Autopsy Swans fly high against the Hawks

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Wolftone said:
Because Reid is a crap back. That is why they only play him forward. Sure he is good as the extra in the backs but anyone can play as a loose person in defence. A few years ago when he was put back there after playing extra for most of the season he played I think 3, maybe 4 games, he was terrible in 2 of those. He got toweled up by every decent forward. He is simply not a back. Melican is not as terrible as you seem to think. He's solid is Lewis. Sure he gets beaten by the giants, that is because he wasn't drafted as a, nor did he play, key defender in the juniors. he was drafted as a running half back who could take a third forward. He has the height and weight but the role of minding monsters is not a natural thing for him. Intercept, run off and sting sides with good delivery yes, monster minding, no. I prefer him on the smaller of the key forwards but he would be ok for McStay, although Mcinerney would be a longshot.

The other option is Gould, who is only 191 and 97. He lacks a lot of height. But in the reserves he has been playing on much taller forwards and blunting them. he has kept some pretty good players very quiet while still getting plenty of ball himself with intercept marking. Has the ability to take small or tall and is really quite fast, with fantastic closing speed and a takle to die for. I mean that literally, if they get tackled by this guy they nearly die. He uses every bit of his 97 kilos in the tackle or bump. In one preseason game last year he hit a bloke who went 5 metres through the air, it was a wonderful, clean bump. But his main game is intercepting. So he might be the Paddy replacement as that is what Paddy does.
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I am going to go insane with Melican and his terrible defending, just play Gould if that's the option. However against Brisbane it's a risk.
 
Wolftone said:
yes that's true. Slow starts are worrying.
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Yep now it still is a relatively young midfield. Probably why I feel we need to play Kennedy this week and in the midfield, not at HB. This is the week to go safe.
 

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Dubai Quacker said:
I’d hoped Florent would be a solid midfielder capable of the odd standout game.

Which is exactly what he is.

I’m happy he’s a Swan.
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I am a bit worried about his form at this time. But one thing he has changed immensely is his decision making. He is making god decisions and therefore using the ball well. Just like to see him get it 20-30 times/match
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
If this means Bell stays I might go fully nuts.

I just can't see us making a zillion changes when we are playing a top side.
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I'd be going...

In: Gould, Paps, JPK
Out: Paddy, Logan, Bell

It's a shorter side, but with JPK in, it means more time for Parker up forward, Heeney can stay there as a target. Paps in his first game back can stay close to goal, Ronke can roam. Not opposed to Reid coming in but unless Paps isn't ready, less of a priority. If COR seems up to speed in training, worth consideration.
 
Bloods86 said:
I'd be going...

In: Gould, Paps, JPK
Out: Paddy, Logan, Bell

It's a shorter side, but with JPK in, it means more time for Parker up forward, Heeney can stay there as a target. Paps in his first game back can stay close to goal, Ronke can roam. Not opposed to Reid coming in but unless Paps isn't ready, less of a priority.
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Yeah I like those changes and it suits the team going forward too.
 
caesar88 said:
They are the most frustrating for mine because they are the two who if they find form can most turn our fortunes in our favour, but neither look like doing so atm.

Florent is nearly 24. He's averaging 15 disposals this year. His average across his career is 17. So he is actually performing below his career average at a time when we need him to break out beyond his career average and go to the next level. As you say he looks pretty good when he has it. I'm just not sure I agree that finding the ball isn't hard. To me it requires a certain je ne sais quoi that will allow you to be where the ball is. The knack of knowing where he needs to be to get the ball. It's an underrated quality that isn't easy to learn and I'm not sure Florent has it, even at his best.

As for Rowbottom, his kicking is the least of his concerns. I don't know where his head is at but from what I've seen it's not on AFL right now. Have said it pretty much all year so far, he looks sluggish and indifferent to proceedings. He is unrecognisable to the player from his first few years who turned himself into a mainstay of the 22 with his tenacity, confidence and intensity. All of that is absent at the moment. Get that back and you'd be surprised how naturally the things like skills and decision-making will follow.
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I think Rowbottom is doing plenty in the packs. He is very good inside and much of what he does goes unnoticed. But his kick out of a pack chaos balls just haven't found our players in the forward 50. Now, I don't think that is all his fault. Too many times our forwards were playing behind their opponents. This happened even when players were free and kicked forward. They were standing far too far back. I can remember Blakey at one stage powering between left wing and centre, he looked up and tried to kick to the forwards but the only players he hit were Hawthorn. Why? Because all the forwards were far too far back and the Hawks set up the wall. We need to have one forward at least on a shorter distance from the centrs. Say true half forward, not all starting from the goal square.
 
