Academy Sydney Academy in 2020 another bonanza

Bandicoot

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Who cares if we convert the Northern states or grow the talent pool. Aussie rules will be a great game with or without NSW or QLD.

Let the rugby states remain rugby states. It'll give us better National rugby teams to support. Why are we hellbent on poaching kids from other sports?
You really have no idea. Without the northern states the AFL will go broke. Just as it almost did when it was the VFL.
 

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sr36

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You really have no idea. Without the northern states the AFL will go broke. Just as it almost did when it was the VFL.
Even before it nationalised, the VFL was arguably the largest sporting association in the country. If it was impossible to avoid going broke without expansion, eveey other sporting league is doomed.

They nearly went broke because they were irresponsibly managed, not because they weren't big enough to be financially viable.
 

Bandicoot

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State of origin is based on the state their origin club is in. That means Andy McGrath is listed as Victorian because his origin club is Brighton Grammar, rather than being listed as Canadian. "Other" means that their 'origin' was listed as athletics or basketball or whatever, rather than a place. Some of the data may be a bit off as well, but it should be good enough for ballpark figures. These are also only current AFL players, who are on a list *right now*, alongside data on the Australian population (Mar, 2019) from the ABS.

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WOW. You obviously have too much spare time on your hands. 😀
 

GC2015

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Has a club ever had 2 0r plus players go top 20 in a draft ? Swans had mills and heeney a year apart roos kinda did last year. Be instresting what the view would be from the footy community if a team got 2 of the best players in a draft year..
In the interest of answering the question, GWS secured three players within the top 20 picks in 2015 & 2016 (2015: #7 Jacob Hopper, #13 Matthew Kennedy, #16 Harrison Himmelberg. 2016: #5 Will Setterfield, #14 Harry Perryman, #20 Isaac Cumming). The AFL realised this would be an issue going forward and removed the Albury/Murray regions of NSW from GWS's academy zone and turned them into NGA areas. It immediately had an effect in the 2017 draft when Jarrod Brander (Wentworth) was drafted to West Coast with pick 13 and Charlie Spargo (Albury) was drafted to the Demons with pick 29. So I think it's fair to say the inequalities that previously existed with GWS's academy access have now been addressed and is in line with the three other northern academies.

Outside of GWS, Sydney seem to have had a fair bit of luck in terms of top end talent coming out of their academy zone. Isaac Heeney is a generational player and the Swans were able to secure him for pick 18, which looks really cheap when you look back on it retrospectively but at the time no one thought players of Heeney's ability were going to come out of the NSW/QLD developmental pathways. Again, the AFL realised it was going to be an issue going forward and adjusted the bidding system the following year which forced the Swans to give up the equivalent of pick 3 for Callum Mills. The Swans secured their third top 10 academy pick last year when they drafted Nick Blakey with pick 10 (even though Heeney wasn't technically drafted with a top 10 pick, he was bid on with a top 10 pick and therefore I view him as a top 10 quality player).

Perhaps unsurprisingly due to the population difference, Brisbane and Gold Coast have had the least luck with academy talent coming through. Gold Coast have secure one top 10 player (2016 Pick 10: Jack Bowes) and Brisbane have had just ONE top 20 pick come through their academy, which occurred in 2015 when they secured Eric Hipwood with pick 14. This means North Melbourne's NGA academy has already outperformed both the Suns and Lions when it produced Pick 8 Tarryn Thomas at last year's draft.

So the northern academies have proven to not be that advantageous in Queensland and inequalities that did exist with the New South Wales academies have been addressed.
 

sr36

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Other than Mills and Heeney, who else? NO ONE! Instead of complaining about the northern academies maybe you should be complaining that Kochie isn't running his club in the same way that the Swans are running theirs.
If you look at Hawthorn's rise and dominance of the competition over the last 45 years, you can't really ignore that having the best recruiting zone throughout the 70s and 80s in a massive growth area played a significant part in their rise.

With the move towards equalisation, the difficulty of making zones equal saw them abolished. We're now moving back towards zones. If we value equalisation still, we need to ensure the zones are equal, which we don't seem to be attempting to do. That's the concern of clubs in southern states. If we value equalisation, it's a valid concern.
 

Bandicoot

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You been listening to Woman's weekly to much size doesn't matter! Ha

He starred in the under 16 rep games this year. I know one team who really rates him has him top 3 atm
If that club wants to select him at 3 they can take him. Sure, he played well in the recent game played on GF day but he is nowhere near a top 5 selection.
 

