Academy Sydney Academy in 2020 another bonanza

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
14,017
18,402
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
The benefits. Ask the players how deep their pockets are now thanks to the tv revenue.
Two points on that:
1. Should the league be serving the players, rather than the other way around? The league will remain great because of the game itself and its supporters.
2. Massive increases in tv revenue have occurred primarily because of the decision to allow live coverage and because of increases in competitiveness in the tv industry. Sure, revenues have increased by more than they would have because there are more games and a bigger viewership in the Northern states, but is it by a factor that compensates for the revenues needing to be more widely distributed due to the expansion?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
1,216
1,279
AFL Club
Gold Coast
The funny thing is whenever expansion is questioned. You get called backwards, but noone can actually explain the benefits. Yes, you get more players and fans, but you need more players and fans and we still haven't caught up with the extra players and fans that were needed from the first expansion nirth. Why did we go with the second expansion?
It's really quite simple. Rupert Murdoch/News Limited publicly stated a significant factor in the $2.5 billion broadcasting rights deal signed with the AFL in 2015 was the growth of Australian rules football in New South Wales and Queensland. News Limited went one step further and committed to providing further resources to help grow the game in NSW and QLD because they recognise the enormous growth opportunities that exist in those markets. Just for context, the broadcasting deal signed in 2011 was worth $1.25 billion.

It's really not that surprising when you consider 50% of the country's population live in NSW or QLD, and more specifically, over 9 million people live in the Sydney and South East Queensland markets which is where the AFL decided to expand into. People can say what they want about western Sydney and Gold Coast not deserving AFL teams over Tasmania but what the AFL have done makes sense from a business perspective and that is king when you're dealing with these kinds of massive amounts of money. The AFL must keep the broadcasters happy and will continue to help the clubs based in NSW and QLD for that reason.

McLachlan and Murdoch would have been very happy to see GWS in the grand final this year because they know their plan to expand further in the Sydney market is working and that means more $$$ for those at the top. From a fan perspective, our game is nothing without the massive money handed over by the broadcasters and that's something people tend to forget when discussing this topic.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
14,017
18,402
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
It's really quite simple. Rupert Murdoch/News Limited publicly stated a significant factor in the $2.5 billion broadcasting rights deal signed with the AFL in 2015 was the growth of Australian rules football in New South Wales and Queensland. News Limited went one step further and committed to providing further resources to help grow the game in NSW and QLD because they recognise the enormous growth opportunities that exist in those markets.

It's really not that surprising when you consider 50% of the country's population live in NSW or QLD, and more specifically, over 9 million people live in the Sydney and South East Queensland markets which is where the AFL decided to expand into. People can say what they want about western Sydney and Gold Coast not deserving AFL teams over Tasmania but what the AFL have done makes sense from a business perspective and that is king when you're dealing with these kinds of massive amounts of money. The AFL must keep the broadcasters happy and will continue to help the clubs based in NSW and QLD for that reason.

McLachlan and Murdoch would have been very happy to see GWS in the grand final this year because they know their plan to expand further in the Sydney market is working and that means more $$$ for those at the top. From a fan perspective, our game is nothing without the massive money handed over by the broadcasters and that's something people tend to forget when discussing this topic.
I understand all of that, but it's a not for profit organisation. What is the actual benefit of the extra dollars?

We need to grow, so we need more dollars. We need more dollars so we can grow. If we conquer the North East of Australia, we'll get more dollars and can grow further. The logical next step beyond Australia is to turn our attention to New Zealand so that we can grow further and get more dollars, and then, and then ...

But why can't we just remain a fantastic boutique product that serves our current markets fabulously. Does growth help us to serve our members better?

We've already expanded into Gold Coast and GWS (I personally wouldn't have done it). We need to look after those people that we've wined, dined and wooed, but why should we keep going and why should we offer better deals to our new customers than our older loyal customers?
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
1,216
1,279
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I understand all of that, but it's a not for profit organisation. What is the actual benefit of the extra dollars?

We need to grow, so we need more dollars. We need more dollars so we can grow. If we conquer the North East of Australia, we'll get more dollars and can grow further. The logical next step beyond Australia is to turn our attention to New Zealand so that we can grow further and get more dollars, and then, and then ...

But why can't we just remain a fantastic boutique product that serves our current markets fabulously. Does growth help us to serve our members better?

