VFL 2023 Swans Reserves

[caesar88]

GUH, I like you naming three bold changes to the senior team and naming those you would replace too. However I can't see HHK pushing Reid out of the team just yet, barring injuries. Also, HHK is still on the come back trail from injury.

Bloods86, compared to your VFL team, I would move McAndrew to ruck, Ladhams to the forward line and Owen to the interchange. I would also switch Sheather and Magor. Plus I wouldn't mind Mitchell playing on the wing in Campbell's place but then I can't figure out where to put Campbell - so maybe can live with that one.

I think Sheldrick is in front of Konstanty and needn't worry too much. In the longer term they have very different roles to play (inside mid v small pressure forward), and, in the short term, Sheldrick has a head start - he's a year older and has a harder body. Assuming Roberts' best chance into seniors is via the same position, he's the one that I think has more to worry about.

I rarely come down hard on kids in their first few years, and I also have the utmost faith in our recruiters judgments. But I'm really struggling to understand what they saw in Roberts, based on his year in the VFL.

 

[Bloods86]

See HHK in the 22 along with Sheldrick. Campbell the 5th. Depending on who we play Ladhams and Hickey should both play.

Cunningham was a very ordinary 2s player when there this season. I personally see him only getting seniors gigs if there is a swathe of injuries. FWIW I have written off Reid as best 22 player. My wishlist is for Parker to play more fwd time than in the mids.

I don't see HHK even getting a debut this year unless he becomes much more consistent in the reserves and puts a bit more size on.

I don't believe a poor year is the death knell for someone who's been best 22 across several positions for years, so Cunningham is still well in the best 22 conversation if his form picks up.

 

[Bloods86]

GUH, I like you naming three bold changes to the senior team and naming those you would replace too. However I can't see HHK pushing Reid out of the team just yet, barring injuries. Also, HHK is still on the come back trail from injury.

Bloods86, compared to your VFL team, I would move McAndrew to ruck, Ladhams to the forward line and Owen to the interchange. I would also switch Sheather and Magor. Plus I wouldn't mind Mitchell playing on the wing in Campbell's place but then I can't figure out where to put Campbell - so maybe can live with that one.

I think Sheldrick is in front of Konstanty and needn't worry too much. In the longer term they have very different roles to play (inside mid v small pressure forward), and, in the short term, Sheldrick has a head start - he's a year older and has a harder body. Assuming Roberts' best chance into seniors is via the same position, he's the one that I think has more to worry about.

If Ladhams or Hickey is in reserves, McAndrew isn't going to be the main ruck. Simply not going to have your main backup getting limited ruck minutes (and in Ladhams case, he'll be our no.1 ruck in 2024). McAndrew and Owen will just have to share the remaining as part of their development. Games that we have no Ladhams or Hickey, then sure, McAndrew is probably no.1. Owen has been mentioned as having some forward nous, so that's why I put him as the 3rd tall there.

And Campbell was wing/outside mid at reserves level when he played there, so I don't expect that to change.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Aww

GUH, I like you naming three bold changes to the senior team and naming those you would replace too. However I can't see HHK pushing Reid out of the team just yet, barring injuries. Also, HHK is still on the come back trail from injury.

Bloods86, compared to your VFL team, I would move McAndrew to ruck, Ladhams to the forward line and Owen to the interchange. I would also switch Sheather and Magor. Plus I wouldn't mind Mitchell playing on the wing in Campbell's place but then I can't figure out where to put Campbell - so maybe can live with that one.

I think Sheldrick is in front of Konstanty and needn't worry too much. In the longer term they have very different roles to play (inside mid v small pressure forward), and, in the short term, Sheldrick has a head start - he's a year older and has a harder body. Assuming Roberts' best chance into seniors is via the same position, he's the one that I think has more to worry about.

I am supporting a mobile forward line in the ones.

Suspect there was some blood on the floor with Reid's contract extension. Reid holds some responsibility for the terrible decision to play him. His commitment to getting his body right is dubious. Sam himself commented he got himself fitter for 2022 than he had in the past.

Clarke's selection, I see as a time and place anomaly. Oppo adjusted to it. The problem with Clarke remains his decision making and sub par disposal when he wins the ball. In 2023 I see HHK and Sheldrick being well ahead.

No doubt Konstanty will get a crack at some stage if he has a strong pre-season.

 

[rustycrate]

I rarely come down hard on kids in their first few years, and I also have the utmost faith in our recruiters judgments. But I'm really struggling to understand what they saw in Roberts, based on his year in the VFL.

