VFL 2023 Swans Reserves

[SeanM]

I feel at this stage we are happy to draft raw players with high upside who might spend a bit of time developing in the reserves.

Over the past 2 seasons we have drafted 11 players plus we have Gould, McAndrew and Sheather who have not debuted yet. Does not seem an opportunity for everyone to get early debuts and play lots of senior football.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Likely team:
Rankin Gould Cunningham
Melican Francis DRAFTEE
Warner Roberts Campbell
HHK Amartey DRAFTEE
Wicks McLean VFL
Ladhams Sheldrick Sheather
McAndrew DRAFTEE ROOKIE VFL VFL
Obviously positions are a moveable feast!

Time for a review:
Rankin Gould Cunningham
Melican Francis Vickery
Mitchell Roberts Campbell
HHK Amartey Warner
Wicks McLean Konstanty
Ladhams Sheldrick Sheather
Magor Edwards Owen McAndrew VFL

Defence:
Vickery and Cunningham can rotate opponents and positions while Melican takes the third tall and Rankin a steady opponent. Edwards rotates through. Francis takes a key but has Melican to support.
Forwards:
Owen and McAndrew will get some minutes. HHK and Warner can rotate back to the wing with Campbell and Mitchell moving forward. Magor can also play some minutes. Flexible.
Midfield:
Have a feeling that Sheather will play significant minutes. Magor, Mitchell, Campbell some too. Possibly Wicks or Konstanty at a pinch. Ladhams needs to stay in tune for seniors so McAndrew and Owens time may be limited.
If there's a serious weakness it's midfield experience. Magor and Mitchell get a great chance to step up.

 

[caesar88]

All this talk that a player can’t succeed without a “standout trait”.

Glad that kind of rule didn’t exist when we had “vanilla” players like Jude, Fosdike and Kirk being “meh”.

I don't agree that those players didn't have standout traits. I thought Fosdike always showed great composure and smarts, whilst Kirk and Bolton were exceptionally fierce at the contest in terms of how they attacked the ball and the man.

In any case, the circumstances are different. All three you mentioned were drafted in the same year and debuted in the same year. It put them all on relatively level footing to make it as a midfield group together. In Roberts' case, he is coming in a lot later - drafted a year after Gulden, two years after Warner, three years after Rowbottom, six years after Mills. He's therefore lower in the pecking order. Injuries can happen, sure, but he would have to offer something that the current mids are not to replace and/or earn a spot alongside them. Which is where his traits become relevant. Where are the plays that will make us go "THAT is what we need in the best 22"?

Still think he can produce that, we are great at developing players. Just didn't see it with him yet this year. We extended him pretty early in the piece so the club must have faith.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Time for a review:
Rankin Gould Cunningham
Melican Francis Vickery
Mitchell Roberts Campbell
HHK Amartey Warner
Wicks McLean Konstanty
Ladhams Sheldrick Sheather
Magor Edwards Owen McAndrew VFL

Defence:
Vickery and Cunningham can rotate opponents and positions while Melican takes the third tall and Rankin a steady opponent. Edwards rotates through. Francis takes a key but has Melican to support.
Forwards:
Owen and McAndrew will get some minutes. HHK and Warner can rotate back to the wing with Campbell and Mitchell moving forward. Magor can also play some minutes. Flexible.
Midfield:
Have a feeling that Sheather will play significant minutes. Magor, Mitchell, Campbell some too. Possibly Wicks or Konstanty at a pinch. Ladhams needs to stay in tune for seniors so McAndrew and Owens time may be limited.
If there's a serious weakness it's midfield experience. Magor and Mitchell get a great chance to step up.

It is a make or break year for Sheather, Gould, Melican and Rankin and probably Amartey.

 

[caesar88]

It is a make or break year for Sheather, Gould, Melican and Rankin and probably Amartey.

I don't think it's a make or break year for Rankin.

I think people are forgetting that Rankin is not one of those 'who??' skinny half back flankers we like to take in the rookie draft (such as Carruthers and HRH Rowles.) We took him with pick 58 in the national draft when it was widely anticipated we were packed up for the night. Obviously we really wanted him.

He came to the club at 73kg and the coaches were apparently blatantly clear with him when he arrived how far off being AFL-ready he was. I don't think he was under any illusions that he'd be pushing for senior selection with his footy in 2022, I said as much as far back as February of this year:

A lil update on our future 5x Norm Smith Medallist. Or in layman's terms, Lachie Rankin...