We've already expanded into Gold Coast and GWS (I personally wouldn't have done it). We need to look after those people that we've wined, dined and wooed, but why should we keep going and why should we offer better deals to our new customers than our older loyal customers?
This is the exact mentality that would have seen us remain in the dark ages of no national competition where everyone was going broke and the players were paid peanuts. Growth is the logical step forward for any sport and you either get on board and support it or you become bitter and reminisce on the 'good old days' that really weren't that good. Nostalgia can be very misleading.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
14,017
18,402
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
This is the exact mentality that would have seen us remain in the dark ages of no national competition where everyone was going broke and the players were paid peanuts. Growth is the logical step forward for any sport and you either get on board and support it or you become bitter and reminisce on the 'good old days' that really weren't that good. Nostalgia can be very misleading.
Clubs in the VFL were going broke becasue they were run by cowboys and spent more than they could afford to spend, It's not growth that's stopping that, it's spending caps and the fact that the AFL controls a large amount of the revenues and distributes them to the clubs cautiously.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bitter. I love the AFL. I'm just questioning the need for growth. And to be honest, the only answer I'm getting back is that we need to grow because we need more supporters and money so that we can grow further. If growth is the logical step forward, what is the logic behind the step?
 

GC2015

Club Legend
May 27, 2013
1,216
1,279
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Clubs in the VFL were going broke becasue they were run by cowboys and spent more than they could afford to spend, It's not growth that's stopping that, it's spending caps and the fact that the AFL controls a large amount of the revenues and distributes them to the clubs cautiously.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not bitter. I love the AFL. I'm just questioning the need for growth. And to be honest, the only answer I'm getting back is that we need to grow because we need more supporters and money so that we can grow further. If growth is the logical step forward, what is the logic behind the step?
It wasn't just the clubs that were going broke. The league itself was completely broke as well and needed to charge West Coast and Brisbane licence fees of $4 million apiece just to stay afloat. Like it or not, expanding into WA and QLD literally kept the league alive in the late 80s.

I don't know why you're question the need for growth. Prior to Gold Coast and GWS joining the competition, we had one club in NSW representing over 7.5 million people and one club in QLD representing over 5 million people. It's really no different to the NFL's recent expansion into the Los Angeles market. LA is the second biggest market in the United States and the NFL were missing out on huge amounts of money by not having a presence there. Now they have two teams in LA.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
14,017
18,402
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
It wasn't just the clubs that were going broke. The league itself was completely broke as well and needed to charge West Coast and Brisbane licence fees of $4 million apiece just to stay afloat. Like it or not, expanding into WA and QLD literally kept the league alive in the late 80s.

I don't know why you're question the need for growth. Prior to Gold Coast and GWS joining the competition, we had one club in NSW representing over 7.5 million people and one club in QLD representing over 5 million people. It's really no different to the NFL's recent expansion into the Los Angeles market. LA is the second biggest market in the United States and the NFL were missing out on huge amounts of money by not having a presence there. Now they have two teams in LA.
The VFL, like the clubs was also financially irresponsible.

Im questioning the need to grow the game because it isn't being questioned. You've given me examples of an American sports organisation that prioritised growth, but NFL have had a heap of clubs fold or be forced to relocate over the years. Growth of the NFL hasn't been the financially protective device that you're suggesting it is. It seems to be assumed that making it bigger and making more money should be the primary goal of a not for profit organisation. They don't withdraw profits or distribute dividends. Why does making growth to make more money matter?
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
40,178
42,097
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
AFL could stick to Victoria, WA and SA. It would see soccer take over as the national football code within 25 years and there is wayyyy more money in that at the top level than the dozen guys in the AFl who make a million a year.
 

Wines to cripps

Debutant
Oct 15, 2019
51
23
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Swans are dead set lucky these two players are coming in the middle of a rebuild. I rate Errol top 2!

If Campbell keeps improving he will be top 10. Wouldn't be stunned to see swans on draft night trade in 2020 picks
 

briztoon

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2015
8,365
7,867
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Swans are dead set lucky these two players are coming in the middle of a rebuild. I rate Errol top 2!

If Campbell keeps improving he will be top 10. Wouldn't be stunned to see swans on draft night trade in 2020 picks
lol.