Get a few injuries to your inside mids and he may get some more of your attention. First year form is nothing to go by. I didn't rate Warner on his first outing. He looked just as insipid as Roberts did in his debut. Hoping he tracks just as well as Warner though.

 

[caesar88]

Get a few injuries to your inside mids and he may get some more of your attention. First year form is nothing to go by. I didn't rate Warner on his first outing. He looked just as insipid as Roberts did in his debut. Hoping he tracks just as well as Warner though.

Warner showed signs of what was to come at reserves level though. Roberts just didn't seem to possess a single standout attribute that would put him ahead of anyone.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think Cory will play in the mids/wing.

Very possibly/probably. I think Magor will play forward at times and possibly Sheather in the mids occasionally too. Horse prizes flexibility. They'll get moved around. I was more concerned proving to myself (and maybe others) that we had a reasonably balanced team. Add the VFL contracted guys and that's not a bad squad, if a bit inexperienced.
They'll do well to make finals though.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Reading a few possible teams I'm wondering where the leadership is going to come from. Bit of an opportunity for some of the youngsters to put a hand up. Gould has been suggested as one. Seems reasonable.
I'd love to see someone like Sheldrick, Roberts or maybe Warner step up. Don't think we have another Gulden though.
Nor do I see it in the older guys like Ladhams, Amartey, Melican etc.
Harry will be helpful but not really our future.

 

[Bloods86]

Reading a few possible teams I'm wondering where the leadership is going to come from. Bit of an opportunity for some of the youngsters to put a hand up. Gould has been suggested as one. Seems reasonable.
I'd love to see someone like Sheldrick, Roberts or maybe Warner step up. Don't think we have another Gulden though.
Nor do I see it in the older guys like Ladhams, Amartey, Melican etc.
Harry will be helpful but not really our future.

In reserves we'll still have Adam Gulden unless he doesn't stay on, he's been our captain for the last 2 years. In terms of other leaders at reserves level for now, it'll be Cunners (he's currently in the leadership group), Melican, Ladhams/Hickey, Wicks, Amartey, McLean, Gould have all been around long enough. Sheldrick probably will have a bit to say too.

 

[rustycrate]

Warner showed signs of what was to come at reserves level though. Roberts just didn't seem to possess a single standout attribute that would put him ahead of anyone.

 

[rustycrate]

Warner showed signs of what was to come at reserves level though. Roberts just didn't seem to possess a single standout attribute that would put him ahead of anyone.

Roberts is signed until 2025 so he has plenty of time to learn and get better. I like watching the young guys grow and second year players especially. Cory Warner is another I am looking forward to watching in 2023 as well as you know who.

 

[caesar88]

Reading a few possible teams I'm wondering where the leadership is going to come from. Bit of an opportunity for some of the youngsters to put a hand up. Gould has been suggested as one. Seems reasonable.
I'd love to see someone like Sheldrick, Roberts or maybe Warner step up. Don't think we have another Gulden though.
Nor do I see it in the older guys like Ladhams, Amartey, Melican etc.
Harry will be helpful but not really our future.

It will most likely come from the guys who have been reserves stalwarts for some time now. McLean, Cunningham, Wicks, Campbell, Gould etc.

They might not be the pictures of leadership that we're used to, but to the new kids and the top-ups who come into the team, those guys' experience of a few years worth of footy in an AFL system would speak volumes.

Don't think we've ever had a teenager captaining the reserves, but maybe if Sheldrick or Roberts or someone's form is at a high enough level, it might just fall on them naturally.

 

[hairy biker]

I rarely come down hard on kids in their first few years, and I also have the utmost faith in our recruiters judgments. But I'm really struggling to understand what they saw in Roberts, based on his year in the VFL.

I thought he was OK.

I'll just post a couple of observations I made during the season (from 2 different reserves games)

Roberts got plenty of the ball, but his tendency to always go on his left foot and roost the ball as far as he can was again on display....
....although a bit more composure when Roberts kicks the ball would be welcome

I think they highlight his strength (getting the ball) and a weakness (disposal by foot).
I like his disposal by hand, quick and accurate, but his kicking needs work.

He's not the quickest, most athletic and in some ways he is the 'old fashioned' centreman, going from contest to contest, winning the ball and quickly getting rid of it.

He may well not make it, but with Bell and Taylor gone and Clarke maybe still in the firsts, I think more responsibility and a year in the system will hopefully see improvement in his overall game.

 

[caesar88]

I thought he was OK.

