Preview Swans vs Crows @ SCG, Saturday Night 7.35pm AEST

[melbournehammer]

So are you just saying all is ok because its all because of injuries? I have a few ideas

Maybe not persist in bombing to a contest especially given we don't have a proper crumbing small forward.

Find goals from other sources such as rebound but our best rebounder has his hands full wrestling with guys twice his width.

Help Heeney shake the inevitable tag he gets every week.

Just go harder at the contest and win some ball.

Stick some tackles

Its not so much that we're losing. Its the manner of the losses where for long periods of the games, our team is clueless as to how to stop momentum and kick some goals. And i worry that it is coming from the top.

Ive been at the hawthorn, north melbourne, essendon, GWS and melbourne games. I've seen a fair bit of the season. The team hasnt had any idea how to stop momentum since the second half of the GWS game when it rained last year.

Cox is trying to address the issues and is having about as much luck as horse did but with a signfiicantly worse team

He tried to move Mccartin forward to address some of the forward line issues. It failed as much because we then couldnt defend as he was struggling forward of the ball.

Weve had our best small forward out since round 2 ? Our best winger and top ten player in the comp all season. We have had a succession of problems with our tall defenders either being out or getting suspended.

As far as the argument that lets bring buller in I'm completely OK with because i dont think having ladhams and hamling and mclean does anything for the team other than providing three statues once the ball hits the ground - and thats not for lack of effort its just that they are not the most fleet footed of players running around. but I guess at least theyre tall is the answer to that. Maybe the answer is to play chaos ball. have a small forward line - kick it low and hard and look always for the short option. i dont think we are currently skilled enough to do that - our ball use is suspect and our small forwards are basically 2nd string midfielders. so i dont know where that leaves you.

But as to the other points...

This idea that blakey cant run off because hes playing on taller guys is nonsense. Him playing on taller guys HELPS him running off because he isnt going to be caught by georgiades etc. The problem is that every other team is well aware of who he is and they shut him down up the field and hes got no one to kick it to. which is why the dinky kicks are routinely being used.

Heeney is helped - everyone seems to be blocking for him so he can get the ball - but he does run past it and slips a lot when his opponents run at different angles - and even the best players dont win the ball everytime. He is literally our only player capable of taking a contested mark - our only one - and so the team want him to win the ball in the midfield and then run forward to be the key target from kickouts and the key target inside forward 50 especially when he gets goal side of the defender. Hes being asked to do too much - and thats because adams has been injured and gulden has been injured and maybe also its only been now that theyve decided sheldrick can play.

I am pessimistic naturally but this team is a patched up mess currently where the midfield is gettign beaten and our forward line is a shambles because we are missing key personnel

 

[Dubai Quacker]

So there was a presser with Cox this morning, but no video

Key Quotes: Dean Cox, Round 12

Sydney senior coach Dean Cox spoke to the media on Friday.

www.sydneyswans.com.au

I am here to clean ze' pool

 

[zyzzbruh]

But that he was so upfront re needing to be better at the contest, defence, pressure side of the game, suggests to me that he already wasn't satisfied with this group in that aspect, before he'd even coached his first game. Now he's a dozen games in and all they've done is potentially reinforced to him that they're not up to it.

I get that on the one hand he knows what this group are capable of when they play their best style, and he'd know they're in horrible form slumps and dealing with post-GF scarring and also a ridiculous injury crisis. But on the other hand he'd have to look at so many of our players who can't tackle, who can't contest 1v1s, who don't run defensively, etc. and think, "Is this just who they are?"

And the answer would probably be - yes! We've been poor in these areas for a few years now, we'd just gone all-in on attack to cover for it, with relative success, if never the ultimate success. But if Cox decides to continue prioritising those areas this group is weak in - which he should, as I think they're non-negotiables if we want to win a flag - then he may find that a lot of our players simply aren't compatible with it.

Extremely interesting times ahead...

If they're not capable then it is what it is - you don't scrap a list because of that. Build for the future sure, but you can't push shit up hill for now. One of the hallmarks of a great coach is being able to get the best out of his current group - not every team has to win the same way as others. And i'd disagree that being better at the contest is the only thing that can win us a premiership, this group has shown they can play some scintillating footy that can put any team to bed.

Cox should be well aware of the groups deficiencies over the years. For this team to be successful he has back his weapons and play relentless attacking footy. Contested slog fests are tiring, Carlton were at the top of the tree in that aspect and couldn't do anything with it, Melbourne and WB also couldn't maintain their success with it. And teams are winning it with a more dynamic, fast method.

