Autopsy Swans vs Eagles

[bungee]

It's round 4, if we win 5 of the next 6, that'll take us to round 10. We'll be 5-5

Sounds good enough to give us half a chance. As long as we don't lose to the Hawks. I want them 0-22 almost as much as I want us to win another premiership. Seeing them wooden spooners when Clarko has given away their top draft pick would just be the icing on the cake.

 

[MarkP]

I don't give a flying funk about petty personal attacks from punts like you. I've never taken you seriously (or any other small-minded twats who get their kicks out of bagging genuine Swans fans and shitting all over this board)

This is pretty awful.

It isn't a cult.

The club, administration, coaches, players and supporters are all fallible. All can be questioned. And should be.

To deny that is lunacy and shows a complete absence of reasoning and independent thought.

Disgusting actually.

 

[bungee]

I'm totally understand that you don't know much about the game
Hard if cricket is dominant where you are

Is that it ?

 

[bungee]

This is pretty awful.

It isn't a cult.

The club, administration, coaches, players and supporters are all fallible. All can be questioned. And should be.

To deny that is lunacy and shows a complete absence of reasoning and independent thought.

Disgusting actually.

What ? I said I don't like small minded twats coming on here just to bag other posters. This board should value all opinions and debate should be encouraged.

If you have an opinion express it. Maybe even throw in some of that "reasoning and independent thought" to back it up. If I disagree with your opinion I'll let you know why. If I agree, likewise. Rest assured I'll play the post, not the poster.

 

[bungee]

Well Port are better than first predicted, Bulldogs and Eagles are flag contenders too, and Pies will be frisky every now and then. Not surprising we lose all 4 games with an injury depleted team. Collingwood was the one that got away.

Agreed Port were a surprise. Pies, we could and should have won. Yes, we probably went one newbie too many on that one but we also had a half-asleep team in the first quarter.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Agreed Port were a surprise. Pies, we could and should have won. Yes, we probably went one newbie too many on that one but we also had a half-asleep team in the first quarter.

First quarter is literally what cost us the game considering we outscored Collingwood for the next 3.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

First quarter is literally what cost us the game considering we outscored Collingwood for the next 3.

They got the jump on us, a few things went their way and suddenly our only option was to play catch-up footy. Same as we did to both Adelaide and Geelong in consecutive finals last year. Happens sometimes.

 

[melbournehammer]

We should win 5 of our next 6, we have some garbage opposition coming up. That puts us 5-6 at the halfway point of the season.

I expect that the comments of us missing finals are wrong, but the comments about us only losing due to injuries or AFL conspiracies are equally wrong.

I haven't looked but the odds for us missing finals must be more like evens. There are fewer really poor teams this year than in the past as Melbourne, freo saints can all win on their day. Even north who many thought were likely to be terrible have been really competitive. This will mean everyone will take points off each other but it will be really tough to have one of those cruise stretches.

 

[Zaky]

Brilliant? Lol

Yes brilliant.

Not as brilliant as having 65k posts on a fan forum where the avg is 5k, but brilliant none the less. Lol.

 

[The King!]

Yes brilliant.

Not as brilliant as having 65k posts on a fan forum where the avg is 5k, but brilliant none the less.

Lol i see what you did there

Horse is a good coach imo, brilliant coches win multiple premierships

 

[Zaky]

Lol i see what you did there

Horse is a good coach imo, brilliant coches win multiple premierships

Flags are hard to win. Now we are finding out the true nature of Clarksons brilliance as a coach. Basically if you are handed a super talented list the rest takes care of itself.

I reckon if Clarkson was the swans coach he wouldnt have taken us as afar as Horse. Clarkson so far has bombed the hawks future with shitty list management, horse hasnt.

 

[Zaky]

This is pretty awful.

It isn't a cult.

The club, administration, coaches, players and supporters are all fallible. All can be questioned. And should be.

To deny that is lunacy and shows a complete absence of reasoning and independent thought.

Disgusting actually.

Disgusting hey? Hyperbole much! Using big emotive words much?

Its like there are a few posters here who get really upset at the passion that most fans of a sporting club show, the unbiased support really gets the autism going in some of the folks here. To these people the sight of someone showing unbiased devotion towards something they love really really makes them upset so they spend their energy and time bringing these people down or pointing and laughing.

Thats disgusting mate.

 

[The King!]

Flags are hard to win. Now we are finding out the true nature of Clarksons brilliance as a coach. Basically if you are handed a super talented list the rest takes care of itself.

