Sydney Olympic Stadium to be demolished and rebuilt

[dlanod]

Well as appalling as that was, it was technically a hobbling of Labor's investment rather than a stand alone....but, yeah, I'm happy to talk to Turnbull's NBN and let it make its case

I'd like to engage in this conversation but as we're scheduled to get HFC, I'll be back in six to nine months.

 

[Pessimistic]

They managed to plan plenty of older cities around the world ok. Sydney is a mess

Legend has it they did plan a grid bu the new Australians ignored much of it. Created rights of way everywhere

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

So much for memories of Kathy Freeman's great win in the 400 metres, eh?

 

[dlanod]

So much for memories of Kathy Freeman's great win in the 400 metres, eh?

Have you been there in the last decade? There's no memories of that left, it's all been ripped up and half the stadium has been reconfigured already anyway.

 

[NoobPie]

So much for memories of Kathy Freeman's great win in the 400 metres, eh?

Or Cathy Freeman even

 

[Bokonon_]

Legend has it they did plan a grid bu the new Australians ignored much of it. Created rights of way everywhere

Interesting.
There are old rights of wayin Bondi. Theres one thatruns from Bondi Junction to to the beach. It follows footpaths some of the way but also ducks between houses and withstepsbetween streets along the way. Even opens out into a shadedareaunder a huge figtree nearthebeach. Ifyoudontknowitit's well worth the walk.
There something very similar between Queens Park and Bronte beach but the end but behind bronte park is well known.
I'd been told they were for locals to get to the beach in the 19th century but a Bondi Postie who'd walked the area for 40 years told me they're actually night cart trails because Sydney wasn't planned with sewerage initially.

Totally irrelevant I know

 

[Rob]

Pretty rare that Fitzsimons actually talks some sense, but I guess everyone's capable of it.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fit...ent-a-monument-to-excess-20171201-gzwthe.html

You think about what else could be done with that money - 200 $10 million community sporting projects as an example - and you just shake your head. $10 million gets you a shitload, imagine if you did that 200 times around the state?

 

[its been done]

Pretty rare that Fitzsimons actually talks some sense, but I guess everyone's capable of it.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fit...ent-a-monument-to-excess-20171201-gzwthe.html

You think about what else could be done with that money - 200 $10 million community sporting projects as an example - and you just shake your head. $10 million gets you a shitload, imagine if you did that 200 times around the state?

He doesn't know that the money to be spent on these new stadiums comes from the sale of Sydney's electricity grid, but the total price is a little over the top, unless if it's like Perth Stadium which is combined with transport access/upgrades

 

[The_Wookie]

He doesn't know that the money to be spent on these new stadiums comes from the sale of Sydney's electricity grid, but the total price is a little over the top, unless if it's like Perth Stadium which is combined with transport access/upgrades

Where the money comes from really isnt the point.

 

[Rob]

He doesn't know that the money to be spent on these new stadiums comes from the sale of Sydney's electricity grid, but the total price is a little over the top, unless if it's like Perth Stadium which is combined with transport access/upgrades

But unlike Perth Stadium it's not going to be filled on a regular basis.

 

[NMFCMUFC]

Refurbishing the Southern Stand of the MCG did a lot to keep it a modern stand and very few if any complain about it, despite its close to 14 year age difference to the Northern stand across the field, surely there was someway this could be done for ANZ? Even Allianz considering its only 3 years older than the Great Southern Stand of the MCG.

I always thought ANZ's biggest issue was transport links the station doesn't do enough to shift 80k people and doesn't do a lot for those in the West?

 

[NMFCMUFC]

Im all for government investment in professional sports/entertainment infrastructure, and the usual stadiums vs hospitals/schools type argument is not usually a convincing argument (otherwise you'd never build any stadium). In a economy the size of Australia, there is generally limited capital/return to allow the free market to undertake such projects entirely by itself, so again, a leg up from taxpayers serves a collective good in getting some of these things off the ground.

but for all that £2.5b (+overruns! oh god the overruns!).. to replace fully functional (if slightly imperfect) stadiums, with the same things in the same place with the same or less capacity? When one stadium cost £1b already and isn't even 20 years old! that aren't even getting filled 30% anyway ... Its financial and social insanity. What exact benefit is there? some nebulous thing about 'attracting events' seriously?