Citrus22 said:
I was talking about last weeks match, 5 turnovers this week isn't great, 2 clangers absolutely fine (Clayton Oliver averages 6 a game this year, decent player I'd say). Lloyd also had 493 metres gained today (2nd only to Mills), I'd consider that one of the important stats in modern footy.
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It is a stat that kick-ins would account for about half the metres. Let’s not get deluded, we’ve seen Lloyd play a LOT better than this. I am still backing him to be in good form come finals time and we will certainly need him in good touch by then.
 

Hawthorn v Sydney​

10 Callum Mills
6 Chad Warner
5 Lance Franklin
4 Peter Ladhams
3 Luke Parker
1 Errol Gulden
1 Jaeger O'Meara

LEADERBOARD​

37 Andrew Brayshaw FRE
35 Patrick Cripps CARL
31 Callum Mills SYD
31 Clayton Oliver MELB
28 Christian Petracca MELB
27 Jack Higgins STK
24 Darcy Parish ESS


​
1​
2​
3​
4​
5​
6​
Total​
Callum Mills​
​
8​
​
3​
10​
10​
31​
Isaac Heeney​
5​
10​
​
​
2​
​
17​
Justin Mcinerney​
​
​
​
10​
5​
​
15​
Luke Parker​
10​
​
​
​
​
3​
13​
Peter Ladhams​
​
​
​
7​
​
4​
11​
Oliver Florent​
5​
​
​
3​
​
​
8​
Chad Warner​
​
1​
​
​
​
6​
7​
Lance Franklin​
​
​
​
​
​
5​
5​
Tom McCartin​
​
2​
​
​
​
​
2​
Patrick McCartin​
​
2​
​
​
​
​
2​
Jake Lloyd​
​
​
​
1​
1​
​
2​
Errol Gulden​
​
1​
​
​
​
1​
2​
Nick Blakey​
1​
​
​
​
​
​
1​

www.afl.com.au

Coaches' votes, R6: Swan rises to third, Cripps on the charge

The AFLCA votes are in for round six
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
 
Last edited:
zyzzbruh said:
He's kicked multiple bags already so hardly a surprise. For someone who came in and had a massive impact in his first season off a rookie list, I find it odd that so many turned against him within a season when he was not even that bad and part of a pretty average team at the time.
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I don't understand people turning against him. He had some injury worries. He has not had a pre-season, until this year, for 3 years. He had stress fractures, shoulder, strained medial and a calf injury. Poor bugger. He always had two things from day one, an intensity for the pill and talent. He never gives up. i love how, even when things were not going his way last year and he lost confidence, he never gave up. He kept fighting to get better. The kid had to be told to not hit so hard in his first intra-club trial. He was so intense. He is also super fast. With him, Papley, Heens, Will all bloody fast and good tacklers, the ball should never leave our forward line. We just have to talk Paps into bothering to chase. When he does they hardly ever get away. I remember a game where Ronke & Paps played together, they had 13 tackles between them and ran down players most times. I can remember Ronke running a player down through the centre of the ground, he got an in the back against him, it wasn't. It was definitely a great tackle. The next time he did the same thing ran a player down and got the free with exactly the same tackle. The first umpire was blindsided and just thought he landed on the back.