James Gandolfini voice I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who told me the following:

• Rankin's being primed as a half back. He doesn't see his future in the forward half, where he spent some time as a junior.
• Been earmarked as a successor to Lloyd's role, which was described as "steady." (Make of that what you will)
• Audible gasps from coaches at some of his ball use over the summer.
• Incredibly humble kid and a total professional.
• Impressed the coaches with his maturity when he self-reported a head knock a few weeks back despite no symptoms. Was forced to sit out due to the concussion protocols.
• He's been taken under the wing of Rampe, Lloyd, Rowbottom and Papley early on.
• He is not expecting to debut this year.

All of the above does not sound like someone the club is going to delist after only two years.

 

[Kiama Chris]

It is a make or break year for Sheather, Gould, Melican and Rankin and probably Amartey.

Hmmm.
Sheather was very good in 2021 as a small forward, then shifted back in 2022 and going well until injured. As a Cat B he will have to prove his value but the signs were good.
Gould apparently came on a treat this season to the extent that he was our tall defender emergency through our big run and for the GF. He's definitely in front of Melican and you would think has the edge on Francis. His problem is getting picked. He may end up moving to get a game.
Melican IMO will be delisted. No interest at the trade table this year.
Rankin is fine..... for now.
Amartey is a strange cat. Athletically blessed but definitely behind McLean in the coach's eyes. We have no-one to replace him at present so I reckon he stays unless we bring in a biggish fish.
Hope we see Sheldrick signed up soon.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't agree that those players didn't have standout traits. I thought Fosdike always showed great composure and smarts, whilst Kirk and Bolton were exceptionally fierce at the contest in terms of how they attacked the ball and the man.

In any case, the circumstances are different. All three you mentioned were drafted in the same year and debuted in the same year. It put them all on relatively level footing to make it as a midfield group together. In Roberts' case, he is coming in a lot later - drafted a year after Gulden, two years after Warner, three years after Rowbottom, six years after Mills. He's therefore lower in the pecking order. Injuries can happen, sure, but he would have to offer something that the current mids are not to replace and/or earn a spot alongside them. Which is where his traits become relevant. Where are the plays that will make us go "THAT is what we need in the best 22"?

Still think he can produce that, we are great at developing players. Just didn't see it with him yet this year. We extended him pretty early in the piece so the club must have faith.

I have to confess, I was a bit surprised that Roberts (and Corey) got long term extensions based on output thus far.

However, I’m still of a view that there’s a place for the dependable “beige” player in the modern game, provided they don’t have a glaring deficiency in any aspect.

 

[Callipygian]

Time for a review:
Rankin Gould Cunningham
Melican Francis Vickery
Mitchell Roberts Campbell
HHK Amartey Warner
Wicks McLean Konstanty
Ladhams Sheldrick Sheather
Magor Edwards Owen McAndrew VFL

Defence:
Vickery and Cunningham can rotate opponents and positions while Melican takes the third tall and Rankin a steady opponent. Edwards rotates through. Francis takes a key but has Melican to support.
Forwards:
Owen and McAndrew will get some minutes. HHK and Warner can rotate back to the wing with Campbell and Mitchell moving forward. Magor can also play some minutes. Flexible.
Midfield:
Have a feeling that Sheather will play significant minutes. Magor, Mitchell, Campbell some too. Possibly Wicks or Konstanty at a pinch. Ladhams needs to stay in tune for seniors so McAndrew and Owens time may be limited.
If there's a serious weakness it's midfield experience. Magor and Mitchell get a great chance to step up.

I think Melican is being underrated (not just by you) and he's not going to just be taking the third tall. Melican offers the least offensively but he is probably the best lockdown defender in the reserves.

I agree that this is a make or break year for him. A lot may come down to luck: an injury could give him a career-saving opportunity - or not.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think Melican is being underrated (not just by you) and he's not going to just be taking the third tall. Melican offers the least offensively but he is probably the best lockdown defender in the reserves.

I agree that this is a make or break year for him. A lot may come down to luck: an injury could give him a career-saving opportunity - or not.

I think Melican will largely play on the third tall so that the coaches can work on Francis. I actually agree that he us probably the better lock down of the two of them at this level but they know what Melican brings in seniors. Playing Francis as the key should give them more insight than giving him the easier role.
It will also be really interesting to see how they use Edwards as he played forward in the Academy games but I imagine they're more likely to give the two rucks time there than in defence.
I hope to be able to get to a few games.