Gulden?!? Top 2. :D

Gulden has more chance of being a second round pick, than a top 5 pick. It would take a 10cm growth spurt for him to seriously be considered top 5.
 

Peel67skin

Norm Smith Medallist
May 21, 2017
6,932
3,187
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool
AFL could stick to Victoria, WA and SA. It would see soccer take over as the national football code within 25 years and there is wayyyy more money in that at the top level than the dozen guys in the AFl who make a million a year.
The different between soccer and AFL are fans and gambling business. Peoples from Asia would put a lot of money in betting in soccer, not yet include the underground betting business. Don't like Italian league, bet in EPL, German, French, Italian league.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Wines to cripps

Debutant
Oct 15, 2019
51
23
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
lol.

Gulden?!? Top 2. :D

Gulden has more chance of being a second round pick, than a top 5 pick. It would take a 10cm growth spurt for him to seriously be considered top 5.
You been listening to Woman's weekly to much size doesn't matter! Ha

He starred in the under 16 rep games this year. I know one team who really rates him has him top 3 atm
 

Peel67skin

Norm Smith Medallist
May 21, 2017
6,932
3,187
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool
You been listening to Woman's weekly to much size doesn't matter! Ha

He starred in the under 16 rep games this year. I know one team who really rates him has him top 3 atm
Don't really matter wait until next year, rating change all the time. Just because one team you knew rated him top 3 mean nothing because they might not have top 5 pick at all.
 

Wines to cripps

Debutant
Oct 15, 2019
51
23
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Don't really matter wait until next year, rating change all the time. Just because one team you knew rated him top 3 mean nothing because they might not have top 5 pick at all.
I rate this post 7 out of 10.. ( bad joke) I agree but..

Has a club ever had 2 0r plus players go top 20 in a draft ? Swans had mills and heeney a year apart roos kinda did last year. Be instresting what the view would be from the footy community if a team got 2 of the best players in a draft year..
 

Peel67skin

Norm Smith Medallist
May 21, 2017
6,932
3,187
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool
I rate this post 7 out of 10.. ( bad joke) I agree but..

Has a club ever had 2 0r plus players go top 20 in a draft ? Swans had mills and heeney a year apart roos kinda did last year. Be instresting what the view would be from the footy community if a team got 2 of the best players in a draft year..
I rated this post 10/10 ( not a joke just used as examples rating Varies from different person).
 

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
32,716
24,614
AFL Club
GWS
The funny thing is whenever expansion is questioned. You get called backwards, but noone can actually explain the benefits.
Rightly called backwards.

Been explained more times than most people eat in a year.


Yes, you get more players and fans, but you need more players and fans and we still haven't caught up with the extra players and fans that were needed from the first expansion nirth.
By that reasoning why don't we have only 6 teams? 1 in each state?
Hell let's only have 2 teams. That way you're either 1 or the other.

The 1st expansion North happened before any of the expansion West so you are basically saying that the entire expansion out of the VFL is a failure. Which is laughable.

Why did we go with the second expansion North
Explained many a time as said above.

Why did the VFA expand to include Collingwood?
 

Opts

Club Legend
Aug 18, 2017
2,048
2,386
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions
I rate this post 7 out of 10.. ( bad joke) I agree but..

Has a club ever had 2 0r plus players go top 20 in a draft ? Swans had mills and heeney a year apart roos kinda did last year. Be instresting what the view would be from the footy community if a team got 2 of the best players in a draft year..
Other than Mills and Heeney, who else? NO ONE! Instead of complaining about the northern academies maybe you should be complaining that Kochie isn't running his club in the same way that the Swans are running theirs.
 

Wines to cripps

Debutant
Oct 15, 2019
51
23
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other than Mills and Heeney, who else? NO ONE! Instead of complaining about the northern academies maybe you should be complaining that Kochie isn't running his club in the same way that the Swans are running theirs.
Why are so triggered ?ruok? I don't even support port 🤦‍♂️

It was a simple question and opinion which funny enough might happen on a forum.
 

briztoon

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2015
8,365
7,867
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Has a club ever had 2 0r plus players go top 20 in a draft ?
GWS has.


But seriously, so what. Good on them for developing top end talent. That’s the whole point of the academies.

At least we’re developing talent that a) night never have played AFL; b) kept players in the system who might have been lost to the game.
 

