Sydney Olympic Stadium to be demolished and rebuilt

Isaac Cumming No 1

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The Sydney stadiums issue to me seems to have the cart before the horse. They need a holistic approach, which is to centralise stadiums. I think they'd be better off moving cetral station to Moore Park, then letting the CBD, sports precinct develop around it. Central Station is a dive that doesn't service the CBD anyway.
This idea that ANZ having to remain bove 80k to comepte is also nonsense. With the exception of SoO and the NRL grand final, all the other big events like Man U etc are loss leaders, like $1 slurpees at 7/11, and if dubious benefit to the NSW taxpayer.
Until the NRL/ A-League are pulling 60k plus crowds, there is no reason to build stadiums larger that 50k. The MCG is only 100k becausethat number of people use it.
Moving central station to Moore park is like expecting the government to move a train station or freeway access close to your home. It would cost way more than the proposed stadium redevelopments, and inconvenience millions delivery day. The end result would be worse than the Olympic Park precinct, which is actually much under appreciated.
 

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General Giant

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Moving central station to Moore park is like expecting the government to move a train station or freeway access close to your home. It would cost way more than the proposed stadium redevelopments, and inconvenience millions delivery day. The end result would be worse than the Olympic Park precinct, which is actually much under appreciated.
Only problem with Olympic Park is the lack of pub, club, cafe venues.

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Isaac Cumming No 1

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Only problem with Olympic Park is the lack of pub, club, cafe venues.

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Last year there was a pop up bar opposite Spotless for most games. Not sure if it'll continue this year . Absolutely cafes etc, but I wonder if that's a marketing thing to get people to the Vendors in the ground?
The transport and capacity to deal with crowds is excellent overall in my view. As it should be after being setup for the Olympics with an unlimited budget.
 

General Giant

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Last year there was a pop up bar opposite Spotless for most games. Not sure if it'll continue this year . Absolutely cafes etc, but I wonder if that's a marketing thing to get people to the Vendors in the ground?
The transport and capacity to deal with crowds is excellent overall in my view. As it should be after being setup for the Olympics with an unlimited budget.
I dont think so. The main complaint is theres nothing to do after games and having vendors in the ground doesnt change that.

Transport is probably the best in the country access and variety wise.

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General Giant

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Old video but if they are sticking to it, all things that will improve the precinct

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Old video but if they are sticking to it, all things that will improve the precinct

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Stadium looks the same as it does now.

In America teams can leverage new or renovated stadiums that are better yet not quite neccessary by threatening to leave the town or playing on the fanbase.

ANZ Stadium's tenants have no ability to make the same threats or carry them out.

The sightlines do look bad on TV but I can't see a government paying for a big redo.
 
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General Giant

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Stadium looks the same as it does now.

In America teams can leverage new or renovated stadiums that are better yet not quite neccessary by threatening to leave the town or playing on the fanbase.

ANZ Stadium's tenants have no ability to make the same threats or carry them out.

The sightlines do look bad on TV but I can't see a government paying for a big redo.
I'm trying to find the video of the redesign of the stadium.
Looks completely different.

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No chance a revamp stadium politics are tooo hot ...
The great irony is previous Labor leader Foley, said he would redevelop Olympic / Stadium Australia as its the stadium for the working class in western Sydney and stop SFS being redeveloped in the east because its for the toffs in Liberal seat. Daley by campaigning so hard with his schools before stadiums policy has made it almost impossible if Labor were to win, to redevelop Olympic / Stadium Australia in the 2019-2023 parliament.

This is the time line, editing the following page

https://infrastructurepipeline.org/project/anz-stadium-redevelopment/
November 2017 the NSW Government had announced that it planned to knock down and rebuild both ANZ and Sydney Football stadiums. The NSW Government had estimated that the cost to rebuild ANZ Stadium would be approximately $1.25 billion, in addition to the $200 million the NSW Government spent on buying the stadium back from its private operator.

March 2018, the NSW Government back down and announcement that it will refurbish ANZ Stadium. This sees the Government revert back to the programme proposed under the Government in 2015, which was to refurbish ANZ Stadium.

