still invested in academies even though they didnt have full acces, thats been proven already.

And now with the new rules if a club academy kid is rated highly or there are multiple academy kids rated in the 1st round then a club may miss iut if they dont have the picks to match. That applies to all clubs now. Not just the Northern academies.

So from now on unless a club can pay fair value for priority access other clubs can take advantage and draft the player.

Academy access continues to provide priority access. Not discounted access where you then are allowed to pay in loose change.

Fair all round across the competition.

 

[Rail King]

Sorry, busy at work today, but here you go, hope this will suffice:

Rugby and league are completely different mindsets. They are actually competitors with each other. A one-size-fits-all approach won't work. Taking out one will not automatically take out the other; it may make it stronger.

Rugby is the grand old man. (Father of our great game, even!) League is the rebel code. Even a century after its formation, that strain is very strong among its followers. Leaguies love putting shit on the rugby toffs. They see themselves as the outlaws. With that attitude, they're predisposed to be hostile to any other code.

Rugby was amateur for years, because it was the province of moneyed gentlemen. Although it's long since gone pro, there's no denying that rugby still automatically carries an enormous amount of money, privilege and power with it. It's the sport of choice for doctors and lawyers and company CEOs. Winning them over isn't the same as winning over working class fans, or recent immigrants.

Australian Rugby has an international angle second only to Australian soccer (a distant second, but significant nonetheless), so dealing with rugby as a rival is going to require dealing with it more like how soccer is dealt with as a rival.

Then there's the private school/public school code divide, which is completely nonexistent in the southern states. League is almost exclusively played in state schools, rugby is almost exclusively Protestant private schools. (Catholic schools are a mix, loosely divided on class lines). So development pathways need to factor all those variations and complications into strategies.

Then there's the state rivalry aspect. I personally hate that shit; I like every corner of this country, but it's really big in two regards - firstly a lot of NSW and QLD people automatically put shit on anything from the southern states (as indeed, it is reciprocated). They are not going to automatically warm to anything they feel is being imposed on them from down south, no matter how good a product it is (and you and I know footy is simply a superior spectacle, but they are just not swayed by that. They are simply too invested in their chosen codes.)

OK, you're probably already on top of that, but the second, intensifying and complicating elephant in the room is State of Origin - close to the biggest event in the Australian sporting year. A phenomenon. An event so big, at times it even overwhelms the comp that it's founded in. Not only is there nothing comparable in the southern states, it embeds the notion of interstate rivalry into every football-following northerner. Putting shit on what the "Mexicans" play, is thus turbocharged second nature.

Plus, if nothing else, the sheer size of SoO gives the NRL heft far beyond the strength of its H & A season. Without SoO, the AFL could just laugh at Peter v'Landys, but he can punch way above his weight thanks to SoO, and he doesn't shy from doing so.

Then there's the fact that what we're talking about here, is the situation facing us in a mature, crowded sporting market in two states that together represent close enough to half of Australia's total population.

So to simply say "sure, we get it, rugby codes dominate" is missing all the nuance straight away.

Likewise to simply say "northern clubs already get more money; academies, etc, what more do they want?"

I stress I'm not expressing any opinion on Pridham's comments because I have no expertise in that area. But I am saying, from living in NSW all my life, that a lot of the argument we've seen on here is incredibly simplistic and clueless about the realities for footy north of the Murray.

What does any of this have to do with Pridhams comments?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What does any of this have to do with Pridhams comments?

Um, I was responding to a poster who wanted more insight into the situation in the non-footy states.

 

[Sphynx]

I’d be fine with that.

But each Northern academy side has to pay the bidding club $2m every time they match a bid in the first line and gain priority access to a player excluded from the draft pool…..$200k for all other rounds.

Only fair.

Has to be included in the soft cap/salary cap over a period also.

 

[Obeanie1]

Like I said mate I’m not commenting on Pridham’s comments for or against.

Simply observing the noteworthy lack of knowledge among a lot of southern states dwellers about the realities on the ground in the two non-footy states.

I haven't read anything yet that is jumping off the pages as noteworthy.

League is the newer code. Union the older traditional code.

Some areas are stronger between rugby codes.

Do the AFL care if the opposition rugby code is league or union?

What would be interesting is explaining how the rugby codes sign and pay juniors Yeats before they are eligible to play.

That is a massive advantage in attracting elite young talent to rugby instead of AFL.

AFL at this point cannot compete with that.

I don't know the details but that's my understanding. Rugby clubs sign kids and pay them much earlier.

 

[Maddo11]

I’d be fine with that.

But each Northern academy side has to pay the bidding club $2m every time they match a bid in the first line and gain priority access to a player excluded from the draft pool…..$200k for all other rounds.

Only fair.

Has to be included in the soft cap/salary cap over a period also.

So pay to develop them, pay additional draft capital, and pay 10x $ what (hypothetically) is owed.

Very fair.

 

[Sphynx]

So pay to develop them, pay additional draft capital, and pay 10x $ what (hypothetically) is owed.

Very fair.

You don’t pay additional draft capital.

You get a discount of draft capital.

You don’t really pay to develop them either.

Also, it’s not exactly a “draft” either. They aren’t open to the pool. Only you, you need to actually compensate the rest of the competition for this advantage, which you currently don’t in any meaningful way.

Either that or a lottery system like the Japanese do in their sports.

If multiple teams bid on a player in the deaft, the player is then lotto’d to the winner.

 

[Maddo11]

You don’t pay additional draft capital.
.

Sorry, Yes I could have worded that more clearly, but I was referring to the recent changes where more draft capital is required than previously.

 

[Sphynx]

Sorry, Yes I could have worded that more clearly, but I was referring to the recent changes where more draft capital is required than previously.

Cents on the dollar up from penny’s on the dollar in a closed market, in reality.

 

[Syd]

Cents on the dollar up from penny’s on the dollar in a closed market, in reality.

Cents are Pennies, so same/same?