Bandicoot

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Hell let's only have 2 teams. That way you're either 1 or the other.
The 1st expansion North happened before any of the expansion West so you are basically saying that the entire expansion out of the VFL is a failure. Which is laughable.
Explained many a time as said above.
Why did the VFA expand to include Collingwood?
The Collingwood addition was a terrible mistake.
 
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GC2015

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If you look at Hawthorn's rise and dominance of the competition over the last 45 years, you can't really ignore that having the best recruiting zone throughout the 70s and 80s in a massive growth area played a significant part in their rise.

With the move towards equalisation, the difficulty of making zones equal saw them abolished. We're now moving back towards zones. If we value equalisation still, we need to ensure the zones are equal, which we don't seem to be attempting to do. That's the concern of clubs in southern states. If we value equalisation, it's a valid concern.
What are you talking about? My post last post (which you liked) literally outlines two measures the AFL has undertaken in the last five years to make the academy situation more fair. The rules will progressively change as inequalities become obvious.
 

General Giant

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You keep telling me it's been explained many times. I haven't actually read an explanation that makes sense yet.

The only explanations I've read are:

A circular one where we need to grow because we need more money so we can grow.

We need to grow to have more money to protect from financial ruin, which doesn't hold up when you look at the amount of clubs that have collapsed or relocated in large leagues in other countries, or the number of businesses that have folded as the consequence of expansion.

We need to grow to expand the player pool. Sydney have been in the league for 35 years, we're yet to have gotten enough of an increase in players from Sydney to fill one playing list, let alone 2. So far we've shrunk the player pool in relative terms.

It just seems to me that we need to question the concept that we need to grow, because it's a concept that is driving the AFL, so it really needs to be justifiable.

I'm not suggesting unwinding the growth that has already occurred. That'd be screwing over new supporters such as yourself, just as the desire for expansion screwed over South Melbourne and Fitzroy supporters. I'm just questioning the ongoing obsession with continual growth.
Makes sense to someone who wants it the way it was as the VFL? Never happen.

No amount of sense being discussed will get through to someone who has rose coloured glasses on about a part time state based comp.
 

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sr36

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Makes sense to someone who wants it the way it was as the VFL? Never happen.

No amount of sense being discussed will get through to someone who has rose coloured glasses on about a part time state based comp.
I'm not looking back with rose coloured glasses. I think some of the expansion has been fabulous. I'm just questioning why growth should be viewed as an end in itself. I think you should target growth if there is a good reason to do so, but you don't seem to be able to give me a good reason to do so, other than the motto that growth is good, which seems to be the AFLs motto too. I think that motto needs to be questioned and justified if the AFL is to continue on an expansionary path.
 

sr36

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What are you talking about? My post last post (which you liked) literally outlines two measures the AFL has undertaken in the last five years to make the academy situation more fair. The rules will progressively change as inequalities become obvious.
I wrote my post before reading your post. You made some excellent points in that post. The AFL is doing something to balance the zones, however when comparing expansion teams, do you really think the AFL have attempted to make Freos zone equal to the Northern academies? It seems pretty clear that the AFL is putting its expansionary goals above its equalisation goals, which is why some are annoyed with the Northern academies, because some of us value equalisation and a level playing field more highly than we value expansion.
 

General Giant

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I'm not looking back with rose coloured glasses. I think some of the expansion has been fabulous. I'm just questioning why growth should be viewed as an end in itself. I think you should target growth if there is a good reason to do so, but you don't seem to be able to give me a good reason to do so, other than the motto that growth is good, which seems to be the AFLs motto too. I think that motto needs to be questioned and justified if the AFL is to continue on an expansionary path.
You're not? Hmmm your posts say otherwise.


It's not viewed as an end at all.

There is very good reasons, has been said on this thread and elsewhere, as to why we have had expansion. You don't get it fine by me. The people in charge do.

Why shouldn't we have a club in the national comp?

Your insular VFL viewpoint thankfully is not shared by the majority.
 

General Giant

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I wrote my post before reading your post. You made some excellent points in that post. The AFL is doing something to balance the zones, however when comparing expansion teams, do you really think the AFL have attempted to make Freos zone equal to the Northern academies? It seems pretty clear that the AFL is putting its expansionary goals above its equalisation goals, which is why some are annoyed with the Northern academies, because some of us value equalisation and a level playing field more highly than we value expansion.
Great.
Share the Grand Final around, make it a 17 game season with everyone playing each other once and make sure all 3rd party deals for clubs are the same and also live fta tv rotations for all and we can then talk about axing the Northern Academies.



After all you are all about an equal and fair competition yeah?
 

sr36

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You're not? Hmmm your posts say otherwise.


