Sydney Olympic Stadium to be demolished and rebuilt

desie

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Sfs should be a 25k stadium.

And for the 65k to 70k.



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The basic premise is to have a network at 30k, 45k and 75k so that events can go where they best fit. Having a gap in the market between 30k and 75k is problematic.

The issue with having anything more than 50k at Moore Park is that it won't fit on the envelope of SCG Trust land.
 

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dlanod

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The issue with having anything more than 50k at Moore Park is that it won't fit on the envelope of SCG Trust land.
That's not an issue! That's a feature - it means they manage to get a hold of some of that common property they've been eyeing off for years. :D
 

desie

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That's not an issue! That's a feature - it means they manage to get a hold of some of that common property they've been eyeing off for years. :D
Yes, and we all saw the reaction that illicited last time it was run up the flag pole....! The governance structure in that part of the world is very strange.

Would you believe there's actually a Driver Avenue Trust? Bizarre.
 

Rob

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The basic premise is to have a network at 30k, 45k and 75k so that events can go where they best fit. Having a gap in the market between 30k and 75k is problematic.
The thing is how many events in Sydney need a rectangular stadium with a capacity of between 30 and 75k?

I honestly can't think of any. Maybe 1 or 2 NRL games?

Forking out an extra few hundred million for the purpose of 1 or 2 events a year seems a bit......well let's call it uneconomic.
 

General Giant

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The thing is how many events in Sydney need a rectangular stadium with a capacity of between 30 and 75k?

I honestly can't think of any. Maybe 1 or 2 NRL games?

Forking out an extra few hundred million for the purpose of 1 or 2 events a year seems a bit......well let's call it uneconomic.
Got to agree.

ANZ as a permanent 75k rectangle and a new SFS for between 25k and 30 would suit the city much much more

It's only for the SCG/SFS members that it demands/wants 40k

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desie

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Got to agree.

ANZ as a permanent 75k rectangle and a new SFS for between 25k and 30 would suit the city much much more

It's only for the SCG/SFS members that it demands/wants 40k

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Once you take out provision for members in a 30k SFS there'd be barely 20k left for everyone else.

45k also works quite well for Rugby and Football internationals.
 
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General Giant

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Once you take out provision for members in a 30k SFS there'd be barely 20k left for everyone else.

45k also works quite for Rugby and Football internationals.
Just think a 25k/30k AAMI park like stadium would of been perfect for the Skyblues, Roosters and Waratahs.

The Gypsy Skyblues this year have shown A-league looks better in the smaller grounds.

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RussellEbertHandball

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The thing is how many events in Sydney need a rectangular stadium with a capacity of between 30 and 75k?

I honestly can't think of any. Maybe 1 or 2 NRL games?

Forking out an extra few hundred million for the purpose of 1 or 2 events a year seems a bit......well let's call it uneconomic.
There are enough potential events, but they have to force some teams to relocate games there with better stadium deals and better opportunities to brand the stadium during home games.

Plus its location. Build it and they will come if its built in the right location as we have seen with new stadiums all around Oz.

Updating a 45k rectangle stadium close to the CBD is more economic than massively changing an oval stadium 20kms from CBD into a rectangle. The Parliament Committee recommended hold off on developing ANZ until SFS rebuild is complete. It makes a lot of sense.

When the Waratahs are playing well, they get between 30k and 45k. The Wallabies only really need to play out at ANZ when they are flying. They could play their 3 to 4 tests in Sydney at Moore Park and only a 30k-45k crowd would rock up at the moment.

If the SFS gave South Sydney a decent stadium deal they would play games there rather than 20km from their true heartland. They only play out there because of the stadium deal ANZ stadium operators gave them when they were struggling and ANZ needed anchor tenants. The ANZAC game between Easts and St George get 40k. As do finals at the SFS between teams closer to SFS rather than ANZ ie Easts, Souths, Manly and St George.

Similar set up with St George. A 15km drive up the M5 from Kogarah to Moore Park is a lot better for their fans than driving to Olympic stadium. Ok not every Dragons supporter lives in Kogarah and a drive from Hurstville or Riverwood to ANZ would be shorter, but the train and other public transport runs directly closer to Moore Park than Olympic Stadium.

Sydney FC derbies against WSW and the new 3rd South West Sydney team should draw 30k+ each time Sydney FC have to get off their arse and start marketing these games heavily.

The Socceroos games against some of the smaller Asian teams in Qualifiers get between 30k and 40k. Its only the big games against Japan, South Korea and if we have to play another confederation team to qualify for the World Cup that need ANZ.

Having a world class stadium close to the CBD and decent public transport - if that tram line ever gets finished - linking in with the CBD and central station will help get more people to the ground and attract that 20-25 events needed in that 30k and 45k range.
 

R Chee Manning

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The thing is how many events in Sydney need a rectangular stadium with a capacity of between 30 and 75k?

I honestly can't think of any. Maybe 1 or 2 NRL games?