 

[AnUltimateRessie]

• Round 1 will align with the second round of the AFL (March 25)
• 18 matches, and 4 byes (again)
• Grand Final to be played on September 24
• Introduction of the wild card round, which will basically expand finals qualification from 8 teams to 10 teams.

 

[Callipygian]

Do we know why they have so many byes? Is this something the lower tier of players need?? Or is it for some other reason?

 

[AnUltimateRessie]

Do we know why they have so many byes? Is this something the lower tier of players need?? Or is it for some other reason?

AFL fixture ensures at least one bye, an odd number of teams ensures another, and the other two I assume is to even out the competition and ensure that break gaps are more equal for each team? Not sure.

 

[Jewelsbon]

• Round 1 will align with the second round of the AFL (March 25)
• 18 matches, and 4 byes (again)
• Grand Final to be played on September 24
• Introduction of the wild card round, which will basically expand finals qualification from 8 teams to 10 teams.

They should play the VFL Grand final before the AFL Grand final and do away with most of the crappy "entertainment" they bombard us with on the day. After all, most of us are there to watch footy not watch second rate or over the hill entertainers.
With apologies to Robbie Williams whom, prior to this year's GF I would have lumped into that category, but after seeing him, definitely not.

 

[SydneyBlood]

• Round 1 will align with the second round of the AFL (March 25)
• 18 matches, and 4 byes (again)
• Grand Final to be played on September 24
• Introduction of the wild card round, which will basically expand finals qualification from 8 teams to 10 teams.

Anyone know why the reserves play five less games than the seniors? Money, perhaps? Travel costs and the like. Seems a big difference and a chance lost for the young guys to gain more experience.

 

[SydneyBlood]

Do we know why they have so many byes? Is this something the lower tier of players need?? Or is it for some other reason?

Ah, just noticed you asked the same question as I did. Seems odd to me. And from memory it was the same last season too. Or maybe four games difference.

 

[caesar88]

They should play the VFL Grand final before the AFL Grand final and do away with most of the crappy "entertainment" they bombard us with on the day. After all, most of us are there to watch footy not watch second rate or over the hill entertainers.
With apologies to Robbie Williams whom, prior to this year's GF I would have lumped into that category, but after seeing him, definitely not.

Yeah the entertainment is just too hit and miss to persist with IMO. It's fine when you get Robbie Williams or The Killers (GOAT show IMO) but how often does that happen? Not very often!

It's too hard for our sport to pull in decent acts unlike the Superbowl, and that's fine. Grand finals existed for decades without entertainment and I doubt anyone cared.

Surely the butchering of one of the best songs ever written in this year's half time break will make the AFL think twice about the entertainment they get. But then again, I thought the same after Meat Loaf...

 

[rustycrate]

Yeah the entertainment is just too hit and miss to persist with IMO. It's fine when you get Robbie Williams or The Killers (GOAT show IMO) but how often does that happen? Not very often!

It's too hard for our sport to pull in decent acts unlike the Superbowl, and that's fine. Grand finals existed for decades without entertainment and I doubt anyone cared.

Surely the butchering of one of the best songs ever written in this year's half time break will make the AFL think twice about the entertainment they get. But then again, I thought the same after Meat Loaf...

I reckon people would rather watch footy instead of music played in an arena that has average acoustics. Any footy. I reckon the 2 best under 18 teams from all the states would be a winner.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Yeah the entertainment is just too hit and miss to persist with IMO. It's fine when you get Robbie Williams or The Killers (GOAT show IMO) but how often does that happen? Not very often!

It's too hard for our sport to pull in decent acts unlike the Superbowl, and that's fine. Grand finals existed for decades without entertainment and I doubt anyone cared.

Surely the butchering of one of the best songs ever written in this year's half time break will make the AFL think twice about the entertainment they get. But then again, I thought the same after Meat Loaf...

My wife commented after this years GF that Robbie Williams was sensational. I think she’s right.

I wouldn’t want to see the entertainment axed. Even when it’s awful (Tones & I), it is a conversation piece!

 

[rustycrate]

My wife commented after this years GF that Robbie Williams was sensational. I think she’s right.

I wouldn’t want to see the entertainment axed. Even when it’s awful (Tones & I), it is a conversation piece!

Why are people at a grand final? To watch the best game in the world between the two best teams.
Why do we play bands at the grand final? To be like Americans where advertising on TV is king.