NSW have compromised their stadiums infrastructure via a dozen different bad decisions over 30 years: I mean its just incredible that the entire Olympic Stadium is going to be demolished. The entire nations taxpayers money went into that stadium to fund the Sydney's Olympic games. We were told it would provide legacy. 17 years is not legacy! It really utterly shameful. I do hope sanity prevails and the NSW public stand up and protest this.

Wembley has proven to be a massive white elephant in London too, and it was privately funded (abeit by the FA)

Not to mention the London Stadium for 2012 which WAS funded by the city of London and has been a cluster* for all concerned

 

[dlanod]

Refurbishing the Southern Stand of the MCG did a lot to keep it a modern stand and very few if any complain about it, despite its close to 14 year age difference to the Northern stand across the field, surely there was someway this could be done for ANZ? Even Allianz considering its only 3 years older than the Great Southern Stand of the MCG.

The original aim was the SCG Trust wanting a new stadium built on currently public land.

They ****ed that up, there was public outcry over granted yet more public land to the Trust, and the backlash lead to the second proposal - refurbish ANZ to improve sightlines and make it a fixed rectangular stadium, then spend a bit of money left over on the SFS (which needs it in terms of conveniences, but the overall stadium was better).

The SCG Trust got their lobbying together and we had plenty of articles about fire and safety issues and women's toilets, which made some minor items (they were rated "fix in the next 10 years" kind of priority) sound like the SFS was about to collapse. God knows what they were up to behind the scenes.

The net result was that the SCG Trust got its way and gets a brand new stadium. However you can't give them a brand new stadium without also giving the west a brand new stadium, so the refurbishing of ANZ now becomes a knock down and rebuild. There was literally no one calling for that.

So basically it boils down to the SCG Trust being able to pull the right strings, as always, and the government not wanting to be able to be painted as elitist and only focused on the eastern suburbs.

It's a joke, everyone up here knows it's a joke, but no one is going to get worked up enough about at least $500 million coming out of public pockets to make it an election issue despite the obvious cost-benefit of spending that on just about anything from the list of "things that aren't stadiums".

 

[NMFCMUFC]

The original aim was the SCG Trust wanting a new stadium built on currently public land.

They ****** that up, there was public outcry over granted yet more public land to the Trust, and the backlash lead to the second proposal - refurbish ANZ to improve sightlines and make it a fixed rectangular stadium, then spend a bit of money left over on the SFS (which needs it in terms of conveniences, but the overall stadium was better).

The SCG Trust got their lobbying together and we had plenty of articles about fire and safety issues and women's toilets, which made some minor items (they were rated "fix in the next 10 years" kind of priority) sound like the SFS was about to collapse. God knows what they were up to behind the scenes.

The net result was that the SCG Trust got its way and gets a brand new stadium. However you can't give them a brand new stadium without also giving the west a brand new stadium, so the refurbishing of ANZ now becomes a knock down and rebuild. There was literally no one calling for that.

So basically it boils down to the SCG Trust being able to pull the right strings, as always, and the government not wanting to be able to be painted as elitist and only focused on the eastern suburbs.

It's a joke, everyone up here knows it's a joke, but no one is going to get worked up enough about at least $500 million coming out of public pockets to make it an election issue despite the obvious cost-benefit of spending that on just about anything from the list of "things that aren't stadiums".

Christ that's a mess.

Allianz literally only needs a face lift and its fine. Now Labor is making it an election issue so Libs might be shooting themselves in the foot anyway.

What makes this all the more hilarious is that we don't know what impact the new Parramatta stadium will have, it may just make ANZ Stadium redundant for most events in time anyway and its location suits the "CBD West" concept more too.

The comparisons to Etihad are piss weak too, considering the AFL is trying to upgrade that as well.

 

[Roogal]

Where the money comes from really isnt the point.

That's true, but you can only sell off the electricity grid assets once and to piss that once-off money against the wall on building two shiney new stadiums which won't be shiney nor new in 20 years time and which the future NSW government will likely want to knock those down in turn too. The money from the NSW electricity asset sale should be spent on major permanent infrastructure (railways, road networks, or perhaps funding Badgery's Creek Airport etc.).