Forking out an extra few hundred million for the purpose of 1 or 2 events a year seems a bit......well let's call it uneconomic.
Let's not forget rugby and the odd Bledisloe and the ever popular soccer exhibition games against premier league clubs..
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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There are enough potential events, but they have to force some teams to relocate games there with better stadium deals and better opportunities to brand the stadium during home games.

Plus its location. Build it and they will come if its built in the right location as we have seen with new stadiums all around Oz.

Updating a 45k rectangle stadium close to the CBD is more economic than massively changing an oval stadium 20kms from CBD into a rectangle. The Parliament Committee recommended hold off on developing ANZ until SFS rebuild is complete. It makes a lot of sense.

When the Waratahs are playing well, they get between 30k and 45k. The Wallabies only really need to play out at ANZ when they are flying. They could play their 3 to 4 tests in Sydney at Moore Park and only a 30k-45k crowd would rock up at the moment.

If the SFS gave South Sydney a decent stadium deal they would play games there rather than 20km from their true heartland. They only play out there because of the stadium deal ANZ stadium operators gave them when they were struggling and ANZ needed anchor tenants. The ANZAC game between Easts and St George get 40k. As do finals at the SFS between teams closer to SFS rather than ANZ ie Easts, Souths, Manly and St George.

Similar set up with St George. A 15km drive up the M5 from Kogarah to Moore Park is a lot better for their fans than driving to Olympic stadium. Ok not every Dragons supporter lives in Kogarah and a drive from Hurstville or Riverwood to ANZ would be shorter, but the train and other public transport runs directly closer to Moore Park than Olympic Stadium.

Sydney FC derbies against WSW and the new 3rd South West Sydney team should draw 30k+ each time Sydney FC have to get off their arse and start marketing these games heavily.

The Socceroos games against some of the smaller Asian teams in Qualifiers get between 30k and 40k. Its only the big games against Japan, South Korea and if we have to play another confederation team to qualify for the World Cup that need ANZ.

Having a world class stadium close to the CBD and decent public transport - if that tram line ever gets finished - linking in with the CBD and central station will help get more people to the ground and attract that 20-25 events needed in that 30k and 45k range.
I think you misunderstand Sydney Geography a bit. The CBD is not the centre. The Olympic Park precinct is much more central. It also has great infrastructure as it was buiot for big events. Heavy rail links durect Eastand Westand even a train station uniquely designer for rapid movement of large crowds. A light rail link to Moore Park doesn't come close to matching it.
 

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RussellEbertHandball

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I think you misunderstand Sydney Geography a bit. The CBD is not the centre. The Olympic Park precinct is much more central. It also has great infrastructure as it was buiot for big events. Heavy rail links durect Eastand Westand even a train station uniquely designer for rapid movement of large crowds. A light rail link to Moore Park doesn't come close to matching it.
I understand Sydney. I lived in Concord for almost 6 years either side of the Olympics, watching Sydney Olympic Park get built on my doorstep. In 2003 an ABS statistician said the demographic centre of Sydney ran thru the Concord golf course ie if you took a map of the Sydney basin and drew a vertical line and horizontal line and that intersection went thru the golf course, then each of the 4 quadrants would have an equal amount of the greater Sydney's population in it.

From what I can work out, that intersection has moved a bit northward and westward since 2003, ie closer to Sydney Olympic Park.

The CBD and surrounding areas is where most people seem to have to travel to go to work. Friday late arvo/ early evening, before a sports event the CBD would be the most populated part of Sydney. Friday night is the best time slot to build events.

The existing CBD transport infrastructure handles that people movement better than Sydney Olympic Park does. People like to do things before and after sport events and that inner city area caters better for that. Before I left Sydney 8 years ago, I always heard the incessant whinging about travelling to Olympic Park to watch sport, yes from those from inner Sydney and north shore. The it's so far away, nothing to do there, takes so long to get there, type arguments.

Yes if Gladys ever gets these new train lines and faster trains built and opened up for use and more people live closer to Sydney Olympic Park, it will become more popular, but after 19 years, its been a very slow burn for it to become the preferred destination.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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I understand Sydney. I lived in Concord for almost 6 years either side of the Olympics, watching Sydney Olympic Park get built on my doorstep. In 2003 an ABS statistician said the demographic centre of Sydney ran thru the Concord golf course ie if you took a map of the Sydney basin and drew a vertical line and horizontal line and that intersection went thru the golf course, then each of the 4 quadrants would have an equal amount of the greater Sydney's population in it.

From what I can work out, that intersection has moved a bit northward and westward since 2003, ie closer to Sydney Olympic Park.

The CBD and surrounding areas is where most people seem to have to travel to go to work. Friday late arvo/ early evening, before a sports event the CBD would be the most populated part of Sydney. Friday night is the best time slot to build events.

The existing CBD transport infrastructure handles that people movement better than Sydney Olympic Park does. People like to do things before and after sport events and that inner city area caters better for that. Before I left Sydney 8 years ago, I always heard the incessant whinging about travelling to Olympic Park to watch sport, yes from those from inner Sydney and north shore. The it's so far away, nothing to do there, takes so long to get there, type arguments.