Is the half time entertainment entertaining? ---------------> Not really
Does the half time entertainment suit the venue ----------> Not really
Is it what people come there for?---------------------------> Definitely not!!

Three strikes and you are OUT!!

 

[AnUltimateRessie]

Meet our new VFL Coach, Damian Truslove

New Sydney Swans VFL coach Damian Truslove will bring a wealth of experience to the red and white as he takes the reins of the club's development program in 2023.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Damian Truslove also confirms that Jake Bartholomaeus, Harry Morrison, Will Collis, and Nic Shipley will return to the VFL program.

 

[caesar88]

Meet our new VFL Coach, Damian Truslove

New Sydney Swans VFL coach Damian Truslove will bring a wealth of experience to the red and white as he takes the reins of the club's development program in 2023.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Damian Truslove also confirms that Jake Bartholomaeus, Harry Morrison, Will Collis, and Nic Shipley will return to the VFL program.

I really liked some of what I saw from Shipley in 2022. Complemented our game really well and at times looked even better than our listed wingmen/flankers like Warner Jr., Rankin, Hall-Kahan etc. Although I guess that's to be expected given he's a more experienced player.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

With the possibility of Ladhams starting in the VFL, signing of Owens and the need to give some ruck time to Amartey, McLean and maybe Edwards (they all need to be ready to be the chop out ruck if required), McAndrew's minutes as a pure ruck will be limited unless he starts to show some significant progress.

I have not been overly impressed with him over the last 18 months and I wouldn't be surprised if Owens quickly passes him in the pecking order.

 

[Bloods86]

Meet our new VFL Coach, Damian Truslove

New Sydney Swans VFL coach Damian Truslove will bring a wealth of experience to the red and white as he takes the reins of the club's development program in 2023.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Damian Truslove also confirms that Jake Bartholomaeus, Harry Morrison, Will Collis, and Nic Shipley will return to the VFL program.

Good news. Morrison averaged a bit over a goal a game, kicked 2 or 3 in a bunch of games. Shipley also looked a standout among the non-listed players. Bartholomaeus got a bit of the ball for a non-listed player, helps with experience.

 

[Bloods86]

With the possibility of Ladhams starting in the VFL, signing of Owens and the need to give some ruck time to Amartey, McLean and maybe Edwards (they all need to be ready to be the chop out ruck if required), McAndrew's minutes as a pure ruck will be limited unless he starts to show some significant progress.

I have not been overly impressed with him over the last 18 months and I wouldn't be surprised if Owens quickly passes him in the pecking order.

He's a rake. He was never brought in to play seniors within the first few years. McLean barely rucked in the VFL this year, they don't want him rucking. Amartey did a bit, but only because he was needed for chunks of the year. Amartey will probably still do a bit of forward rucking, maybe a few centre bounces, but his VFL season showed he should be considered a KPF for the most part (37.21 from 14 games, 2 of which he went off before half time).

McAndrew's minutes were going to be limited anyway as part of his gradual development. If Ladhams or Hickey is in reserves (though we did have to rely on Sincs a bit this year, so Owen and McAndrew will probably have a bunch of games as the main rucks), then Owen and McAndrew will share the rest. Owen has been mentioned as having some forward nous, so wouldn't be surprised if he lines up as the 3rd tall up front a bit.

Reckon Edwards will be mainly KPD, they'll get Melican or Gould to mind some medium or small forwards if needed.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

With the possibility of Ladhams starting in the VFL, signing of Owens and the need to give some ruck time to Amartey, McLean and maybe Edwards (they all need to be ready to be the chop out ruck if required), McAndrew's minutes as a pure ruck will be limited unless he starts to show some significant progress.

I have not been overly impressed with him over the last 18 months and I wouldn't be surprised if Owens quickly passes him in the pecking order.

One of Hickey or Ladhams will be in the VFL round 1. We've seen that they don't work as a tandem, and Reid is basically the perfect backup ruckman. I assume Owen's experience as a forward in juniors will mean he's getting the least amount of ruck work, I don't know if that means McAndrew will be getting enough ruck time though. I think it's fair to assume McLean and Amartey will get exactly 0 hitouts between them all season at VFL level and will only attend ruck contests at AFL level if Reid gets hurt, as Logan and Buddy can't do it at all. So to summarise, yeah you're right to be concerned about where McAndrew fits into the picture