Autopsy Swans Vs Carlton Round 17

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Mick Oxlong

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 27, 2007
10,626
11,828
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Sydney
It's almost as though I'm not continually clogging up multiple threads making definite statements about the game plan and Horse's ability to coach without justification.

Again, if someone does that, the onus isn't on someone else to justify their statements


No they haven't.
They have, it may not be written the way you want it, but they have.

Anyway, I’m only a third person, I’ve seen what they’ve written...it’s now your turn. Maybe respond to me and tell me what his game plan is.
 

LordLucifer

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2002
19,819
18,204
Mosman Village
AFL Club
Carlton
I was at the game today and feel that many of you are being a tad harsh on your players. The conditions were atrocious with that wind, both teams sprayed kicks that went directly to an opposition player plus the kicking for goal was woeful.

It was scrappy, it was unattractive and it never reached any great heights but I was just waiting for your guys to flick the switch, for reasons that I cannot answer, it never happened even though it always looked like it was about to happen. There wasn't a "four quarter player" on the ground today, all 44 of them contributed only spasmodically.

Allirr was pretty good in the ruck but that is one area that we were able to expose and gain an advantage in. Maybe an off-season recruit is needed to cover situations like this.

I also thought the Swans forward line looked out of whack with just Reid as the lone tall target. Admittedly a windy day can work against the taller players but when your guys were rebounding off half-back and running through the centre, there weren't too many options to kick to.

That irish bloke (O'Riordan ??) has really come on over the last few months, seems very composed and isn't afraid to scrap hard for the ball when needed.

Dawson had a horror day IMO, made some bad errors but he is way better than he showed today.

Is Keiran Jack fit ?? Didn't look anything like what I know of him.

I really liked Hewitt's game, he was very good.
 

thylacine60

Make me an Admin!
Jun 4, 2006
88,049
137,997
Footscray
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Carlton
Other Teams
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How come Carlton have got so much better

Seem to have changed their style quite a bit

Players just changed things?
better fitness through andrew russell, getting injured players back, getting games into youth, self-belief, new coach who apparently has taken the bolton shackles off, players in rare form - murphy, walsh, casboult, silvagni, kreuzer etc, simpler game-plan, players finding their true positions - been 15 years of hell
 

Mick Oxlong

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 27, 2007
10,626
11,828
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Sydney
better fitness through andrew russell, getting injured players back, getting games into youth, self-belief, new coach who apparently has taken the bolton shackles off, players in rare form - murphy, walsh, casboult, silvagni, kreuzer etc, simpler game-plan, players finding their true positions - been 15 years of hell
Let’s hope there’s more to come...we had a good 40! 😝
 

Corpuscles

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 3, 2006
7,481
228
Lunatic Park
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The execution of the plan was poor in some parts with some players down on form and beaten. The skills were not good at times too many clangers

However if Reid and Hayward kick the two absolute sitters (let alone Haywards panic spray) & a few others exhausted other efforts then Swans win against the odds.

Then here the forum is reasonably happy, long held gripes are suppressed, until the next loss.

But it seems lots have been totally spoilt by decades of continued success and stability under great club and coaching management. Highly sought after by other envious clubs.

Most had a red hot go under difficult circumstances.

The ruck situation is spoken about here (in a general way), but seemingly not completely understood how much of a difficult structural setback it is.
Well done to the coaching staff for making adjustments to give them a chance (two sitters short of grinding a win)!

It takes a key defender and a key (more experienced tall forward) out for 50%. Neither have the aerobic build up special fitness to play ruck . One didn't play last year and only has one preseason. Against a No1 pick specialist career long opponent.

That leaves Rampe the Champ to organise the backline and cope with a yet very raw beginner learning KPB in Mellican. Therefore they need constant help demand huge two way mid run and often a spare, so couldn't man up on Newman.

That leaves small Papley , first year Blakey, Ronke and Hayward and sometimes and exhausted Reid to try and kick a winning score.
Jack ex captain experience but no form is their to try and other some direction.

And red raw Rowbottom to put in a lengthy stint in midfield

Well done Swans!

They will all develop and eventually get better. But it is not time to demoralise an underdone not schooled, or settled and unlikely AFL standard fit newbie (Knoll) to embarrass himself.

They have to fix the ruck next year and Sinclair is not the lone answer and barely even apart from huge effort even a No1 choice

Two straight shots .

Against a side who packed with under achieving talent but is completely on notice that they will be under huge scrutiny with a new coach who will look closely at these games. They are free to strut their stuff and every reason to perform to their best.

Swans coping with drastically changed bandaged up game plan to cope with the outs.
 