Paps, Wicks and Ronke can't play in the same side, unless Will is out as you say. I think at this stage Paps, when he gets match fit, and Ronke will be our small forwards. Man, they are going to torch some teams. People are saying paps will take ball away from Ronke. I don't agree. They will each play one side of a pack and whoever gets the crumb gets it. Both will be lethal no matter which side it comes out. Imagine trying to match both of these guys up if they are in top form?
 
zyzzbruh said:
That was as a sub to be fair after a year off. He became a whipping boy in his 2nd year because he wasn't kicking five every week and we were spoilt with a gun team since 2012. And he ain't no first round draft pick unlike some. Anyways, he's back and is showing the talent he clearly has so it's onwards and upwards from here.
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As I said before he and Paps, if both fit, will be lethal. We have a thing about picking natural footballers as Rookies. This guy crumbs packs as good as any of the best small forwards in the game. he can also play wing or inside mid. i love how since his body is right he has bounced back.
 

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zyzzbruh said:
Re Florent - you can't just expect an upward trajectory of possessions. If every player in the squad was getting a preferable amount of possessions we'd be breaking the all time game disposals record. The average is 350 disposals a game so that needs to be evened out amongst the whole squad. I'm more concerned re quality of possessions and he has improved in that aspect, his impact with those 15 possies is more pronounced than what it has ever been albeit a couple of average games.
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He only got 9 yesterday. He got 16 the week before. I am concerned because he had increased his disposals, and the accuracy, toward the end of last year and looked to be going to the next level. he has gone backward. I think it is mainly because they are putting a defensive winger on him as a tag. he needs to learn how to cope with the extra attention.
 
Superstar swan said:
In regards to paddy, how much movement do the all have. The repeated concussions is leaving them wide open for a law suite in the future. Would they /can They make him sign a waiver or could they go down the path of deregistration?
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He was not concussed as such yesterday according to the coach and other reports. But it is an issue of course.
 
Dubai Quacker said:
Yep, Mills and Heeney are probably our only players currently in the "elite" bracket. And maybe Papley when he returns to full match fitness.

Having said that, I think Florent would get a game with just about every AFL club. He's no slouch & whilst I'd love for him to progress to "elite" status, I can readily see him being an important cog in our next premiership.

Just on defence - I actually think Freo have the best back 6 at present. Slot a few A-graders into their mids & forward-line & they'll become a real threat.
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I reckon Blakey is getting up there. Certainly from a "hurt" perspective.
 
Ticky009 said:
And who exactly will we be replacing Lloyd with? Have you not watched our VFL matches? There are non breaking down the door at the moment and Fox & Cor are not fit. Melican is not a like for like replacement at all and he hasn't even been close to best in VFL.

Wicks can't play down back and his form has been so poor in the VFL I wouldn't use him to replace anyone.
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Lloyd is not that bad. Just bad for Lloyd. i mean he set pretty high standards. Gould, I believe, will come in. He will replace paddy. does basically the same job in the Twos. Has been consistently good all year so far. Was a standout in a losing side against the Bullants apparently.
 
McRobie said:
might be a case of changing his role, atm he is floating kicks, defending poorly and his kick ins are dreadful, he might need to move further up the ground or something, maybe midfield, whatever, but something has to change, he is awful.
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i don't think lloyd is dreadful at all. He has popped up a couple that gave away goals. That is not good and he needs to make better decisions. But his defending is not too bad. He hasn't had lots of goals kicked on him, unlike Harry who has been taken to the cleaners in nearly every match.
 
the hypnotoad said:
better than melbourne's? big call ... i think melbourne's defence and gawn are the cornerstones ... and of course they have arguably the best player in the league at the moment in petracca
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I'm probably heavily influenced by the 2-goal nightmare that was 2020 at Optus - but Freo are a very tough side to score against.

A back 6 of Luke Ryan, James Aish, Alex Pearce, Brennan Cox, Hayden Young & Jordan Clarke is pretty sharp. And thats leaving out Nathan Wilson, Griffen Logue, Darcy Tucker, Joel Hamling ... all of whom would probably start in our best XXII.

Anyway, we don't play either Melb or Freo for a while yet. So judgement day is some way off.
 