Yes if Gladys ever gets these new train lines and faster trains built and opened up for use and more people live closer to Sydney Olympic Park, it will become more popular, but after 19 years, its been a very slow burn for it to become the preferred destination.
I concede your point about the inner city and post game. I have to say that's it though. Moore Park isn't in the CBD. If it was adjacent to central station then maybe you'd have a point.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I concede your point about the inner city and post game. I have to say that's it though. Moore Park isn't in the CBD. If it was adjacent to central station then maybe you'd have a point.
I did say
"Updating a 45k rectangle stadium close to the CBD is more economic than massively changing an oval stadium 20kms from CBD into a rectangle ."

MCG isn't in or next to the CBD. Depending on your starting point, the MCG and SCG are similar distances from their CBD's.

The one close to the CBD is still the preferred venue in Sydney. To make the new SFS pay, it needs big games - almost events. Sydneysiders go watch events in big numbers not standard home and away games. Melbourians go watch home and away games in big numbers as well as the events.

If you want to have 20-25 big crowd events at the new SFS then scheduling them on Friday nights when the CBD is full and its only a 2 to 4km trip from the CBD, hopefully on a well functioning tram line soon, is your best bet.

Saturday arvo, Saturday night and Sunday arvo, the TV ratings and attendance figures over 30 years show they are behind Friday night. Sure the other 3 time slots the SFS isn't as close for all those people that work in the CBD, but its up to the ground managers to get creative and work with the clubs to make the stadium more attractive to the fans of the 3 rectangle codes.
 
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dlanod

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MCG isn't in or next to the CBD. Depending on your starting point, the MCG and SCG are similar distances from their CBD's.
MCG is a lot easier to get to than the SCG though... flat 1km walk from the closest point in the CBD, heavy and light rail both right there vs hilly 2km walk, light rail yet to come and a moderate walk away (not designed to serve the SCG). SCG put on buses but they always seem to result in massive lines to the point where walking is quicker.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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MCG is a lot easier to get to than the SCG though... flat 1km walk from the closest point in the CBD, heavy and light rail both right there vs hilly 2km walk, light rail yet to come and a moderate walk away (not designed to serve the SCG). SCG put on buses but they always seem to result in massive lines to the point where walking is quicker.
True and in small part, that's why the capacity is double. MCG transport infrastructure is vastly superior, but at least the NSW government has started to do something about it.

The Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust is basically a government body and given government $$$ have been used to develop the new SFS you would think they would actually work together, to maximise making it easy for people to get from the CBD and surrounding areas and getting off the train at central to get to Moore Park.

It might not be an easy thing to overcome, but its not impossible either.
 

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MCG is a lot easier to get to than the SCG though... flat 1km walk from the closest point in the CBD, heavy and light rail both right there vs hilly 2km walk, light rail yet to come and a moderate walk away (not designed to serve the SCG). SCG put on buses but they always seem to result in massive lines to the point where walking is quicker.
CBD as in suits, are they really the factor in Fri night crowds?
 

dlanod

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CBD as in suits, are they really the factor in Fri night crowds?
CBD is a handy rule of thumb because in both cases, Sydney and Melbourne (Brisbane too - haven't caught public transport in Adelaide or Perth), it's generally easy to get into the CBD via public transport and then the question is how easy is it to get to the stadium from there.
 

The_Wookie

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CBD is a handy rule of thumb because in both cases, Sydney and Melbourne (Brisbane too - haven't caught public transport in Adelaide or Perth), it's generally easy to get into the CBD via public transport and then the question is how easy is it to get to the stadium from there.
Adelaide is just straight in on the train/tram - and your less than 100m from the South Gate of Adelaide Oval
 

RussellEbertHandball

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CBD as in suits, are they really the factor in Fri night crowds?
Plenty of people don't wear suits and work in the CBD. Can always take a change of close.

Its the convince factor, get changed have a few drinks, a meal and then either walk, train, tram, cab, uber and get to the ground within 15- 20 minutes. For those who don't work in CBD the public transport system is geared to feeding people into the CBD.
 

acm21

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MCG is a lot easier to get to than the SCG though... flat 1km walk from the closest point in the CBD, heavy and light rail both right there vs hilly 2km walk, light rail yet to come and a moderate walk away (not designed to serve the SCG). SCG put on buses but they always seem to result in massive lines to the point where walking is quicker.
Agreed. The lines for busses happen every peak period from central to Moore park, The light rail will help heaps. The thing with both major stadiums in sydney (especially the Moore park stadiums) is the ability to get there. With ANZ the ability to get there takes a while, mainly because you often have to change at lidcombe (and maybe central or Strathfield if your are very lucky), while Moore park (as stated) is so hilly and out of the way. Having been to the mcg it is easier, and from my limited knowledge of Melbourne, it seems more concentrated with where the workers are based, which isn’t the case in sydney (But that may just be the ability to get the tram almost all the time)


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