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Leg End

Club Legend
Apr 8, 2008
2,582
2,568
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AFL Club
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The execution of the plan was poor in some parts with some players down on form and beaten. The skills were not good at times too many clangers

However if Reid and Hayward kick the two absolute sitters (let alone Haywards panic spray) & a few others exhausted other efforts then Swans win against the odds.

Then here the forum is reasonably happy, long held gripes are suppressed, until the next loss.

But it seems lots have been totally spoilt by decades of continued success and stability under great club and coaching management. Highly sought after by other envious clubs.

Most had a red hot go under difficult circumstances.

The ruck situation is spoken about here (in a general way), but seemingly not completely understood how much of a difficult structural setback it is.
Well done to the coaching staff for making adjustments to give them a chance (two sitters short of grinding a win)!

It takes a key defender and a key (more experienced tall forward) out for 50%. Neither have the aerobic build up special fitness to play ruck . One didn't play last year and only has one preseason. Against a No1 pick specialist career long opponent.

That leaves Rampe the Champ to organise the backline and cope with a yet very raw beginner learning KPB in Mellican. Therefore they need constant help demand huge two way mid run and often a spare, so couldn't man up on Newman.

That leaves small Papley , first year Blakey, Ronke and Hayward and sometimes and exhausted Reid to try and kick a winning score.
Jack ex captain experience but no form is their to try and other some direction.

And red raw Rowbottom to put in a lengthy stint in midfield

Well done Swans!

They will all develop and eventually get better. But it is not time to demoralise an underdone not schooled, or settled and unlikely AFL standard fit newbie (Knoll) to embarrass himself.

They have to fix the ruck next year and Sinclair is not the lone answer and barely even apart from huge effort even a No1 choice

Two straight shots .

Against a side who packed with under achieving talent but is completely on notice that they will be under huge scrutiny with a new coach who will look closely at these games. They are free to strut their stuff and every reason to perform to their best.

Swans coping with drastically changed bandaged up game plan to cope with the outs.
Nice summary.

But it’s easier to bitch about players and coach endlessly - even tho we have had no ruck, missing arguably best player in comp, youngest team in comp and treated with contempt by Melb umpiring for 20 years.

Nah. Easier to just bitch.
 

lazy77

Senior List
Sep 29, 2018
297
276
AFL Club
Sydney
they show very faint hope occasionally

but yeah hard to build a fan base
Gold Coast is a large enough area that everyone wants a foothold there, but it never works out in any sport. Basketball and soccer failed miserably, and the rugby league and afl teams are only surviving because the organisations are too proud to admit failure and are keeping them on life support. It's not a viable region for any game at present. They just don't do sport up there.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
14,164
14,381
AFL Club
Sydney
I too would like someone to explain the gameplan in simple terms and why it is/isn't working instead of just complaining.
I think it stems from the middle where we’ve struggled since 2017 really.

Rucks rarely give them first use > they play defensive instead of attacking at centre bounces > this puts themselves under pressure so they resort to hack kicks and ignore the player on the outside > hack kicks easy for opposition to defend and rebound > we get opened up because of that rebound > if we’re lucky our back line save our bacon and we launch our attacks from our plethora of defensive inside 50s.

Creating scoring opportunities from defensive rebounds is a strength of ours if I recall hearing correctly, but it’s the messy process that we go through before they can happen that has been our undoing all year. And even when we pull them off, you get matches like last week where our forwards waste those opportunities.
 

Kummerspeck

Premiership Player
Sep 12, 2013
4,398
3,797
AFL Club
Sydney
No, you had a look?
No, as in no one has responded to my questions about Longmire. I know because I asked them. The best I've gotten is asking me to disprove statements. You claim they exist, you're welcome to link to them. Absolute certainty you're going to avoid backing up your statement, though.
 

Mick Oxlong

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 27, 2007
10,626
11,828
AFL Club
Sydney
No, as in no one has responded to my questions about Longmire. I know because I asked them. The best I've gotten is asking me to disprove statements. You claim they exist, you're welcome to link to them. Absolute certainty you're going to avoid backing up your statement, though.
Why would they respond? They’ve written down their ideals. They, like me can’t be f’ed repeating ourselves over and over (something I’m doing now in requesting you provide your interpretation of the gameplan). Go seek their responses instead of being lazy and requesting I do the dirty work for you.
 

Heeney2Franklin

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 20, 2007
25,837
15,327
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Nice summary.

But it’s easier to bitch about players and coach endlessly - even tho we have had no ruck, missing arguably best player in comp, youngest team in comp and treated with contempt by Melb umpiring for 20 years.

Nah. Easier to just bitch.
Nothing wrong with umpiring today Leg
 

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