Wolftone said:
I don't understand people turning against him. He had some injury worries. He has not had a pre-season, until this year, for 3 years. He had stress fractures, shoulder, strained medial and a calf injury. Poor bugger. He always had two things from day one, an intensity for the pill and talent. He never gives up. i love how, even when things were not going his way last year and he lost confidence, he never gave up. He kept fighting to get better. The kid had to be told to not hit so hard in his first intra-club trial. He was so intense. He is also super fast. With him, Papley, Heens, Will all bloody fast and good tacklers, the ball should never leave our forward line. We just have to talk Paps into bothering to chase. When he does they hardly ever get away. I remember a game where Ronke & Paps played together, they had 13 tackles between them and ran down players most times. I can remember Ronke running a player down through the centre of the ground, he got an in the back against him, it wasn't. It was definitely a great tackle. The next time he did the same thing ran a player down and got the free with exactly the same tackle. The first umpire was blindsided and just thought he landed on the back.

Paps, Wicks and Ronke can't play in the same side, unless Will is out as you say. I think at this stage Paps, when he gets match fit, and Ronke will be our small forwards. Man, they are going to torch some teams. People are saying paps will take ball away from Ronke. I don't agree. They will each play one side of a pack and whoever gets the crumb gets it. Both will be lethal no matter which side it comes out. Imagine trying to match both of these guys up if they are in top form?
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People turned against him because he didn't have an impact in any of the 5 games he played prior to this year.

Now, sure that may have been part injury related, but it's a fact.

Now we're happy to say the club were right to persevere, certainly I am.
 
Wheresbuddy said:
Yeah you are correct on McLean rucking and also having a key defender giving the chop out. 3 tall defenders in TMac, Ramps and Gould might struggle against Daniher, McStay and Big O / Fort though. Might have to be Melican but I just don't rate him. Hope we go with Reid instead with McLean giving the chop out.
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Ried has been tried before and failed. i remember his first game was good. But in the second he got a good tall forward who kicked 5 goals on him. the third game more of the same. We all breathed a sigh of relief when Reg came back.
 
Dubai Quacker said:
I'm probably heavily influenced by the 2-goal nightmare that was 2020 at Optus - but Freo are a very tough side to score against.

A back 6 of Luke Ryan, James Aish, Alex Pearce, Brennan Cox, Hayden Young & Jordan Clarke is pretty sharp. And thats leaving out Nathan Wilson, Griffen Logue, Darcy Tucker, Joel Hamling ... all of whom would probably start in our best XXII.

Anyway, we don't play either Melb or Freo for a while yet. So judgement day is some way off.
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not really arguing ... i agree, freo's looks good on paper and seems to be going ok on the field too
just that i've seen more of melbourne's over the past season or so, and i've always rated may and salem (as an attacking defender)
 
Nuggetz said:
I'll admit I didn't want Ronke in the team, thought he had a low ceiling and went missing far too often but he's been absolutely fantastic on his return. H'e's getting plenty of the ball and looking damaging with it. IMO he's playing with great confidence and intent. I'm hoping he can form a lethal small forwards partnership with Papley.

We look a bit too slow with Buddy/Mclean/Logan playing deep in the forward line, I think moving forward we need to park Mclean pretty much at FF, have Buddy and Logan playing the HF role. From the heat maps it looked like Logan was playing as our deepest forward. Buddy and Logan are excellent field kicks and tbh look more comfortable kicking for goal from 40-50m. Imo it would improve our spacing in the forward line as I've seen plenty of instances all 3 players crash the same pack. We have smart forwards like Hayward/Heeney/Papley who are good marks and provide excellent leads, they just need space to work.

My 6 in our forward line would be:

Ronke Mclean Papley
Franklin Hayward Logan

Have Parker/Heeney/Warner etc with bursts in the forward line to change matchups and add an element of unpredictability.
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I would put Hayward in the pocket and Ronke on the flank. Bud at CHF
 
Dubai Quacker said:
I'm probably heavily influenced by the 2-goal nightmare that was 2020 at Optus - but Freo are a very tough side to score against.

A back 6 of Luke Ryan, James Aish, Alex Pearce, Brennan Cox, Hayden Young & Jordan Clarke is pretty sharp. And thats leaving out Nathan Wilson, Griffen Logue, Darcy Tucker, Joel Hamling ... all of whom would probably start in our best XXII.

Anyway, we don't play either Melb or Freo for a while yet. So judgement day is some way off.
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The trauma that hits closest to home is always the hardest to overcome.
 
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