I'd be happy for him to want a harder edge out of the playing group to become more well rounded like say collingwood - but to pidgeon hole attacking assets in Ollie and Blakey into a 1v1 defence whilst pushing a more conservative player in Lloyd up to the wing is not it. Ollie and Blakey missing in the slingshot overlap is one of the biggest discrepancies in our play between last year and now. Now we have most of our defensive plays ending in a Roberts dump kick with a slow semi effective Lloyd maybe at the end of it.

 

[zyzzbruh]

This idea that blakey cant run off because hes playing on taller guys is nonsense. Him playing on taller guys HELPS him running off because he isnt going to be caught by georgiades etc. The problem is that every other team is well aware of who he is and they shut him down up the field and hes got no one to kick it to. which is why the dinky kicks are routinely being used.

But he also has to be more accountable with a defence first attitude. Whereas if he was played on a lesser quality forward with a strong focus on attack, then his player will need to be accountable for him - and that is not something in most forwards repertoire, they hate it when they have to chase their rebounding defender. As a forward myself I absolutely despise when the running man picks me up.

Fact of the matter is we've got hamling, he's the one that should be played as the 1v1 with Blakeys main defensive focus being the interceptor.

 

[Nuggetz]

Ive been at the hawthorn, north melbourne, essendon, GWS and melbourne games. I've seen a fair bit of the season. The team hasnt had any idea how to stop momentum since the second half of the GWS game when it rained last year.

Cox is trying to address the issues and is having about as much luck as horse did but with a signfiicantly worse team

He tried to move Mccartin forward to address some of the forward line issues. It failed as much because we then couldnt defend as he was struggling forward of the ball.

Weve had our best small forward out since round 2 ? Our best winger and top ten player in the comp all season. We have had a succession of problems with our tall defenders either being out or getting suspended.

As far as the argument that lets bring buller in I'm completely OK with because i dont think having ladhams and hamling and mclean does anything for the team other than providing three statues once the ball hits the ground - and thats not for lack of effort its just that they are not the most fleet footed of players running around. but I guess at least theyre tall is the answer to that. Maybe the answer is to play chaos ball. have a small forward line - kick it low and hard and look always for the short option. i dont think we are currently skilled enough to do that - our ball use is suspect and our small forwards are basically 2nd string midfielders. so i dont know where that leaves you.

But as to the other points...

This idea that blakey cant run off because hes playing on taller guys is nonsense. Him playing on taller guys HELPS him running off because he isnt going to be caught by georgiades etc. The problem is that every other team is well aware of who he is and they shut him down up the field and hes got no one to kick it to. which is why the dinky kicks are routinely being used.

Heeney is helped - everyone seems to be blocking for him so he can get the ball - but he does run past it and slips a lot when his opponents run at different angles - and even the best players dont win the ball everytime. He is literally our only player capable of taking a contested mark - our only one - and so the team want him to win the ball in the midfield and then run forward to be the key target from kickouts and the key target inside forward 50 especially when he gets goal side of the defender. Hes being asked to do too much - and thats because adams has been injured and gulden has been injured and maybe also its only been now that theyve decided sheldrick can play.

I am pessimistic naturally but this team is a patched up mess currently where the midfield is gettign beaten and our forward line is a shambles because we are missing key personnel

Mclean needs to do this against the crows & the other players as a collective have to bring better pressure in our front half to stop easy transition from def to fwd. Some of that has to be positional changes because I can't see us regularly having strong fwd pressure when our fwd line has Hamling, Mclean, Ladhams, or another slow mid resting fwd along with the poor form of Hayward. It's too slow. It's left to Cleary & Warner to bring the pressure which isn't enough to be successful.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

If they're not capable then it is what it is - you don't scrap a list because of that. Build for the future sure, but you can't push shit up hill for now. One of the hallmarks of a great coach is being able to get the best out of his current group - not every team has to win the same way as others. And i'd disagree that being better at the contest is the only thing that can win us a premiership, this group has shown they can play some scintillating footy that can put any team to bed.

Cox should be well aware of the groups deficiencies over the years. For this team to be successful he has back his weapons and play relentless attacking footy. Contested slog fests are tiring, Carlton were at the top of the tree in that aspect and couldn't do anything with it, Melbourne and WB also couldn't maintain their success with it. And teams are winning it with a more dynamic, fast method.