I know that I shouldn't compare the two states but at least in Victoria, the leasing of Melbourne's Ports is funding the city's railway upgrades and level crossing removal projects and is also being tipped in toward building a new westlink freeway that will double the city's capacity to feed road commuters into and out of its burgeoning Western suburbs.

 

[NMFCMUFC]

That's true, but you can only sell off the electricity grid assets once and to piss that once-off money against the wall on building two shiney new stadiums which won't be shiney nor new in 20 years time and which the future NSW government will likely want to knock those down in turn too. The money from the NSW electricity asset sale should be spent on major permanent infrastructure (railways, road networks, or perhaps funding Badgery's Creek Airport etc.).

I know that I shouldn't compare the two states but at least in Victoria, the leasing of Melbourne's Ports is funding the city's railway upgrades and level crossing removal projects and is also being tipped in toward building a new westlink freeway that will double the city's capacity to feed road commuters into and out of its burgeoning Western suburbs.

At least Sydney never sold its PT network, that's one thing they got going for them

 

[Roogal]

The comparisons to Etihad are piss weak too, considering the AFL is trying to upgrade that as well.

That's a fair call, because Etihad is used all year round and for multiple sporting events (not just the rectangular playing field ones). The Victorian Government are considering with caution on that proposed upgrade because they have already publically acknowledged that Etihad Stadium is totally privately owned, and any upgrade funding would be provided conditional on the facility also being availed unconditionally by the AFL for public and state sponsored major events.

The proposed upgrade of Etihad mainly involves improving the public amenity and access around the ground and does not involve bulldozing or altering the interior. The proposed upgrade of Etihad is forecast to cost about $300 million and would likely include updating of lighting to energy efficient LEDs throughout, improved public concourses and inclusion of more commercial outlets outside the stadium itelf.

The Victorian Government are soon announcing the results of a major 12-month review of all stadiums across the state with a 3000+ capacity. Most of these facilities are either State or Council owned venues BTW. Their review has focused primarily on timelines and gives priority for upgrading each venue to make them more accessible to female team sports (particularly in light of the recent major spike in female cricket and AFL). Geelong's GMHBA Stadium is likely to receive final funding of about $100 million to complete its transformation into a 40,000 seat venue. Ballarat's Mars Stadium is likely to recieve funding for its Stage 2 expansion and timelines given for Stage 3. But to be fair GMHBA Stadium and Mars Stadium are both Council-owned facilities built on Crown Land. The MCG is likely to get a facelift that would include perhaps new seating in the Southern Stand, improvements to the accessibility and surrounding concourses to finally tie it in to Melbourne Park. The old 'G' perhaps might even get new energy-efficient lighting. But it's all speculation and we'll wait and see in 2018 as the Victorian Government lead up to the State Election next November.

 

[Roogal]

At least Sydney never sold its PT network, that's one thing they got going for them

Give em time ... That'll come in 20 years time when they want to bulldoze and rebuild Allianz Stadium Mk2 and Homebush Stadium Mk2.

 

[dlanod]

That's true, but you can only sell off the electricity grid assets once and to piss that once-off money against the wall on building two shiney new stadiums which won't be shiney nor new in 20 years time and which the future NSW government will likely want to knock those down in turn too. The money from the NSW electricity asset sale should be spent on major permanent infrastructure (railways, road networks, or perhaps funding Badgery's Creek Airport etc.).

I know that I shouldn't compare the two states but at least in Victoria, the leasing of Melbourne's Ports is funding the city's railway upgrades and level crossing removal projects and is also being tipped in toward building a new westlink freeway that will double the city's capacity to feed road commuters into and out of its burgeoning Western suburbs.

Small mercies, but they've already spent a relatively huge amount of cash on public transport since coming to power:

• NW Metro
• Second harbour rail crossing
• Bankstown upgrade (eh)
• Eastern suburbs light rail
• Parramatta light rail
• Northern beaches bus line
• Various other upgrades and improvements

That's before considering the road projects (WestConnex, NorthConnex, Spit Bridge tunnel, F6 tunnel) going on as well.

Stadiums are pretty far down the list.

 

[dlanod]

At least Sydney never sold its PT network, that's one thing they got going for them

The new metro will be privatised... including the transfer of the Epping-Chatswood link.

 

[dlanod]

What makes this all the more hilarious is that we don't know what impact the new Parramatta stadium will have, it may just make ANZ Stadium redundant for most events in time anyway and its location suits the "CBD West" concept more too.