I'll just post a couple of observations I made during the season (from 2 different reserves games)

Roberts got plenty of the ball, but his tendency to always go on his left foot and roost the ball as far as he can was again on display....
....although a bit more composure when Roberts kicks the ball would be welcome

I think they highlight his strength (getting the ball) and a weakness (disposal by foot).
I like his disposal by hand, quick and accurate, but his kicking needs work.

He's not the quickest, most athletic and in some ways he is the 'old fashioned' centreman, going from contest to contest, winning the ball and quickly getting rid of it.

He may well not make it, but with Bell and Taylor gone and Clarke maybe still in the firsts, I think more responsibility and a year in the system will hopefully see improvement in his overall game.

Yeah I mean I didn't think he was bad. I just didn't see anything to justify why we wanted him.

I also slightly disagree on his disposal by hand. I found a lot of it to be rushed and I suspect if turnovers were recorded in the VFL, his numbers in that regard would be alarmingly high. He often just coughed it up as soon as he was tackled because he doesn't have that agility to sprint or dance or side-step or weave your way out of the oncoming tackler, nor did he have the strength to really stand his ground and dispose of it cleanly when getting tackled.

Maybe that - along with like you say, a greater responsibility in the mids - is where his upside can come from. Just getting bigger and stronger, so if movement's not gonna be his thing, he can at least get his arms free and be composed to distribute even with two blokes hanging off him. But even then is he big-bodied enough to do so?

Guess we'll wait and see. I'm not writing him off and like I said, I always have faith in our recruiters. Just not used to not immediately seeing something in a young prospect. Even kids like McInerney, Rankin, Warner Jr., Zac Foot back in the day, when they came and were quite raw, I could still kinda envision how they'd fit into the puzzle further down the track.

 

[Callipygian]

I thought Roberts had a good year in the VFL, especially for a first year player. I'm not as high on Matty as I am on Gus, but I can understand what our recruiters saw in him.

Just looking at Roberts' stats: the only players to get more of the ball per game were Lewy Taylor, James Bell

32

James Bell

Age

25

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

0.5

3star

and Harry Cunningham, who are all much more senior. The only players to get more clearances per game were Bell, Sheldrick, and Ladhams. I think that shows not only his ability to win the contested ball but also his footy smarts in knowing where to run. Roberts also laid 3.8 tackles per game which was behind only JPK, Sheldrick and Campbell. That shows his willingness to work hard both ways and do his part defensively. Overall, those stats are very solid.

I wouldn't say Matt was the most damaging with the ball but I thought he used the ball fairly reliably (I don't have access to his stats for disposal efficiency and metres gained). And he was also able to get on the end of a few scoring shots, although his accuracy left something to be desired. I also felt that he showed good professionalism and the kind of footy IQ/awareness that comes with having played footy all your life. His consistency says a bit for his mental fortitude and desire to compete. Finally, I wouldn't want to leave out his ability to roost the ball and gain territory.

For me, his issue is that he's a bit vanilla. The question is whether, without any standout weapon (pace, elite disposal, running ability, aerial strength, athleticism etc), he will be good enough to succeed at senior level. Clearly last season, he wasn't. But that's ok - it was only his first year. And clearly others in the same category have managed to excel at AFL level.

Clearly the club also felt they'd seen enough to like because two thirds of the way through his first year the club decided to sign him for another 2 years, to the end of 2025. As a minimum, at this stage I think he looks like a worthy fringe player who will develop and be able to be relied upon to come into the senior team and play a role.

I see him as similar to George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

but perhaps not as good.

I think Roberts' success will come down to his desire and determination. If he can come anywhere close to Brett Kirk

Brett Kirk

Age

47

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

8.9

3star

HB

9.6

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

13.0

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

levels he'll be absolutely fine.

 

[Callipygian]

Aww


I am supporting a mobile forward line in the ones.

Suspect there was some blood on the floor with Reid's contract extension. Reid holds some responsibility for the terrible decision to play him. His commitment to getting his body right is dubious. Sam himself commented he got himself fitter for 2022 than he had in the past.

Clarke's selection, I see as a time and place anomaly. Oppo adjusted to it. The problem with Clarke remains his decision making and sub par disposal when he wins the ball. In 2023 I see HHK and Sheldrick being well ahead.

No doubt Konstanty will get a crack at some stage if he has a strong pre-season.

It'll be very exciting if you're right. It's always great when youngsters get their chance and all we think about is their upside.

 

[Bloods86]

For me, his issue is that he's a bit vanilla. The question is whether, without any standout weapon (pace, elite disposal, running ability, aerial strength, athleticism etc), he will be good enough to succeed at senior level.