I reckon if Clarkson was the swans coach he wouldnt have taken us as afar as Horse. Clarkson so far has bombed the hawks future with shitty list management, horse hasnt.

I think coaches , even the best have an expiry date at any club, clarkson was part of the hawks build to dominance, longmire didnt have to build as much as head coach but was obviously there with Roos.

I think what Clarko did wether we like it or not is win a flag in 08 then redevelop his game plan to make a grannie in 2012, then readjust to win 3 flags

Horse tweaked things post roos won a flag and basically tried to repeat too much. Again just my view, think thats wahat separates them

However Horse is still a very good coach, one of the best right now.

I think both horse and clarko might need a fresh start sooner rather than later'
Just a view,

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Yep that's not good. A coach who falls for the three card trick every time. FLOOD, FLOOD, FLOOD. But how the **** do you get it out with every player in the opposition forward 50. Dumb coaching!

If you'd ended with "Sad!" I would've sworn that the leader of the free world had started watching footy!

 

[MC Bad Genius]

OK. I'm going to start by apologising for the length of this post, but there are heaps of things from the last 19 pages that I want to address and would rather do it in one post than multiple ones.

1. The team & the season so far - We're 0-4 for a reason and that is that we haven't been good enough. BUT ... we have been able to scrap our way to winning positions in the final quarter in all 3 of those games (granted the closest we got to Port was 13 points, but we weren't blown away) and that in itself is a positive. We've debuted 4 (?) players this year already and have a bunch of others that have <30 games experience in the team, so to not manage to get ourselves over the line is understandable, but entirely frustrating. 2017 is certainly not a write-off though!

2. The game against West Coast - As most people have alluded to, our biggest issue was stupid turnovers and the Eagles scored quite a lot of their goals from them. BUT ... our attack on the ball and the player was frenetic and a huge step up from the first few games. With the pressure that we put on their ball carriers, we should've been 4 goals up at quarter time and that would have put the game into a very different situation. The signs were there though.

3. Horse - I haven't always been his greatest fan and can complain about his seeming lack of adaptability when things aren't going well. BUT ... he has gotten us to three GFs and often with a list that were completely written off by people outside the club. Even if 2017 doesn't end up as positive as I believe it will be, Longmire has the credits in the bank to try and reverse the trend and I'm confident he'll get the best out of the players at his disposal.

4. Heath Grundy - Claims that he's cooked are far off the mark, as he showed he can certainly match it with the most damaging forward in the game at the moment. The thing that was worrying was his decision-making and that's a completely different kettle of fish. When he first started as a defender in the Swans lineup, he was horrible by foot, but over the last 3-4 years he ended up being one of our most reliable as he knew his limitations and played within them, inevitably choosing the right option. His mistakes lead to goals and that hurt, but he is easily our best option in the role and will continue to be a rock for us down back.

5. Nick Smith - Pretty much the exact opposite of what I said about Grundy, unfortunately. He has never been the most reliable kick, but he always seems to try for the option that requires absolute pinpoint precision. Look, I don't mind players constantly trying to stretch themselves, but Smith is a mature footballer now and should be more self-aware of his limitations. Also, he's being outrun by the small forwards that lead and outmuscled by those that engage in a marking contest. Not sure what to do with him, but he might need a run in the 2s.

6. Buddy - Clearly injured early on Thursday night, but is looking much fitter this season than the last couple. My only gripe was that he knew he couldn't run very well, so he needed to do the unselfish thing and stay deep in the 50 rather than trying to inject himself into the play. It would've helped our team structure, plus we wouldn't have been burned so much on the rebound as he was unable to chase at all.

7. Callum Sinclair - Yes, he'll struggle to keep his place if both Tippett and Naismith return from injury, but if only one of them comes back, we need to keep him in the side. I said it in the preview thread as well, but he is unfairly maligned on this board. He ended up with 24 hitouts (and some decent ones to advantage), 13 disposals and 4 tackles. The only time we really got smashed in centre clearances was when Reid was pinch-hitting in the ruck, so that's proof for me that Sinclair played his role well.

8. Callum Mills - He'll get released into the midfield at some point this season no doubt, but it will only be once there are some players return from injury (namely McVeigh and Rampe). I don't think he's been as bad as some people suggest, but he certainly hasn't been able to intercept mark nearly as much as he did in his debut season. If he can bring that aspect back to his game, the criticisms will fall away.

9. Sam Reid - Hopefully people can openly admit they were wrong about him. Has been in blistering form this season and was still very good despite the ball being kicked over his head so many times. He has a seriously big tank and the more we can isolate him as a link player (in the Riewoldt/late-career Richo mould), the better off we'll be.

