Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

Academies, friend or foe


  • Total voters
    350

Remove this Banner Ad

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,360
The simplest solution is...you only get one pick in the first round...that should apply to every club always...unless a club gets a 2nd pick for being consistently sh*te for long enough from the AFL.
That would stop all the BS trading for points, splitting draft picks and most importantly guarantees that the top end talent is spread evenly across all the clubs....which was supposed to be the entire point of the draft.

That is basically what I'm saying, haha. If you wanted Campbell, use your Pick 4 to draft him. If you don't want him and you'd rather McDonald, you don't get two bites at the cherry. Simples
 
Sep 15, 2007
15,494
14,907
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Academies aren't an advantage, they're an equaliser. If they were an advantage Swans, Lions, Suns & Giants would be winning the comp every year but that doesn't happen.

Bullshit. What a s**t argument, having an advantage doesnt equal being perennially dominant.

Dont come at me with go home factor rubbish as some milquetoast way of equalising your advantage either, who have Sydney lost to the 'go home factor' lately?

A quick look at your list, where did Buddy, JPK, Taylor, Hickey come from?
 

NoobPie

Cancelled
Sep 21, 2016
7,356
5,255
AFL Club
Collingwood
Not sure why I'm bothering but here goes for the short version:

Of course investing in junior development in Sydney is a fantastic idea. The issue is any zone system is totally unfair and against the point of the draft.

So far the Swans have got:

Blakey - would've gone father son
Mills - grandpa was a state level footballer in WA
Gulden - grandpa and mum love the game, older brother and sister both play locally

Heeney has a strong league background and I do believe the reports that without the academy he would've been playing rugby league.

Otherwise it's not like there hasn't been great players come out of Sydney before - Lenny Hayes, Jack, the McVeigh's.

If it was branded the AFL Academy and all players weren't tied to the Swans OR if it was the Swans academy but top 40 picks were in the open draft would the talent coming through be any different?

So you've named less players from the previous 20 years in terms of top quality players from Sydney and surrounds than the Swans academy has produced in the last six years?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,852
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
So you're saying they're entitled to their players, before the draft even happens? If that's the case, then why have them inside the draft system at all? Just get the AFL to allow you to sign them as an SSP outside of the draft system.

You use your draft collateral to protect your investment. If you don't, you open it up to the rest of the market. Fairly simple

Designed to calm the usual suspects who do nothing but whinge about those growing the game.

Why dont the WA and SA teams get academies then?

Can you deny it isn't a wonderful advantage to the 4 northern clubs?

WA footy is zoned across the WAFL clubs with the AFL running rough shod across those zones.
WA has a well developed junior development program that has been producing footballers for a 100+ years. Vic is the same, are you suggesting the developing States have this benefit or even there is no advantage to clubs in AFL heartland.
 
The AFL (through state bodies, as and where appropriate.) should run development.
In NSW & QLD, I'd have them hire players from the local clubs to assist with this to make up for shortfalls in 3rd party payments such clubs get (how much would obviously depend).
If the clubs in those areas want to use them for advertising and developing their fan base, then I'd have no problem with that...The AFL can even assist.

But the draft remains as 'pure' as it can be.

-----------

Option b.

Each club gets, say, 1000 points every 5 years. These can be spent on academy kids, father son, or any other 'draft distortion' measure the AFL puts in.

Once you've spent that though, you're on your own.
 
Jul 13, 2015
36,180
40,291
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Remove the discount for father-son & academy picks. Maybe increase the points.

Academy's are working. People claiming the AFL should run an academy program in Sydney have no clue what they're talking about. Takes 2 seconds to check and see this isn't the AFLs first attempt at growing talent in the state, but this is the first successful job in doing so

They are heading this way.

I would think no matching 1st round picks and matching with no discounts beyond then.

Any kid going 1st round is playing football no matter what anyone claims.

Trent Croad came from NZ. Started Aussie Rules at age 10. At 17 was drafted Pick 3.

Without NGA or or leg up.
 

Arwib

Club Legend
Apr 9, 2011
2,444
2,121
Canberra
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Canberra Raiders
The less bastardisation of the ‘national draft’, the better.

All things like academies and such does is push it closer to catchment areas and zoning.

If it ends up going that way, then fine, but at the moment it’s kind half way between the 2 things, depending on the clubs involved.

Points auction or bust
 
Sep 15, 2007
15,494
14,907
AFL Club
Hawthorn
WA footy is zoned across the WAFL clubs with the AFL running rough shod across those zones.
WA has a well developed junior development program that has been producing footballers for a 100+ years. Vic is the same, are you suggesting the developing States have this benefit or even there is no advantage to clubs in AFL heartland.

