Club Focus Sydney Academy in 2020 another bonanza

[Taylor]

All of the academies are a scam afforded to balance a previous scam.

Fremantle exists because the VFL was worried all the WA players would move home to West Coast and get paid outside the cap to show up to car dealerships bbqs and on the news.

NGA is an answer to complaints about the northern academies giving clubs access to extra elite talent in a system where the next pick is enough to secure it.

...just like father son picks were, which was also changed when the benefit started to heavily advantage a club over another.

The AFL has gotten to the point where clubs need to be getting that extra elite father son or academy player to keep touch with the rest assuming all clubs have the same injuries.

Especially clubs without long histories of father son pick options. Last time I checked Freo has only 40 guys qualify for their sons to be selected by Freo under the 100 game rule and almost all of them only finished playing in the last five to ten years so there won't be any sons out of them for another ten years.

The advantages for clubs to secure extra elite talent lingers in the competition for a decade or more. The example of this is Hawkins/Selwood. Under current rules Geelong only have Hawkins, their first rounder would have been chewed up on him, instead they got him for a third round pick and the extra elite player at #7... and they've benefited from that for a long time.

Priority picks, father son picks, academy picks etc all compromise the system and advantage the team that benefits from securing the player for the career of the player.

Freo shouldn't have special access to Henry, but it's the only help we will get.

The access to the metro indigenous guys after pick 40 next year is far more reasonable of a system. In theory it gives all clubs two chances to pick the WA player and after that Freo/WCE can mitigate the risk of taking the player by not using a pick on him.

At least the current system makes the club pay something closer to the value of the priority access player.

That discount could be the means by which investment in the junior could be rewarded, five years and high school paid for = 50% discount. Etc

Bare min time in the system and showing up for a few training sessions = 0% discount

No time in the system and just living in a zone = 0% discount and no priority access.

We need to build the game in NSW and QLD, rewarding earlier and greater investment in junior programs is the way to go in my opinion. Not interested in removing access for those clubs, that's counter intuitive.

 

[Kummerspeck]

That discount could be the means by which investment in the junior could be rewarded, five years and high school paid for = 50% discount. Etc

Bare min time in the system and showing up for a few training sessions = 0% discount

No time in the system and just living in a zone = 0% discount and no priority access.

That's actually the best suggestion I've read. No doubt there would be some manipulation (clubs will always look for a shortcut) but it would be a much better system than now in terms of rewarding the development of players.

 

[briztoon]

Swans are the only club not selecting a player because they are flight risk?

Didn't you have Daniher wanting to come to your club?

Seriously, the Swans don't have a retention issue.

The Brisbane recruiters at the Lions AFL draft function each year talk about the kids they rule out as flight risks.

That includes kids who are consensus top 10 picks each year.

Bailey Smith was a bit of an anomaly last year, in that he was the rare kid to publicly say he didn’t want to move interstate.

 

[eastfreo75]

The Brisbane recruiters at the Lions AFL draft function each year talk about the kids they rule out as flight risks.

That includes kids who are consensus top 10 picks each year.

Bailey Smith was a bit of an anomaly last year, in that he was the rare kid to publicly say he didn’t want to move interstate.

All clubs would be discussing flight risks of all players.

A Victorian metro kid is more of a flight risk in Queensland, WA and SA than Sydney.

Fremantle and Adelaide has lost more players than Sydney.

 

[Opts]

So Heeney, Mills and Blakey plus the two first rounders next isn’t an advantage?

You can talk all you like about NSW being a Rugby state, but the proof is the amount of NSW players in the AFL compared to remote communities in far North WA.

By the way, we aren’t comparing WA vs NSW. We comparing the access to elite talent.

I’m not sure you understand what West Coast and Fremantle have access to in the NGA.

Majority of First Nations people in WA are off limits to both NGA’s.

It’s only remote communities.

You're being very selective with your "statistics" and I use that term very loosely. Comparing the number of recruits from the Freo NGA academy which has only been in existence a few years to the number of recruits from the Swans academy which has been in existence for a decade is absurd.

BTW you're full of it because Gulden and Campbell won't both be first round selections. One will possibly be late first round and thew other will be second round based on current form and their small frames. You're exaggerating their positions to try to help your argument.

 

[Opts]

I don't understand why you keep taking the worse angle. If kids pick up the game and it grows to the level of rugby, AFL will march in and start two more clubs easily - north shore and sutherland/Cronulla etc.

Swans won't have them all and they are already being kept honest with bidding system and paying fair value. It will in fact leave a much bigger pool of players for rest of the clubs. Brisbane had Wylie Buzza, Mabior Chol, Declan Watson, Corey Wagner to name a few, who are all from academy who are all in other clubs now.

I struggle to understand big bad sydney getting all good players and ruining the game tangent, when all other clubs have been given similar rights to poach talent from their doorstep in AFL heartland where kids pick up the game at a very early age. It's a dumb argument to say the least.

He's clearly inventing an argument because he hates the Swans so much, for some reason. GWS has much better recruiting zones than the Swans and he's completely ignoring them.

 

[Taylor]

It would look a lot worse if the NGA system in WA and SA came in a few years earlier.