I'd be happy for him to want a harder edge out of the playing group to become more well rounded like say collingwood - but to pidgeon hole attacking assets in Ollie and Blakey into a 1v1 defence whilst pushing a more conservative player in Lloyd up to the wing is not it. Ollie and Blakey missing in the slingshot overlap is one of the biggest discrepancies in our play between last year and now. Now we have most of our defensive plays ending in a Roberts dump kick with a slow semi effective Lloyd maybe at the end of it.

I get a bit sick of Cox just defaulting to “the contest” as the reason we win or lose each week.

He obviously learned it from Horse, who trotted out that line every week in his later years too.

There’s a lot more to the game. Skills execution, effort, structure ….. but all we hear is “we won at the contest” or “we lost at the contest”.

This week, I want to hear “we out flanked them, our structure was better & I crapped all over Matty Nicks. Well done me”.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Ive been at the hawthorn, north melbourne, essendon, GWS and melbourne games. I've seen a fair bit of the season. The team hasnt had any idea how to stop momentum since the second half of the GWS game when it rained last year.

Cox is trying to address the issues and is having about as much luck as horse did but with a signfiicantly worse team

He tried to move Mccartin forward to address some of the forward line issues. It failed as much because we then couldnt defend as he was struggling forward of the ball.

Weve had our best small forward out since round 2 ? Our best winger and top ten player in the comp all season. We have had a succession of problems with our tall defenders either being out or getting suspended.

As far as the argument that lets bring buller in I'm completely OK with because i dont think having ladhams and hamling and mclean does anything for the team other than providing three statues once the ball hits the ground - and thats not for lack of effort its just that they are not the most fleet footed of players running around. but I guess at least theyre tall is the answer to that. Maybe the answer is to play chaos ball. have a small forward line - kick it low and hard and look always for the short option. i dont think we are currently skilled enough to do that - our ball use is suspect and our small forwards are basically 2nd string midfielders. so i dont know where that leaves you.

But as to the other points...

This idea that blakey cant run off because hes playing on taller guys is nonsense. Him playing on taller guys HELPS him running off because he isnt going to be caught by georgiades etc. The problem is that every other team is well aware of who he is and they shut him down up the field and hes got no one to kick it to. which is why the dinky kicks are routinely being used.

Heeney is helped - everyone seems to be blocking for him so he can get the ball - but he does run past it and slips a lot when his opponents run at different angles - and even the best players dont win the ball everytime. He is literally our only player capable of taking a contested mark - our only one - and so the team want him to win the ball in the midfield and then run forward to be the key target from kickouts and the key target inside forward 50 especially when he gets goal side of the defender. Hes being asked to do too much - and thats because adams has been injured and gulden has been injured and maybe also its only been now that theyve decided sheldrick can play.

I am pessimistic naturally but this team is a patched up mess currently where the midfield is gettign beaten and our forward line is a shambles because we are missing key personnel

I take your points.

So what would your breakdown of blame be if you were to aportion it along the lines of player / coach / circumstances of season? For me I'd go:

50 / 30 / 20. All clubs have injuries but I do feel that the players and coaches have not risen to the challenge. If we're honest, we are currently a bottom 6 side which is not good enough when you take into account who we still have available.

 

[caesar88]

If they're not capable then it is what it is - you don't scrap a list because of that. Build for the future sure, but you can't push shit up hill for now. One of the hallmarks of a great coach is being able to get the best out of his current group - not every team has to win the same way as others. And i'd disagree that being better at the contest is the only thing that can win us a premiership, this group has shown they can play some scintillating footy that can put any team to bed.

Cox should be well aware of the groups deficiencies over the years. For this team to be successful he has back his weapons and play relentless attacking footy. Contested slog fests are tiring, Carlton were at the top of the tree in that aspect and couldn't do anything with it, Melbourne and WB also couldn't maintain their success with it. And teams are winning it with a more dynamic, fast method.

I'd be happy for him to want a harder edge out of the playing group to become more well rounded like say collingwood - but to pidgeon hole attacking assets in Ollie and Blakey into a 1v1 defence whilst pushing a more conservative player in Lloyd up to the wing is not it. Ollie and Blakey missing in the slingshot overlap is one of the biggest discrepancies in our play between last year and now. Now we have most of our defensive plays ending in a Roberts dump kick with a slow semi effective Lloyd maybe at the end of it.