The Infrastructure NSW (INSW) State Infrastructure Strategy, released in early March 2018, recommended that business cases for both ANZ and Allianz stadiums be completed in 2018. The NSW Government supported the recommendation in its response to the Strategy.

The strategic business case for ANZ Stadium, led by INSW, was issued to the NSW Government in late March 2018, which prompted the Government to instead commit to a refurbishment of the stadium. The strategic business case investigated three options, including:

- refurbishing/remodelling the stadium into a rectangular formation with 70,000 seat capacity ($810 million);
- a new stadium with 70,000 seat capacity ($1.292 billion); and
- a new stadium with 75,000 seat capacity (1.33 billion).

The strategic business case estimated that the rebuild options would be completed by September 2023, while the refurbishment option would be completed by July 2021. The business case found that the cost benefit ratios for all three options were similar. The NSW Government has opted for the refurbishment option, citing the $500 million saving and the estimated completion date being two years earlier. The refurbishment will extend the stadium life by a further 40 years.

The final business case is now being prepared by INSW. Construction is expected to start in late 2019, to be completed by mid-2021. The confirmation from the NSW Government of the refurbishment has resulted in NSW securing the NRL Grand Final in Sydney for the next 25 years
https://infrastructurepipeline.org/project/anz-stadium-redevelopment/

April 2018 NSW Legislative Council - Public Works Committee have an inquiry into Sydney Stadiums Strategy and received 330 submissions. It looked at a lot more than the 2 main stadiums that have been generating just about all the discussion the last few years.

27 September 2018 Public Works Committee released their report. The Committe chair was from the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party, 3 Liberals, 2 Labor and 1 Greens member.

SMH summary of the report.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/anz-stadium-revamp-should-be-postponed-parliamentary-committee-finds-20180927-p506ey.html
The state government should not proceed with its $810 million redevelopment of ANZ Stadium at Olympic Park until the construction of the new Allianz Stadium in Moore Park is finished in 2022, a NSW parliamentary committee has concluded.
The five-month-long inquiry also found that the Berejiklian government's multibillion-dollar stadium strategy did not meet the government's own infrastructure spending criteria, and recommended that an independent audit of the business case be conducted.

The findings were contained in a report published on Thursday by the Public Works Committee, which scrutinised the government's justifications for its $2 billion-plus stadium spree on a new stadium at Parramatta to open early next year, a replacement stadium at Moore Park, and a redevelopment of ANZ Stadium at Olympic Park. The controversy around the policy was further heightened this year after it was found that the $730 million rebuild of Allianz Stadium and the $810 million refurbishment of ANZ stadium failed to satisfy the government's own cost-benefit targets. For this reason, the committee recommended the government's approach to cost benefit analysis and its use and effectiveness in major government infrastructure decisions be scrutinised by a separate public inquiry.

The government held only a minority of positions on the inquiry, but the committee ultimately supported its case for demolishing and rebuilding Allianz Stadium, accepting the evidence that "significant safety and security concerns" required "immediate attention". However, it concluded that because "lessons may be learnt during the rollout" of the new 40,000 to 45,000-seat stadium at Moore Park, the refurbishment of ANZ Stadium should be postponed until the new stadium is built. "Postponing these works will also allow provide opportunity for the government to undertake comprehensive community consultation on the project," committee chairman Robert Brown MLC, from the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party said.

The report made a total of 10 recommendations, including that the government prioritise plans for a new indoor facility, after hearing evidence that the demolition of the Sydney Entertainment Centre in 2015 had left Sydney without a major indoor sports facility. It also found that the demolition of Parramatta's War Memorial Pool to make way for the Western Sydney Stadium "had severely disadvantaged the people of Parramatta", and called for the government to prioritise and fully fund the construction of a new facility.

In addition to Mr Brown, the committee comprised Liberal MLCs Scott MacDonald and Taylor Martin, National MLC Trevor Khan, Labor MLCs John Graham and Linda Voltz, and Greens MLC Justin Field.In a dissenting statement to the final report, Mr Field criticised the stadium policy for prioritising the "major male-dominated sporting codes" at the expense of other indoor sports, such as netball, and grassroots facilities....
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/anz-stadium-revamp-should-be-postponed-parliamentary-committee-finds-20180927-p506ey.html

You can read all the NSW Parliament Public Works Committe report at the following link but of its 10 Recommendations this is the one that relates to Olympic / Stadium Australia. The_Wookie there is some interesting data, especially in the second part of the report.