I could probably go on about a few more things, but I think I should draw the line there.

 

[The King!]

Agree re Reid

Just needs supply

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

OK. I'm going to start by apologising for the length of this post, but there are heaps of things from the last 19 pages that I want to address and would rather do it in one post than multiple ones.

1. The team & the season so far - We're 0-4 for a reason and that is that we haven't been good enough. BUT ... we have been able to scrap our way to winning positions in the final quarter in all 3 of those games (granted the closest we got to Port was 13 points, but we weren't blown away) and that in itself is a positive. We've debuted 4 (?) players this year already and have a bunch of others that have <30 games experience in the team, so to not manage to get ourselves over the line is understandable, but entirely frustrating. 2017 is certainly not a write-off though!

2. The game against West Coast - As most people have alluded to, our biggest issue was stupid turnovers and the Eagles scored quite a lot of their goals from them. BUT ... our attack on the ball and the player was frenetic and a huge step up from the first few games. With the pressure that we put on their ball carriers, we should've been 4 goals up at quarter time and that would have put the game into a very different situation. The signs were there though.

3. Horse - I haven't always been his greatest fan and can complain about his seeming lack of adaptability when things aren't going well. BUT ... he has gotten us to three GFs and often with a list that were completely written off by people outside the club. Even if 2017 doesn't end up as positive as I believe it will be, Longmire has the credits in the bank to try and reverse the trend and I'm confident he'll get the best out of the players at his disposal.

4. Heath Grundy - Claims that he's cooked are far off the mark, as he showed he can certainly match it with the most damaging forward in the game at the moment. The thing that was worrying was his decision-making and that's a completely different kettle of fish. When he first started as a defender in the Swans lineup, he was horrible by foot, but over the last 3-4 years he ended up being one of our most reliable as he knew his limitations and played within them, inevitably choosing the right option. His mistakes lead to goals and that hurt, but he is easily our best option in the role and will continue to be a rock for us down back.

5. Nick Smith - Pretty much the exact opposite of what I said about Grundy, unfortunately. He has never been the most reliable kick, but he always seems to try for the option that requires absolute pinpoint precision. Look, I don't mind players constantly trying to stretch themselves, but Smith is a mature footballer now and should be more self-aware of his limitations. Also, he's being outrun by the small forwards that lead and outmuscled by those that engage in a marking contest. Not sure what to do with him, but he might need a run in the 2s.

6. Buddy - Clearly injured early on Thursday night, but is looking much fitter this season than the last couple. My only gripe was that he knew he couldn't run very well, so he needed to do the unselfish thing and stay deep in the 50 rather than trying to inject himself into the play. It would've helped our team structure, plus we wouldn't have been burned so much on the rebound as he was unable to chase at all.

7. Callum Sinclair - Yes, he'll struggle to keep his place if both Tippett and Naismith return from injury, but if only one of them comes back, we need to keep him in the side. I said it in the preview thread as well, but he is unfairly maligned on this board. He ended up with 24 hitouts (and some decent ones to advantage), 13 disposals and 4 tackles. The only time we really got smashed in centre clearances was when Reid was pinch-hitting in the ruck, so that's proof for me that Sinclair played his role well.

8. Callum Mills - He'll get released into the midfield at some point this season no doubt, but it will only be once there are some players return from injury (namely McVeigh and Rampe). I don't think he's been as bad as some people suggest, but he certainly hasn't been able to intercept mark nearly as much as he did in his debut season. If he can bring that aspect back to his game, the criticisms will fall away.

9. Sam Reid - Hopefully people can openly admit they were wrong about him. Has been in blistering form this season and was still very good despite the ball being kicked over his head so many times. He has a seriously big tank and the more we can isolate him as a link player (in the Riewoldt/late-career Richo mould), the better off we'll be.

I could probably go on about a few more things, but I think I should draw the line there.

Good stuff mate.

 

[skipper kelly]

What has changed between the 2016 Swans, which averaged more than 100 per game in the home and away (4th best in the league and better than Hawthorn, West Coast and WB) and the least scored against in the league, with the 2017 Swans? Could it be injuries and personnel or is it the game plan?

 

[Tuco]

A lot can change over a preseason. Just ask ROK.

 

[mikey_san]

OK.

6. Buddy - Clearly injured early on Thursday night, but is looking much fitter this season than the last couple. My only gripe was that he knew he couldn't run very well, so he needed to do the unselfish thing and stay deep in the 50 rather than trying to inject himself into the play. It would've helped our team structure, plus we wouldn't have been burned so much on the rebound as he was unable to chase at all.


