Autopsy Swans vs. Eagles - Rd 12, 2019

Grongey

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As much as I liked this performance, it is very easy to see where the guys on the sidelines come in. For example, would you rather Kennedy in the middle, or Clarke? Would you rather Jones across half back/on the wing, or Thurlow? Would you rather Hayward playing as a half forward, or Rose? And the fourth one takes care of itself when Cunningham hopefully replaces McVeigh on the HB flank. These decisions are all very obvious, we just have to hope they all bounce back as expected from their injuries. Exciting times ahead if they do!
OK understand what you're saying, but bear in mind:
Kennedy - can you see him in a tagging role?
Jones - obsessed with showing everybody how fast he can run 10m - as in every time, opposition tacklers know it. Frustrating for our forwards, who just want early delivery.
Hayward - playing selfish footy.
Cunningham - I'll give you that, but only on relative fitness/pace. Nowhere near the same presence or decision making.
 

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The Gong

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OK understand what you're saying, but bear in mind:
Kennedy - can you see him in a tagging role?
Jones - obsessed with showing everybody how fast he can run 10m - as in every time, opposition tacklers know it. Frustrating for our forwards, who just want early delivery.
Hayward - playing selfish footy.
Cunningham - I'll give you that, but only on relative fitness/pace. Nowhere near the same presence or decision making.
I'm sorry but I'd take JPK over Clarke any day of the week, no matter how good a tagging role Clarke is doing. Jones can make some sketchy decisions but we're looking to transition the ball a lot faster as per the weekend and Jones is very much in the best 22 with his pace and long kick. And how is Hayward playing selfish footy? Based on that one time a couple of weeks ago when he didn't kick it to the loose player in the square? That isn't a trend in my opinion.
 

Wolftone

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Florent is slept on !?? LOL He's one of the most over rated players in Swans history !
He's reached average in the AFL with games like this - which is over his level the last 12 months.
Can we wait till he actually goes past average for a few games before we hang a brownlow on his neck?
No he is not. Florent is a developing player in his third year at the club. He isn't overrated. He is on track. His elusive abity in close quarters is proving to be a huge asset. Stop knocking the kid.

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J_Moore

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Lloyd had a really good game but we did a lot of switching play at the back to open up an avenue (which worked really well mind you) and I think Lloyd racked up a lot of possies from that. I still think he's a better player than some give him credit for but Rampe had the better game I thought.

All of Lloyd’s disposals mapped there.
 

The Gong

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All of Lloyd’s disposals mapped there.
I guess that includes kickouts but he also does a lot of mopping up at the back and gets the short, accurate kick away that get us a mark and control of the ball. He gets dumped on for his short kicking but it's one of his major pluses for us. He's not going to have that booming kick upfield like Rampe.
 

J_Moore

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I guess that includes kickouts but he also does a lot of mopping up at the back and gets the short, accurate kick away that get us a mark and control of the ball. He gets dumped on for his short kicking but it's one of his major pluses for us. He's not going to have that booming kick upfield like Rampe.
I don’t mind it too much. It’s not immediately damaging, which can be frustrating, but he’s reliable and he’s clearly been told to play that way.

It would be interesting to see what the metres gained, etc look like from the disposals immediately after Lloyd’s short, sideways kicks.
I wonder if, like Tom Mitchell, the players on the end of Lloyd’s disposals tend to be in a good position to attack.
 

The Gong

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I don’t mind it too much. It’s not immediately damaging, which can be frustrating, but he’s reliable and he’s clearly been told to play that way.

It would be interesting to see what the metres gained, etc look like from the disposals immediately after Lloyd’s short, sideways kicks.
I wonder if, like Tom Mitchell, the players on the end of Lloyd’s disposals tend to be in a good position to attack.
I'm OK with that. You need a mix of key position, lockdown and rebound defenders in your back six. but ultimately the defence need to stop goals first and I think that's his contribution. He's not a lockdown defender but he's great at cleaning up when the ball hits the deck. Agree that he could be more damaging on the wing but his contribution down back isn't appreciated to the degree it should be on here.
 

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Here goes:

Menzel: slick delivery by hand and foot. Covered a fair bit of ground. Deserves another go next week for sure.

Rose: much more serviceable than the other experiments this year (Mc and Row). Also deserves another go next week

Lloyd: Rarely gets enough penetration on kick outs and generally. Compare him to Jetta and it says it all. Not all his fault. I think the set ups in the D50 on kick outs could be more clever. Everyone is so static.

COR: got lumped with Ryan and didn’t stick with him. Got pantsed before he got knocked senseless. Bad day for Colin.

Clarke: did the job. Serviceable. Actually did hit the side of a barn a few times. Frees up Hewett to cause havoc, so I think his role works in the current set up.

Florent: helps to move the ball through the middle. Not setting the world on fire.