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/inquiries/2483/Final report - Sydney stadiums strategy.pdf
Recommendation 7........ page 37
That the NSW Government not proceed with the redevelopment of Stadium Australia until construction of the new Sydney Football Stadium is completed.

24 January 2019 this is the letter from the Sports Minister, Stuart Ayres, which contains the official government response to the 10 recommendations. This is the response to the above recommendation 7.

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/inquiries/2483/Sydney stadiums strategy - Government Response.pdf
Noted
The NSW Government has stated that it would prepare a final business case for the refurbishment (not redevelopment) of Stadium Australia for further consideration in the second quarter of 2019.


Recommendation 8 and the government response was interesting and one to watch.

Recommendation 8 ............ Page 46
That the NSW Government immediately commission an independent audit of the assumptions contained in the various business cases for stadia and publish the results of the audit on the Infrastructure NSW website.

Noted
Business cases for Western Sydney Stadium, Sydney Football Stadium and Stadium Australia (strategic) have been submitted to government are already subject to an independent review. This is the gateway review and is managed by NSW Treasury. The Gateway process provides an opportunity for major proposals to undergo an independent peer review at key stages of a project lifecycle. The role of the Gateway is to identify risks, provide advice and to challenge project justification, delivery and benefit realisation.

As the NSW Government's independent infrastructure advisory agency, Infrastructure NSW routinely assesses business cases and provides advice to Government on their findings. These independent assessments prepared by Infrastructure NSW, aim to find whether there is evidence that a proposed project is economically and socially justified. Business Case Summaries are published on the Infrastructure NSW webpage.
 

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I wonder what Labor are going to do with the SFS if they win. I mean the stadium is going to be demolished, they can't stop that, but they could easily say "build a 30,000 seat stadium instead" which would be a few hundred million cheaper.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I wonder what Labor are going to do with the SFS if they win. I mean the stadium is going to be demolished, they can't stop that, but they could easily say "build a 30,000 seat stadium instead" which would be a few hundred million cheaper.
They will find it impossible to stop the knockdown of SFS. Can't see Labor with a majority in the lower house, but they could be a minority government, so it probably depends on what the cross benches go for. Cross benches will have a say in the upper house.

The 30k option would set the cat among the pigeons and might actually accelerate the refurbishment of Stadium Australia. This final business case due by June this year, should carry some weight if its done by Infrastructure NSW and seen to be truly independent.
 

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General Giant

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I wonder what Labor are going to do with the SFS if they win. I mean the stadium is going to be demolished, they can't stop that, but they could easily say "build a 30,000 seat stadium instead" which would be a few hundred million cheaper.
I think you'll find the fans of clubs who play there would prefer a 25k to 30k stadium.

Think it's the big wigs who want 40+ which is ridiculous when we have a soon to be refurbished 80k ANZ down the road.

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RUNVS

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I think you'll find the fans of clubs who play there would prefer a 25k to 30k stadium.

Think it's the big wigs who want 40+ which is ridiculous when we have a soon to be refurbished 80k ANZ down the road.

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I think they would prefer a 30,000 seat stadium as well as that would suit 90% of NRL games at that stadium much more than a 50,000 seater would. Plus 30,000 seat stadiums are FAR cheaper to build as the most expensive parts of stadiums are the upper levels, things you don't need to build nearly as much of in smaller stadiums.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I think they would prefer a 30,000 seat stadium as well as that would suit 90% of NRL games at that stadium much more than a 50,000 seater would. Plus 30,000 seat stadiums are FAR cheaper to build as the most expensive parts of stadiums are the upper levels, things you don't need to build nearly as much of in smaller stadiums.
Depends how much you want to spend on corporate facilities and expensive type stadium memberships. They cost plenty but they bring in plenty of big $$.

Here is a break down of the catering revenue for AO from the Stadium management Authority submission to the recent SA Parliament Select Committee inquiry in the proposed AO Hotel. Game day includes footy and cricket games. Major events includes other sports, concerts and hiring rooms for seminars, conventions, weddings etc.