I think Rankine and Petrevski Seton were going to qualify for Adelaide and Fremantle.

 

[mpal6]

It would look a lot worse if the NGA system in WA and SA came in a few years earlier.

I think Rankine and Petrevski Seton were going to qualify for Adelaide and Fremantle.

Don't worry, it will happen again - I'm thinking even next year will start prompting a re-think- and AFL will go, ermm may be we went too far the other way and stuffed up draft now.

Or they'll delay until the 4th quaynor gets to pies

 

[Opts]

Swans are the only club not selecting a player because they are flight risk?

Didn't you have Daniher wanting to come to your club?

Seriously, the Swans don't have a retention issue.

You really aren't too bright are you? What don't you understand about the numbers of AFL players in each state?

Every club has flight risk, however the % of that flight risk in AFL states is about 10% and 5% in Victoria whilst the flight risk in NSW and Qld is about 90%. The northern clubs have to pay interstate players more to keep them there.

 

[Taylor]

Or they'll delay until the 4th quaynor gets to pies

Just quietly, this is heavily linked to the reason why systems have changed to grant access to other clubs.

 

[Opts]

The Brisbane recruiters at the Lions AFL draft function each year talk about the kids they rule out as flight risks.

That includes kids who are consensus top 10 picks each year.

Bailey Smith was a bit of an anomaly last year, in that he was the rare kid to publicly say he didn’t want to move interstate.

Cyril Rioli, for example, openly stated that he wouldn't move interstate. Every year there are several who let the word get out that they don't want to move interstate and many, many more who, although they don't openly state it, give the impression to their interviewers that they don't want to move interstate. The northern clubs are severely disadvantaged in drafting but the AFL states refuse to acknowledge this because that would mean they have to acknowledge their advantage.

 

[Colonial]

He's clearly inventing an argument because he hates the Swans so much, for some reason. GWS has much better recruiting zones than the Swans and he's completely ignoring them.

He has actually brought us up multiple times.

Terrible attempt at a hospital pass.

 

[BlueJet]

Footy fans: expansion has diluted the talent pool, weakening the overall quality of the comp.

Also footy fans: attempts to build the talent pool favour particular teams and must be stopped.


On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Davo-27]

Footy fans: expansion has diluted the talent pool, weakening the overall quality of the comp.

Also footy fans: attempts to build the talent pool favour particular teams and must be stopped.


On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

im all for expanding the talent pool as i do think the overall quality of players has dropped with too many teams, but is there any evidence that the talent pool has expanded? or is expanding? or is this just another zoning of players from certain areas to clubs, which i think is closer to whats happening.

all clubs have been given a zone, all clubs will benefit from those zones, the northern states have access to ALL talent in their zones and because of the smaller number of players in their zones the AFL has decided that every other clubs zones will be limited to Aboriginal kids and Immigrants which matches the number of all the northern states academies, i would argue none of the academies encourages more than 10% to play AFL because the majority of these kids would have already made that decision whether an academy exists or not imo (northern or aboriginal/immigrant players) so therefore what role does it play? to encourage northern AFL teams to take the qld/nsw talent to ensure they have a loyal group with no go home factor and to encourage local support from communities these players hail from, the aboriginal/immigrant schemes are to counter this and to ensure aboriginals and immigrants get more opportunities to succeed as the AFL believe in "diversity is our strength" politics, that also could help negate their northern academy projects to seem fair to all clubs.

thats my take on this issue, all other takes on this issue seem like lies and misinformation to me.

 

[briztoon]

im all for expanding the talent pool as i do think the overall quality of players has dropped with too many teams, but is there any evidence that the talent pool has expanded? or is expanding? or is this just another zoning of players from certain areas to clubs, which i think is closer to whats happening.

all clubs have been given a zone, all clubs will benefit from those zones, the northern states have access to ALL talent in their zones and because of the smaller number of players in their zones the AFL has decided that every other clubs zones will be limited to Aboriginal kids and Immigrants which matches the number of all the northern states academies, i would argue none of the academies encourages more than 10% to play AFL because the majority of these kids would have already made that decision whether an academy exists or not imo (northern or aboriginal/immigrant players) so therefore what role does it play? to encourage northern AFL teams to take the qld/nsw talent to ensure they have a loyal group with no go home factor and to encourage local support from communities these players hail from, the aboriginal/immigrant schemes are to counter this and to ensure aboriginals and immigrants get more opportunities to succeed as the AFL believe in "diversity is our strength" politics, that also could help negate their northern academy projects to seem fair to all clubs.

thats my take on this issue, all other takes on this issue seem like lies and misinformation to me.

In regards to Brisbane, currently on our list.

Hipwood has said many times he would have kept playing cricket if the Brisbane academy didn’t exist.

We pulled Archie Smith from basketball in his top age year. Had never played AFL before.

We took Jack Payne from athletics. He was an international level junior in discus.

Harris Andrews has said he would never have been at this level with out the academy and credits specific academy coaches for keeping him in the sport.

Ballenden would be playing rugby union.