Blakey: can’t get near the pill often but when he does, he is elite for a cold blooded reptile with no shoulders. Excitement machine.

Buddy: Mark Twain said it all.

Reid: Did what he is paid to do. At last we are seeing some real ROI. He was very good in all facets.

Mexican: Really bloody average. His mates mopped up a lot of bloopers yesterday. Needs to improve. I still think he is well worth persisting with. Remember how bad LRT and Leo Barry were in their first year or so at the club?

Ramps: elite

McVeigh: Still a class act. Gets exposed on large grounds.

Papley: Absolutely outstanding to say the least. More please!

Hewett: rapidly becoming my favourite Swans player

Parker: Hitting his stride. Seriously makes me question the conditioning and pre season prep. The swans were miles off the pace in weeks 1-6 and we’re fading in q4s. Not good enough!!

Sinclair: Totally banged up.

Dawson: should be persisted with, no doubt

McCartin: did Ok

Overall, we saw the forwards lead in a coordinated way and give each other space and support. The half back line looked sketchy when trying to mount a rebound 50, but really strung together some great passages through the middle of the ground. Very exiting to watch. We looked to be getting the ball out of the stoppages much more easily. I’m yet to look at how, but if this was a coaching change, it certainly made the difference. Anyone have any views as to how they got the ball to outside runners so successfully yesterday?
I think Lloyd plays the way the coaches tell him to. He just does what he is told. Our set ups on kick outs are not always that good. He is actually a beautiful long kick. Several times when we have got a player free in the centre or around the flanks long he had delivered beautifully. But our set ups don't really allow for this too often. I also think if Reid is on the flank he is instructed to look for him and deliver to him.

Our emergence from defence has been a little predictable at times. Always going down the right flank. But on the weekend we changed that up and ran the ball more. It worked. But we still have to eliminate the indescriminate kick out of the full back line. It just comes back. This will happen as the players get more presence to them. More calmness. Come in Kirkie. If we had moved the ball with surity we under pressure from the FB line all game we would have won by even more.


I think we had a wonderful game. For a developing side to come out and play like that was exciting. I have been saying for a while that we, have the talent but it was developing talent. It is and the whole footy world recognises our talent. Duck says the Sydney squad is exciting and is far better and both Norf and Carlton. I agree. Far better. The other two sides have some elite talent that is shining and allowing them to win games. Elite talent ulonly comprises about four or five players. But what they lack is a coordinated talent pool that ensures that 25-35 players are comfortable and abla at AFL level. We are developing that. I think without injury we would be close to the eight or bottom of it considering the lacklustre top eight. After all there are three clubs that are elite or close to it then the rest are just making up the numbers. Can Adelaide win it? I don't think so.

This lacklustre eight actually gives us a chance. Port are up and down as usual. Richmond have more casualties than the British at the Somme. Adelaide play really we at home but are sus on the road. The Lions are a young side and as such are going to be a bit unpredictable. The Weagles are succeptable to really attacking teams. I think Richmond are the most susceptible of all the sides in the eight due to injury. Port the other.

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caesar88

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OK understand what you're saying, but bear in mind:
Kennedy - can you see him in a tagging role?
Jones - obsessed with showing everybody how fast he can run 10m - as in every time, opposition tacklers know it. Frustrating for our forwards, who just want early delivery.
Hayward - playing selfish footy.
Cunningham - I'll give you that, but only on relative fitness/pace. Nowhere near the same presence or decision making.
With all due respect, I’m not bearing any of that in mind. The first three are easily superior to their alternatives in Clarke, Thurlow and Rose. Not even close. And Cunningham is obviously superior to an injured McVeigh!
 

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caesar88

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No he is not. Florent is a developing player in his third year at the club. He isn't overrated. He is on track. His elusive abity in close quarters is proving to be a huge asset. Stop knocking the kid.

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He is ahead of where I thought he’d be tbh. Just looking at his size (he looked like a 10 year old when he was drafted), I thought he’d spend his first two seasons mostly in the NEAFL just developing, similar to how Stoddart’s first two seasons have unfolded. By his second year he was playing out a whole season and cementing his spot in the best 22. It’s now his third season, he is not yet 21, and he is regularly one of our better players each week, and even playing some absolute blinders. If you told me when we drafted him with our first in 2016 that this is where Florent would be at so soon into the future I would’ve laughed you out of the joint.

I think it’s a testament to his talent but also his work rate that he’s had such a rapid rise. He’s clearly taking his career very seriously which is all you can ask of a young player.
 

Wolftone

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It’s been mentioned already but Huddo really is a good commentator. He was one of my favorites when he started and still is.

He came in fresh faced and not part of the boys club of former players. We need more like him and weed out the relics.