AO is set up so all its main corporate areas, the kitchens are big enough that they could serve up to 2,000 meals at lunch time and dinner time for the 2 main rooms McLachlan (approx 500 sit down meals) and Magarey (approx 800 sit down meals), 2 restaurants and several other rooms that can host 100 people for sit down meals, plus finger food for corporate box areas. AO was set up with the kitchens and stadium to be able to be used 365 days a year and that's why they are pushing for new revenue streams like catering for events outside the stadium, concerts on the village green area behind the western stand, roof climb opertions and now the hotel.


1552288178878.png
 

Kwality

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Here is a break down of the catering revenue for AO from the Stadium management Authority submission to the recent SA Parliament Select Committee inquiry in the proposed AO Hotel. Game day includes footy and cricket games. Major events includes other sports, concerts and hiring rooms for seminars, conventions, weddings etc.
Love to see similar numbers on Perth/Optus, but I wont hold my breath (Eagles numbers this week?)
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Love to see similar numbers on Perth/Optus, but I wont hold my breath (Eagles numbers this week?)
Only reason we are seeing it, is because politicians forced them to provide them to try and justify the SA government giving them a $42m loan - because they couldn't get 100% financing from the banks - to build this hotel on the east side of the Oval. Otherwise they were never going to reveal this info.
 

Dirty Bird

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Direct train 11 minutes depending on the event, they're often every couple of minutes. The East side of central is Surry Hills.
I get you have a different view. To me Moore Park is really hard to get to and I hate the place.
I used to live at West ryde
Homebush vs scg was similar
Homebush, straight down concord road, get off At the dfo, and park at the carpark where they set up the rides at the royal Easter show
Scg, Victoria road, Anzac bridge, cross city tunnel, then park at Victoria barracks.

Only issue in either trip is the traffic at the roundabout at the dfo.
But neither was an issue.
Having said that, I don’t think I ever did a Friday’s night scg game (unless some of the Sydney vs Melbourne Anzac Day games in the early/mid 2000s were, That would be a nightmare.)
 

Dirty Bird

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This is so dumb. In my eyes Sydney needs:
1) Sydney Football Stadium (Moore Park) - 75k rectangular with a roof. Ability to black out or block the top levels making it closer to 30k for non big events. Light rail will help but they should honestly look at a metro train loop from Central to Moore Park and back to Green Square for event days.
2) SCG - as is.
3) Paramatta Stadium - 35k as planned. That's the right idea.
4) Spotless - as is.

I don't see the justification for another big stadium in ANZ.
Agreed
And if you were to provide a 5th stadium, south for st George, Canterbury, Cronulla and a-league #3???
 

General Giant

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This is so dumb. In my eyes Sydney needs:
1) Sydney Football Stadium (Moore Park) - 75k rectangular with a roof. Ability to black out or block the top levels making it closer to 30k for non big events. Light rail will help but they should honestly look at a metro train loop from Central to Moore Park and back to Green Square for event days.
2) SCG - as is.
3) Paramatta Stadium - 35k as planned. That's the right idea.
4) Spotless - as is.

I don't see the justification for another big stadium in ANZ.
Sfs should be a 25k stadium.

Anz for the 65k to 70k.



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General Giant

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Seems ANZ refurb happening soon.

Last Sydney Derby happening this weekend.

Which absolutely means that Swans V Giants final was the last Aussie Rules game to be held there ever.

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General Giant

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Yep, construction has been scheduled for starting in "late 2019" regardless of what the plan ended up being. I've taken that to mean the end of the NRL season. Closed for up to two years.
I must of missed it somewhere but have they said where the NRL GF will be?

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Dirty Bird

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Stadium looks the same as it does now.

In America teams can leverage new or renovated stadiums that are better yet not quite neccessary by threatening to leave the town or playing on the fanbase.

ANZ Stadium's tenants have no ability to make the same threats or carry them out.

The sightlines do look bad on TV but I can't see a government paying for a big redo.
Cities are also more willing to redevelop their stadiums to lure a super bowl to town
Unfortunately the afl Is a little short sighted
Rip up the mcg contract and watch Wa and sa politicians throw money at Perth and adelaide stadiums to bring in a grand final.
 
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