You've just described a bunch of our revered inside mid champions over the years.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Yeah I mean I didn't think he was bad. I just didn't see anything to justify why we wanted him.

I also slightly disagree on his disposal by hand. I found a lot of it to be rushed and I suspect if turnovers were recorded in the VFL, his numbers in that regard would be alarmingly high. He often just coughed it up as soon as he was tackled because he doesn't have that agility to sprint or dance or side-step or weave your way out of the oncoming tackler, nor did he have the strength to really stand his ground and dispose of it cleanly when getting tackled.

Maybe that - along with like you say, a greater responsibility in the mids - is where his upside can come from. Just getting bigger and stronger, so if movement's not gonna be his thing, he can at least get his arms free and be composed to distribute even with two blokes hanging off him. But even then is he big-bodied enough to do so?

Guess we'll wait and see. I'm not writing him off and like I said, I always have faith in our recruiters. Just not used to not immediately seeing something in a young prospect. Even kids like McInerney, Rankin, Warner Jr., Zac Foot back in the day, when they came and were quite raw, I could still kinda envision how they'd fit into the puzzle further down the track.

The guys you mention are/were all outside rather than inside. You get a better look at them. I'd be pretty sure the coaches would be encouraging him to dish the ball out. That said, you may well be right.
Sheldrick is much more inclined to burst out so I look forward to seeing more of that from him.
Also interested to see how we utilise Mitchell and Magor as both have some level of inside chops.

 

[Wolftone]

I thought the AFL had already decided and publicised that it is a tactical sub, not a 5th interchange. So I don't think much will change about what we do. Most clubs will keep the sub until the 3rd or 4th qtrs, in case of an injury, then pull the trigger. We're likely to stick with the likes of Campbell, maybe Cunningham (although if he regains form, he'll be back in seniors as soon as they can find a spot) as sub each week, maybe rotate it if it would mean that these guys miss all gametime over a few weeks.

Also not sure about what you mean with those ins/outs and the side. Are you saying that HHK will be the senior sub or in seniors, Sheldrick is likely to be in seniors, along with Logan (they wouldn't be ins then)? And is there going to be no backup ruck in seniors?

The problem with Harry is that he has for a long time relied on his pace to get him out of trouble. When he has nowhere to go he is often hesitant. He lost a metre in pace last year, whether through injury or just getting older and the young guys are getting faster I do not know. But it is an issue as he was caught very often, even at VFL level taking them on.

On JAT-L29 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[caesar88]

You've just described a bunch of our revered inside mid champions over the years.

The game has changed a lot though over that time. Parker is our slowest, least dynamic mid now, and back in 2012-2016 he was probably considered the most dynamic then, which I think shows a lot about how our midfield has evolved.

However whilst I think speed is probably the most overrated quality in a mid, if you're not showing a particular nous or vision in the contest, but you also lack the speed or agility to get yourself clear of the contest, then what are you offering in the contest to justify your place in there? That'll be what Roberts has to prove if he wants to be a long-term mid for us. Let's hope he does.

 

[Bloods86]

The problem with Harry is that he has for a long time relied on his pace to get him out of trouble. When he has nowhere to go he is often hesitant. He lost a metre in pace last year, whether through injury or just getting older and the young guys are getting faster I do not know. But it is an issue as he was caught very often, even at VFL level taking them on.

On JAT-L29 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I felt like it was more his composure and decision making that was off. He was improving before getting injured. Then I think he just struggled to get back into it. Hopefully a break, then a good off season has him back to his old self.

 

[Callipygian]

You've just described a bunch of our revered inside mid champions over the years.

I think Roberts' success will come down to his desire and determination. If he can come anywhere close to Brett Kirk levels he'll be absolutely fine.

^^^

 

[Bloods86]

^^^

Yeah, I think I blacked out at the mention of George Hewett (still a sore point) and missed the final line.

 

[anotherletdown]

I rarely come down hard on kids in their first few years, and I also have the utmost faith in our recruiters judgments. But I'm really struggling to understand what they saw in Roberts, based on his year in the VFL.

His problem is he has no noticeable acceleration and while being neat with his kicking it's not overly penetrating. He's a diesel engine workhorse and the game is moving away from that type - see Sybkowski and D'Aloia in this latest draft. Still got plenty of talent and is young but AFL level might be a stretch from a traits perspective

 

[Dubai Quacker]

All this talk that a player can’t succeed without a “standout trait”.

Glad that kind of rule didn’t exist when we had “vanilla” players like Jude, Fosdike and Kirk being “meh”.