Fullarton would be playing basketball with the Brisbane Bullets, that’s where we signed him from as a Cat B rookie.

Our academy coaches actively approach kids playing other sports who exhibit AFL traits and size and invite them to academy training sessions.

100% the northern academies grow the talent pool and bring kids from other sports across, but the main thing the academies offer are, elite training on a par with the NAB league and exposure to competing against higher talent more often.

Without the academies up here, we would lose more top end talent.

Brisbane lost Kalyn Ponga from our academy to rugby league, because the money on offer to a then 17 year old was far greater in league than he could earn in AFL. Especially starting on a fixed rookie contract mandated by the AFL.

You guys don’t understand the sporting landscape up here, and the “fight” for talented juniors.

There are no scholarships to private schools for AFL kids. Only for rugby union, as private schools play union and public schools play league.

Even then, 14 and 15 year olds are signing $5k and $10k per year contracts, to make sure they head to league when they finish school.

If every kid in QLD played AFL, I’d understand your argument. But basics facts are the Lions and Suns don’t have access to every kid in QLD because more kids, especially the elite talents, play Union and League than play AFL.

Heck, AFL is only seriously making inroads because of the academies, combined with the work of AFLQ.

Gold Coast Suns are doing amazingly well with the public schools on the coast, with many public schools now having their own AFL “academies”, of course chock full of Suns academy kids. The Gold Coast schools dominate the QLD afl schools championships.

My old high school was one of the first private schools to bring in AFL in 2017. It helps that Hodge’s boy goes there, and Dan Merret is the first XVIII coach.

Where as it’s always been a Rugby Union school, and played soccer since the early 1980’s. But AFL was only introduced in 2017. No AFL scholarships yet though.

 

[Opts]

I'm from Melbourne but frequently travel to Sydney and Brisbane for work. If you want to know how unpopular AFL is in those cities you only need to look at how many rugby pitches there are compared to footy ovals.

 

[briztoon]

I'm from Melbourne but frequently travel to Sydney and Brisbane for work. If you want to know how unpopular AFL is in those cities you only need to look at how many rugby pitches there are compared to footy ovals.

Or cricket ovals that they don’t allow AFL to be played on over winter.

 

[Opts]

Unfortunately, the fact is, that players will nearly always want to return to home (or to family) regardless of any romantic situations that may be in place because once they become professionals those romantic attachments become irrelevant. Until 4 out of every 18 draftees, that's 23%, of all draftees available come from NSW and Qld. then the four northern clubs are going to be severely disadvantaged.

 

[Taylor]

Meanwhile WA players who are drafted outside of WA and choose to request a trade from that club are equally likely to choose to come back to WA as they are to continue their career at another interstate club.

I believe the SANFL players are also far more open minded about plying their trade nationally.

 

[Yoda_]

Do we have a dedicated academy/NGA thread or is this it?

As an Essendon supporter, we have two kids available in 2020 who look very likely prospects.

Cody Brand played the majority of the season as a 194cm key defender whilst Josh Eyre has raised a few eyebrows having been added to our NGA through 2019 and managed a couple of games also for Calder.

We also have a couple of father/son kids coming through but the two aforementioned are the main ones for us to keep an eye out for.

 

[Lore]

Meanwhile WA players who are drafted outside of WA and choose to request a trade from that club are equally likely to choose to come back to WA as they are to continue their career at another interstate club.

I believe the SANFL players are also far more open minded about plying their trade nationally.

You keep telling me I should make some sort of state of origin resource and I keep putting it off I've acquired the base data now so that's a start I suppose?

 

[Taylor]

You keep telling me I should make some sort of state of origin resource and I keep putting it off I've acquired the base data now so that's a start I suppose?

You do too much already!

 

[Kummerspeck]

im all for expanding the talent pool as i do think the overall quality of players has dropped with too many teams, but is there any evidence that the talent pool has expanded? or is expanding?

For NSW at least, at the start of 2010 (the year the academies started operating) there were 12 NSW players on lists, both rookie and main. At the start of this year, there were 4 players from NSW taken in the main draft alone and from just a check of the Giants and Swans list, there are 22 on those two lists, so...

I'd say it's expanding

 

[Opts]

Meanwhile WA players who are drafted outside of WA and choose to request a trade from that club are equally likely to choose to come back to WA as they are to continue their career at another interstate club.

I believe the SANFL players are also far more open minded about plying their trade nationally.

From a swans prospective that certainly seems to be the case. We have a history of avoiding players from WA and Vic metro and targeting players from SA and Vic Country. I believe that that's a good strategy from our recruiters based on past results.

 

[Opts]

Do we have a dedicated academy/NGA thread or is this it?

As an Essendon supporter, we have two kids available in 2020 who look very likely prospects.

Cody Brand played the majority of the season as a 194cm key defender whilst Josh Eyre has raised a few eyebrows having been added to our NGA through 2019 and managed a couple of games also for Calder.

We also have a couple of father/son kids coming through but the two aforementioned are the main ones for us to keep an eye out for.

This thread was originally created by Luv_my_club or something similar. It was clearly biased but we seem to have run with it. Another thread, specifically for likely prospects needs to be created.