Parra's public transport links aren't great either though - at least ANZ has a heavy rail station (and will have a light rail station). Parra will have a light rail station but other than that it's 1.5 km or so from the train station.

I'm looking forward to that one opening though. That's the one stadium that definitely needed a knock down and replacement IMO.

 

[NMFCMUFC]

The new metro will be privatised... including the transfer of the Epping-Chatswood link.

Oh s**t, brace yourself, the private operators in Melbourne have been atrocious since day dot.

Parra's public transport links aren't great either though - at least ANZ has a heavy rail station (and will have a light rail station). Parra will have a light rail station but other than that it's 1.5 km or so from the train station.

I'm looking forward to that one opening though. That's the one stadium that definitely needed a knock down and replacement IMO.

Hmmm, do people in the West find it easier to get to Parra than ANZ though?

 

[NMFCMUFC]

That's a fair call, because Etihad is used all year round and for multiple sporting events (not just the rectangular playing field ones). The Victorian Government are considering with caution on that proposed upgrade because they have already publically acknowledged that Etihad Stadium is totally privately owned, and any upgrade funding would be provided conditional on the facility also being availed unconditionally by the AFL for public and state sponsored major events.

The proposed upgrade of Etihad mainly involves improving the public amenity and access around the ground and does not involve bulldozing or altering the interior. The proposed upgrade of Etihad is forecast to cost about $300 million and would likely include updating of lighting to energy efficient LEDs throughout, improved public concourses and inclusion of more commercial outlets outside the stadium itelf.

The Victorian Government are soon announcing the results of a major 12-month review of all stadiums across the state with a 3000+ capacity. Most of these facilities are either State or Council owned venues BTW. Their review has focused primarily on timelines and gives priority for upgrading each venue to make them more accessible to female team sports (particularly in light of the recent major spike in female cricket and AFL). Geelong's GMHBA Stadium is likely to receive final funding of about $100 million to complete its transformation into a 40,000 seat venue. Ballarat's Mars Stadium is likely to recieve funding for its Stage 2 expansion and timelines given for Stage 3. But to be fair GMHBA Stadium and Mars Stadium are both Council-owned facilities built on Crown Land. The MCG is likely to get a facelift that would include perhaps new seating in the Southern Stand, improvements to the accessibility and surrounding concourses to finally tie it in to Melbourne Park. The old 'G' perhaps might even get new energy-efficient lighting. But it's all speculation and we'll wait and see in 2018 as the Victorian Government lead up to the State Election next November.

Yep, Andrews government has enough on its plate with the roadworks proposed recently also and the skyrail.

Etihad should be an entirely private upgrade, esp since the AFL own it these days. Building up Ballarat would be relatively inexpensive in relation and provide more options for rua so should be fine to go ahead.

As much as Melbournians are ambivalent about Etihad, its more because of where it is more than anything else, we just have an aversion to the Docklands in general, otherwise its an upstanding stadium

 

[dlanod]

Hmmm, do people in the West find it easier to get to Parra than ANZ though?

The main complaint about ANZ is having to change lines, then change again at Lidcombe. Looking at the latest map I think they'd have to change anyway to get to Parramatta in most cases unless they're on the Richmond-Leppington line but the T3 line to Lidcombe gets an extra swap instead. So it ends up being a shuttle from Lidcombe vs a 1.5 km walk (not considering the much much better parking at Olympic Park).

 

[Roogal]

Small mercies, but they've already spent a relatively huge amount of cash on public transport since coming to power:

• NW Metro
• Second harbour rail crossing
• Bankstown upgrade (eh)
• Eastern suburbs light rail
• Parramatta light rail
• Northern beaches bus line
• Various other upgrades and improvements

That's before considering the road projects (WestConnex, NorthConnex, Spit Bridge tunnel, F6 tunnel) going on as well.

Stadiums are pretty far down the list.

Much of those are being privately and federally funded. There's very little State money going into the NSW road and rail projects, where as in Victoria it's the other way around. The State Government are virtually funding everything in partnership with private business. A big source of derision down here and likely to be a major cross in voters minds against the Federal Government next year. The State Election in Victoria will fall on the 24th November (about one month after the Federal Election. It will be interesting to see who Victorian voters punish.