9. Sam Reid - Hopefully people can openly admit they were wrong about him. Has been in blistering form this season and was still very good despite the ball being kicked over his head so many times. He has a seriously big tank and the more we can isolate him as a link player (in the Riewoldt/late-career Richo mould), the better off we'll be.

I thought Buddy and Reid were our among our best mids when played there. Buddy can accurately kick into the forwards, and Reid was actually decent at finding a good option to extract it from the melee at times rather than "anywhere but here" which Kennedy and a few others did all day. It's a shame Buddy isn't a bit quicker - he'd be freaken awesome if he could take on more players on the outside. Still - I see his future as a wing - half forward, Richardson and now Reiwoldt style. Bud was pretty darn good as a pinch hitting ruck too - combative, and long reach - some decent taps to good spots. Buddy delivering to Reid on the lead is a good option imho. He's too good to waste deep unless we are constantly winning it there anyway.

 

[Tuco]

I thought Buddy and Reid were our among our best mids when played there. Buddy can accurately kick into the forwards, and Reid was actually decent at finding a good option to extract it from the melee at times rather than "anywhere but here" which Kennedy and a few others did all day. It's a shame Buddy isn't a bit quicker - he'd be freaken awesome if he could take on more players on the outside. Still - I see his future as a wing - half forward, Richardson and now Reiwoldt style. Bud was pretty darn good as a pinch hitting ruck too - combative, and long reach - some decent taps to good spots. Buddy delivering to Reid on the lead is a good option imho. He's too good to waste deep unless we are constantly winning it there anyway.

Buddy is the best field kick in tbe side, for sure.

That bullet pass Buddy did late in the Collingwood game that hit Hayward(?) after travelling 40m at head height was just about the best pass I've seen this year. Laserlike.

If Buddy does play up off the wing, we must give him something to pass to. He'll hit a fwd laces out more often than mot if given the chance!

 

[PVF]

Actually I'm going to retract some of my statements I said after the game. Clear overreaction on my behalf writing the season off already for us.

I've just watched an NBA season where my Miami Heat when 11-30 halfway through the season and looking like getting a top 3 pick to going 30-11 the rest of the way and only just missing the playoffs by a tiebreaker.

If we go 5-5 before the bye then we are in with a shot at making the 8.

 

[TheMase]

What has changed between the 2016 Swans, which averaged more than 100 per game in the home and away (4th best in the league and better than Hawthorn, West Coast and WB) and the least scored against in the league, with the 2017 Swans? Could it be injuries and personnel or is it the game plan?

A few factors I think. Our defence is undermanned with the loss of Rampe and a lot of inexperience, this means our midfield is being even more defensive. Together with poor form by Hannebery (0.5 per game last year 0.25 this year) and Parker (about 1 per game to 0 this year).

Papley has just come back was our second highest goals 2016 (29). Heeney third (28), Rohan and Parker fourth (25). Not getting goals from Hewett due to new role (18 down to 0) Kennedy average down too. Tippett also kicked 17 last year and not playing.

In short injuries have somewhat curtailed each area of the ground. Defence where Rampe is such an important component, mids without Heeney and therefore not adequately replacing Tom Mitchell (Hewett and kids not there yet) and then lost all our inside 50 pressure where we were able to bomb, keep the ball in and force a score (kids have been good but can't keep it up for four quarters).

Example, we had 7 tackles inside 50 in the first quarter against the Eagles, and 6 for the rest of the game. Just can't keep it going with the kids in that area for four quarters.

So our defence lacks structure / understanding (how many times did we see three go for the punch and all losing their feet?). Our mids need to work harder back because of this and because of that aren't as effective in attack and when we do get it forward (less often than 2016 because of the prior reasons) we either struggle to mark the ball or can't hit a target and then the pressure is not there to keep the ball in and the field opens up for the opposition and they bring it fast into their forward line against our exposed defence.

We don't have the depth to cover for these gaps and our coaching staff appear to have adjusted the game plan to be this defensive to try and stifle any confidence shedding blow outs. Horse effectively said this "our goal has been to remain as competitive as possible until we get some of these guys back and firing".

This is exposing our already poor skill level as in the past we have been able to overcome this by attrition.

All is not lost and this time will end up being a blessing is disguise giving some seriously talented youngsters exposure to senior footy.

 

[swansfan51]

Our defence was pretty bad but at least not this bad

 

[sataris]

Our defence was pretty bad but at least not this bad

That is actually classic swans defending,

Take out as many of your fellow defenders as possible.