This runs the risk of re-opening our attack more vs attack less debate. I just think back to every grand final I've ever watched. Hell, every grand final that's ended with us capitulating before we're even halfway through the second quarter. It's always been a belting at the contest. Getting beaten with consecutive easy clearances that lose us the territory battle, getting physically bullied with swarming tackling pressure, having our run-and-gun corridor game successfully blocked by a disciplined and well-structured defensive system with defenders that win or halve 1v1 contests.

I get it. It's all very boring compared to us going end-to-end with speed, or slicing the field open with precision kicks. But boring works, if you have the flashy stuff to capitalise on it. We have the flashy stuff, but not the 'boring' to capitalise on. I don't know if Dean Cox is any good or not as a coach because he's been in the job a hot second and been dealt a wildly unfair hand. But I'm 100% with him on one thing - the only way forward is by getting better at the 'boring.' I'm just not interested in winning seasons that culminate in the game plan & system capitulating in grand finals anymore.

 

[bedford]

Would be nice to read an actual preview of the game.

Why , can't you have your own thoughts

 

[SwansLifer]

Familiarity would be expected afterall its the same panel that was under Longmire generally what worked under his tenure would be relied upon for better/worse.

It does feel like we are trying to migitate damage rather than trying to win with assigning defensive roles for forwards

I think we really need to understand the impact of the soft cap here. They weren't able to go out and get 2 assistants.
Look at Longmire mentioning how hard it was the last few years, then just imagine if you took away his lead assistant and from all reports, they're a second assistant down too.

That's a huge factor here. I'm not trying to be a Cox apologist as there are many things I wouldn't have done either, but even without the injuries, he didn't have a lot going for him IMO.

 

[bedford]

Let's just see what we produce tomorrow night

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Let's just see what we produce tomorrow night

I await with a degree of trepidation.

Fingers crossed at very least we see some green shoots.

 

[Nool Carpenna]

I get a bit sick of Cox just defaulting to “the contest” as the reason we win or lose each week.

He obviously learned it from Horse, who trotted out that line every week in his later years too.

There’s a lot more to the game. Skills execution, effort, structure ….. but all we hear is “we won at the contest” or “we lost at the contest”.

This week, I want to hear “we out flanked them, our structure was better & I crapped all over Matty Nicks. Well done me”.

Yep. Every losing coach from last weekend.... probably in every division in every league in the game, is trotting out the "more pressure and better at the contest" theory this week. It says absolutely nothing.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I get a bit sick of Cox just defaulting to “the contest” as the reason we win or lose each week.

He obviously learned it from Horse, who trotted out that line every week in his later years too.

There’s a lot more to the game. Skills execution, effort, structure ….. but all we hear is “we won at the contest” or “we lost at the contest”.

Yep. We win when we maul teams on transition. Our pressure numbers tends to be high in those games which everyone's thinks is the cause, when imo it is the affect.

When your getting numbers around the ball running in waves it makes everything more predictable, hence easier to apply pressure when it is time to apply pressure because in those situations you tend to outnumber the opp at the contest whilst moving towards the ball rather than being stationary and worried about your opponent.

 

[The King!]

Let's just see what we produce tomorrow night

Close thread

 

[bedford]

Close thread

Who gave you that right , Swans Proudly's domain

 

[zyzzbruh]

This runs the risk of re-opening our attack more vs attack less debate. I just think back to every grand final I've ever watched. Hell, every grand final that's ended with us capitulating before we're even halfway through the second quarter. It's always been a belting at the contest. Getting beaten with consecutive easy clearances that lose us the territory battle, getting physically bullied with swarming tackling pressure, having our run-and-gun corridor game successfully blocked by a disciplined and well-structured defensive system with defenders that win or halve 1v1 contests.

I get it. It's all very boring compared to us going end-to-end with speed, or slicing the field open with precision kicks. But boring works, if you have the flashy stuff to capitalise on it. We have the flashy stuff, but not the 'boring' to capitalise on. I don't know if Dean Cox is any good or not as a coach because he's been in the job a hot second and been dealt a wildly unfair hand. But I'm 100% with him on one thing - the only way forward is by getting better at the 'boring.' I'm just not interested in winning seasons that culminate in the game plan & system capitulating in grand finals anymore.

I just feel the whole contest focus is not as promised as it seems. Tbh I don't think Brisbane or Collingwood or Geelong were necessarily the most contested, defensively accountable teams around. I would say they actually sliced and diced us and beat us at our own game rather than bully us in the contest. When the ball is transitioning in your direction on a string the game all of a sudden feels easy, appearing like they're bullying us comes after the fact, of course it looks like your bullied when you're outnumbered at every drop of the ball.