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I think of the commentators I have heard over the years the former AFL/VFL players tend to be the worst with a few exceptions. The best are people like Huddo, Bruce, Dennis, Drew Morphett, Sandy who are all professional broadcasters. The ex footballers, other than Dwayne (who is a professionally trained broadcaster) a seem to have one thing in common. An overweaning ego. Get professionals to broadcast the game and just have the ex footballers as special comments persons. Get rid of idiots and the boys club, these are not exclusive, and have people like Matthews, Parkin etc who actually know the game abd read it so well.

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Wolftone

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They should make plastic Dane dolls with a 'tash made from real hair. Parker has risen lately.

Please don' t let this happen. If you make these dolls when we play Crows & Port the people over there will be sticking pins in the dolls.

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Wolftone

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Yeah it's depressing 7 didn't take him back when 10 lost the rights. I mean I have Fox but I'd still love him to do the big games, and he was the perfect person to groom to replace Bruce/Dennis....not Hame, Basil or BT!
I think Basil is OK because like Commetti and Russell he is a trained broadcaster. He actually wanted to learn the caper before doing it. The trouble with all the other gallutes is they are know alls who did no education in presentation and personal development. Thry present as ego drivel fools and their delivery is always egocentric.

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Chaisa

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I think Basil is OK because like Commetti and Russell he is a trained broadcaster. He actually wanted to learn the caper before doing it. The trouble with all the other gallutes is they are know alls who did no education in presentation and personal development. Thry present as ego drivel fools and their delivery is always egocentric.

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Basil isn't obnoxious in a Hame/BT way, but he's just terrible at calling sports. He's always two steps behind the play and gets at least twenty names confused a match.
 

Wolftone

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OK it's subjective on the coaches part, but I'll never concede that Lloyd's performance was an 8, but Rampe only a 1 ..? That's just wrong.
Rampe had three goals scored against him. As a back an that counts against him. His major purpose for being there is to stop his opponent scoring. Something he did in the second half

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Wolftone

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I'm sorry but I'd take JPK over Clarke any day of the week, no matter how good a tagging role Clarke is doing. Jones can make some sketchy decisions but we're looking to transition the ball a lot faster as per the weekend and Jones is very much in the best 22 with his pace and long kick. And how is Hayward playing selfish footy? Based on that one time a couple of weeks ago when he didn't kick it to the loose player in the square? That isn't a trend in my opinion.
Will has got a few things to clean up in his game in my opinion. His, second efforts have been missing quite a bit this year. This may be because he is not quite fit enough. Secondly he needs to clean up his tackling. He let's far too many tackle go loose. Freeing opponents who now have no opponent because he missed the tackle and is out of the play. His leading patterns have all been a bit iffy. He seems to half heartedly lead up and then go back and try to take Mark of the century. Never going to happen. If he cleans these up he will be a good player again. But for now I'd like to see him play some reserves to work on his game

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caesar88

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Will has got a few things to clean up in his game in my opinion. His, second efforts have been missing quite a bit this year. This may be because he is not quite fit enough. Secondly he needs to clean up his tackling. He let's far too many tackle go loose. Freeing opponents who now have no opponent because he missed the tackle and is out of the play. His leading patterns have all been a bit iffy. He seems to half heartedly lead up and then go back and try to take Mark of the century. Never going to happen. If he cleans these up he will be a good player again. But for now I'd like to see him play some reserves to work on his game

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I thought he had his best game of the season in Geelong. His pressure in that match was enormous and he worked his arse off covering the ground. He ain’t going anywhere once he recovers.
 

Bloodied52

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Lloyd had a really good game but we did a lot of switching play at the back to open up an avenue (which worked really well mind you) and I think Lloyd racked up a lot of possies from that. I still think he's a better player than some give him credit for but Rampe had the better game I thought.
I thought they were both vital. Mills and Allir were very important as well in holding the backline together after the injuries to others
 

mikey_san

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No he is not. Florent is a developing player in his third year at the club. He isn't overrated. He is on track. His elusive abity in close quarters is proving to be a huge asset. Stop knocking the kid.

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I'm not knocking him. I'm just not blowing smoke up his arse.
The comment you quoted was in relation to what I see as BF hype on him every time he has gotten the ball and done 1, maybe 2 good things per game - while being absolutely murdered the rest of the game. Sure he has been developing - I just wish more of it had been in the twos. He is definitely not "slept on" on this board, quite the opposite.
As I've said he's been a part of the crew now on the move giving our midfielders an outlet option they have lacked over last two years. COR, Fox and Clarke being amonst others. Hayward can do it too I think if played on a wing. That's all good, great in fact and a real factor in our form turning around IMHO. Florent has now reached average AFL player standard to me. Let's hope he pushes on. When/if he does I'll be as well pleased as those blowing afore mentioned smoke the last year or so.
 

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