Wines to cripps

Debutant
Oct 15, 2019
51
23
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
GWS has.


But seriously, so what. Good on them for developing top end talent. That’s the whole point of the academies.

At least we’re developing talent that a) night never have played AFL; b) kept players in the system who might have been lost to the game.
Totally agree it's great for the afl to get top talent from the zones .

just we saw after the heeney draft the rules change (bidding) . Then again with the swans trading with the eagles last year. Hope the afl stick fat long term as I could see vic media melting if say the swans had 3 top 10 talents ..
 

GUMBLETRON

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 1, 2008
13,008
13,518
NASA
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg
GWS has.

But seriously, so what. Good on them for developing top end talent. That’s the whole point of the academies.

At least we’re developing talent that a) night never have played AFL; b) kept players in the system who might have been lost to the game.
Except the overwhelming majority of GWS academy picks have come from footy-playing regions like the Riverina, to the degree the AFL had to remove part of that zone because they simply weren't sufficiently involved in development. They've had a whole two kids developed out of actual Greater Western Sydney.
 

Bandicoot

Premiership Player
Feb 2, 2016
4,450
3,000
Ballarat, Victoria
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Melbourne Renegades
Swans are the only club not selecting a player because they are flight risk?

Didn't you have Daniher wanting to come to your club?

Seriously, the Swans don't have a retention issue.
Daniher had the option of going to Sydney as an 18 year old yet preferred to stay in Melbourne. It's not so much as he wants to come to the Swans now but moreso that he wants to get out of the media bubble that is Melbourne during the footy season.
The only reason that Sydney have retained so many players over the past decade has been their success. How many players have chosen to leave Geelong, Hawthorn or West Coast over the past decade. Once they become a middle of the road club, a lot more of the Victorians Wil want to go home.
 

Bandicoot

Premiership Player
Feb 2, 2016
4,450
3,000
Ballarat, Victoria
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Melbourne Renegades
im all for expanding the talent pool as i do think the overall quality of players has dropped with too many teams, but is there any evidence that the talent pool has expanded? or is expanding? or is this just another zoning of players from certain areas to clubs, which i think is closer to whats happening.

all clubs have been given a zone, all clubs will benefit from those zones, the northern states have access to ALL talent in their zones and because of the smaller number of players in their zones the AFL has decided that every other clubs zones will be limited to Aboriginal kids and Immigrants which matches the number of all the northern states academies, i would argue none of the academies encourages more than 10% to play AFL because the majority of these kids would have already made that decision whether an academy exists or not imo (northern or aboriginal/immigrant players) so therefore what role does it play? to encourage northern AFL teams to take the qld/nsw talent to ensure they have a loyal group with no go home factor and to encourage local support from communities these players hail from, the aboriginal/immigrant schemes are to counter this and to ensure aboriginals and immigrants get more opportunities to succeed as the AFL believe in "diversity is our strength" politics, that also could help negate their northern academy projects to seem fair to all clubs.

thats my take on this issue, all other takes on this issue seem like lies and misinformation to me.
I disagree with your comment that kids have already made up their mind about what sport they will continue with. Heeney has regularly made the comment that if the Swan's academy was not in place, he would almost certainly be playing rugby now.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
14,017
18,402
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
Been explained more times than most people eat in a year

Explained many a time as said above.
You keep telling me it's been explained many times. I haven't actually read an explanation that makes sense yet.

The only explanations I've read are:

A circular one where we need to grow because we need more money so we can grow.

We need to grow to have more money to protect from financial ruin, which doesn't hold up when you look at the amount of clubs that have collapsed or relocated in large leagues in other countries, or the number of businesses that have folded as the consequence of expansion.

We need to grow to expand the player pool. Sydney have been in the league for 35 years, we're yet to have gotten enough of an increase in players from Sydney to fill one playing list, let alone 2. So far we've shrunk the player pool in relative terms.

It just seems to me that we need to question the concept that we need to grow, because it's a concept that is driving the AFL, so it really needs to be justifiable.

I'm not suggesting unwinding the growth that has already occurred. That'd be screwing over new supporters such as yourself, just as the desire for expansion screwed over South Melbourne and Fitzroy supporters. I'm just questioning the ongoing obsession with continual growth.
 
Last edited:

Top Bottom