It's not viewed as an end at all.

There is very good reasons, has been said on this thread and elsewhere, as to why we have had expansion. You don't get it fine by me. The people in charge do.

Why shouldn't we have a club in the national comp?

Your insular VFL viewpoint thankfully is not shared by the majority.
You keep telling me about these very good reasons, why don't you actually tell me what they are. I'm not actually closed on the topic of expansion, I just haven't yet been convinced of its desirability.
 

Peel67skin

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You keep telling me about these very good reasons, why don't you actually tell me what they are. I'm not actually closed on the topic of expansion, I just haven't yet been convinced of its desirability.
You need to know that we don't have all the answer for you, here is a discussion forum not I want to know it all forum. Why discuss topics? because we have different view point. When smart phone came out there is lot of people get annoyed by it also.
 

General Giant

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You keep telling me about these very good reasons, why don't you actually tell me what they are. I'm not actually closed on the topic of expansion, I just haven't yet been convinced of its desirability.
Been said many a time. Google and the search function are your friend.

Hell just look to previous posts in this thread.

Great so will you tell your club to hand in its licence? After all it's an expansion club in the beginning wasn't it?
 

Taylor

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I do think the AFL has a preferred success priority list and those clubs start in NSW and QLD, and the other end of the list finishes with the WA and SA sides.

The league doesn't really gain anything from a Freo premiership, Freo is relatively financially secure in this sport.

If a club can get itself out of the primarily AFL funded list with a flag, they'd so much rather that team did.

The draft is designed to bring success to all the clubs on an 18 year rotation, but the system has never been left to do that for long without concessions being brought in to speed up the success for the lower clubs.

The AFL just stacks concessions on top of concessions to balance out the concessions they gave out earlier.

Until NSW and QLD are contributing at least as many players as the four sides there are taking each year in the draft then the rest of the competition is diminished, this is just a short term thing.

There are so many players in the league now that are making their teams better that joined their teams as an AFL concession, be it father sons taken with the next available pick, academy players, priority picks etc.

There might only be a few clubs without any of those, but they are behind the pack and need to keep up with their own.

I don't blame anyone in any club wanting to get a better rort for their side in the total basket case of equalization measures currently muddying the process
 

sr36

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Been said many a time. Google and the search function are your friend.

Hell just look to previous posts in this thread.

Great so will you tell your club to hand in its licence? After all it's an expansion club in the beginning wasn't it?
I'm not advocating screwing over any supporter base by having teams fold. I'm not advocating teams folding at all. We've expanded already, we need to look after all of our members and supporters. I'm just questioning whether expansion and growth should be goals that we continue to pursue at the expense of other goals.
 
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sr36

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You need to know that we don't have all the answer for you, here is a discussion forum not I want to know it all forum. Why discuss topics? because we have different view point. When smart phone came out there is lot of people get annoyed by it also.
I agree, but if lots of people are telling me that growth is great, I think it's fair enough for me to ask, why is it great?
 

sr36

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Great.
Share the Grand Final around, make it a 17 game season with everyone playing each other once and make sure all 3rd party deals for clubs are the same and also live fta tv rotations for all and we can then talk about axing the Northern Academies.



After all you are all about an equal and fair competition yeah?
Absolutely, there are lots of inequalities in the system. Just as its fair enough for interstate supporters to complain about MCG grand finals, it's also fair enough for other supporters to complain about Northern academies.

The question that I'm asking is, does the desire for money and growth justify these inequalities in the system. Should money and growth be the primary motives for AFL decision making. I personally dont think they should be, but believe that they currently are.
 

Peel67skin

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Absolutely, there are lots of inequalities in the system. Just as its fair enough for interstate supporters to complain about MCG grand finals, it's also fair enough for other supporters to complain about Northern academies.

The question that I'm asking is, does the desire for money and growth justify these inequalities in the system. Should money and growth be the primary motives for AFL decision making. I personally dont think they should be, but believe that they currently are.
My question that I'm asking do you think your thinking is 100% right all the time , if your answer is yes, better don't ask question from other, because it is a waste of your time and other.
 

GC2015

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I'm not advocating screwing over any supporter base by having teams fold. I'm not advocating teams folding at all. We've expanded already, we need to look after all of our members and supporters. I'm just questioning whether expansion and growth should be goals that we continue to pursue at the expense of other goals.
Do we though? Total members of AFL clubs is at an all-time high (source) as are attendances (source). Members and supporters are consuming our game more now than they ever have. Does that not suggest the current model is working?
 

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