Of course contested work is an element of that, it's a basic footy thing. I just don't think it's the be all and end all. We were nailing teams despite not being great at it.

Running in a wave of numbers imo is the secret ingredient to breaking any defence. If Cox is sending out a contest first message, it makes you opposition focused and reactionary whilst the team with more attacking focus is already on the move. You have to be the leading player, not the once chasing or flat footed waiting for your opponent to move.

 

[Kbroome]

Don’t disagree.

I would just point out that Cleary, Gus & Corey need to be more than depth.

They need to be best XXIII.

Because by the time you’re 4-5 years on the list, if you ain’t best XXIII, you’re becoming a list clogger.

I think Cleary and Sheldrick are best XXIII.

I think the jury is still out on Corey.

Tbf Corey had a pretty good game on the weekend and we have seen flashes of it from him this year but also mixed in with some stinkers.

Stock slightly down on where it was in PS but still think there is a quality player there in him

 

[caesar88]

I just feel the whole contest focus is not as promised as it seems. Tbh I don't think Brisbane or Collingwood or Geelong were necessarily the most contested, defensively accountable teams around. I would say they actually sliced and diced us and beat us at our own game rather than bully us in the contest. When the ball is transitioning in your direction on a string the game all of a sudden feels easy, appearing like they're bullying us comes after the fact, of course it looks like your bullied when you're outnumbered at every drop of the ball.

Of course contested work is an element of that, it's a basic footy thing. I just don't think it's the be all and end all. We were nailing teams despite not being great at it.

Running in a wave of numbers imo is the secret ingredient to breaking any defence. If Cox is sending out a contest first message, it makes you opposition focused and reactionary whilst the team with more attacking focus is already on the move. You have to be the leading player, not the once chasing or flat footed waiting for your opponent to move.

I agree that Brisbane and Collingwood and Geelong weren't necessarily the best contested team. But they were good at it. They didn't get belted on the regular in this aspect like we do year in, year out.

Cox is prioritising the contest and defence because it's the areas we have to do the most work in. Not sure how you think we are going to get better at something we're absolutely average at if you don't make it the biggest priority. We cant half-arse our way to improvement.

 

[caesar88]

Kinda feel for McInerney, not really a great time to be notching up your 100th game when you're a whipping boy and people are pissed about suspensions and form. But a great achievement for a kid who even six months before being drafted probably never would've dreamed of having a career at all, let alone the solid one he's had to date.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Kinda feel for McInerney, not really a great time to be notching up your 100th game when you're a whipping boy and people are pissed about suspensions and form. But a great achievement for a kid who even six months before being drafted probably never would've dreamed of having a career at all, let alone the solid one he's had to date.

100 is just the start for him imo got another 80-100 in him

 

[Donza]

Kinda feel for McInerney, not really a great time to be notching up your 100th game when you're a whipping boy and people are pissed about suspensions and form. But a great achievement for a kid who even six months before being drafted probably never would've dreamed of having a career at all, let alone the solid one he's had to date.

Who are pissed ? How is he a whipping boy?
I'm sure among his teammates that ain't the case. Which is all that matters.

Maybe the media ? Fans?.

 

[Donza]

IMO if the swans bring that consistent pressure and effort from last week Q1. They'll really trouble the crows.
I've watched pretty much every Crows game this season and the can be flakey under pressure.

It's going to be a scrap.

 

[.Shotties.]

I think the frustration is with our lack of depth.

Again, take three of the top five out of a single unit in any team and it seriously struggles. Christ, look at the Hawks (who multiple members of this board seem to hold as a gold standard for some reason) when they lose just Day. Look at the pies last year when they had an injury list approaching ours without Pendles and Sidebottom having career years in their mid-to-late thirties.

 

[caesar88]

Who are pissed ? How is he a whipping boy?
I'm sure among his teammates that ain't the case. Which is all that matters.

Maybe the media ? Fans?.

Of course I was talking about the fans. And of course he wouldn't care or even know what fans think. But I like milestones because they're a time to just put the opinions to the side and be happy for the player for the achievement, and deadset about 50% of discourse I've seen about McInerney's 100th have been accompanied by things like, "Hope he doesn't get suspended" and "Will he hit a target this week", etc.