Im suggesting that all young players are available to all clubs. Pretty simple.
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,360
Im suggesting that all young players are available to all clubs. Pretty simple.

I wouldn't say all, as a lot of talent can go at later/rookie picks due to only being recognized locally and being a secret only really known to whatever club has put time into them - Miers and Stewart are two that come to mind for me.

I think just restricting any form of academy matching to exclude the first round - in line with next gen and father-son - is probably the most equitable way to go about it
 
Oct 2, 2016
10,819
22,360
AFL Club
Sydney
Bullshit. What a sh*t argument, having an advantage doesnt equal being perennially dominant.

Dont come at me with go home factor rubbish as some milquetoast way of equalising your advantage either, who have Sydney lost to the 'go home factor' lately?

A quick look at your list, where did Buddy, JPK, Taylor, Hickey come from?
Geelong has an advantage. They constantly use the go home factor in recruiting good Geelong players which is a big part of their continued finals presence.

MCG GF is an advantage, which is why VIC clubs continue to win the big game.

Since the academies have been put in place, Swans have gone down. Suns can't make the finals. Giants got to the GF once with all the other concessions while Lions finally made it to the top 4 after a decade of no finals. If it is an advantage there should be some measurable way to show it in the teams performance?
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,852
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
They are heading this way.

I would think no matching 1st round picks and matching with no discounts beyond then.

Any kid going 1st round is playing football no matter what anyone claims.

Trent Croad came from NZ. Started Aussie Rules at age 10. At 17 was drafted Pick 3.

Without NGA or or leg up.

Did Croad come through Vic junior footy, NicNat thru WA junior footy so did Don Pyke .... come on.

The developing States dont have this advantage.
 

Shadow89

Cancelled
10k Posts AFL Fantasy Div 6+ Winner 2021
Feb 20, 2018
17,150
41,360
Geelong has an advantage. They constantly use the go home factor in recruiting good Geelong players which is a big part of their continued finals presence.

MCG GF is an advantage, which is why VIC clubs continue to win the big game.

Since the academies have been put in place, Swans have gone down. Sins can't make the finals. Giants got to the GF once with all the other concessions while Lions finally made it to the top 4 after a decade of no finals. If it is an advantage their should be some measurable why to show it in the teams performance?

So you think there's no reason for your academy players to enter the draft then?

Myself, a few others, and the OP (a Sydney poster who created the thread) have this solution - which I take it you don't agree on?

"The simplest solution is...you only get one pick in the first round...that should apply to every club always...unless a club gets a 2nd pick for being consistently sh*te for long enough from the AFL.
That would stop all the BS trading for points, splitting draft picks and most importantly guarantees that the top end talent is spread evenly across all the clubs....which was supposed to be the entire point of the draft."

*************
"Agreed. If you wanted Campbell, use your Pick 4 to draft him. If you don't want him and you'd rather McDonald, you don't get two bites at the cherry. Simples"

*********************


Also, just as an aside, it's a common misconception that it's players coming to us that has kept us up for so long. Funnily enough, it's actually our drafting of amazing Best 22 players with ridiculous s**t draft hands, that has kept us competitive as long as we have been.

Mark Blicavs
Tom Stewart
Mark O'Connor
Jake Kolodjashnij
Mitch Duncan
Cam Guthrie
Sam Menegola
Gryan Miers
Sam Simpson
Jack Henry
Brandan Parfitt
Jed Bews
Tom Atkins (was emergency)

Not one of those who played in the GF are 1st round picks, yet all are Best 22
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,852
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
I wouldn't say all, as a lot of talent can go at later/rookie picks due to only being recognized locally and being a secret only really known to whatever club has put time into them - Miers and Stewart are two that come to mind for me.

I think just restricting any form of academy matching to exclude the first round - in line with next gen and father-son - is probably the most equitable way to go about it

Miers & Stewart are great examples of the failure of highly paid recruiters across all clubs.

'they hid them' ... you didnt look.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,852
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Im suggesting that all young players are available to all clubs. Pretty simple.

& i'm saying heartland clubs already have the advantage of junior development programs that churn out the kids for the AFL clubs. Not so easy in NRL territory. The Swans are doing a great job & our game thrives on local heroes, wait until they dominate as Lions did, the Hawks have done, Geelong has done, the Tiges are doing.
Remember the Suns were going to win 5 in a row, GWS were going to .....

Developing our talent pool is a must.
 
Aug 13, 2006
14,775
13,864
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
So you've named less players from the previous 20 years in terms of top quality players from Sydney and surrounds than the Swans academy has produced in the last six years?
Mills and Heeney have a long way to go to get close to even lacing up Lenny Hayes and Jarrad McVeigh's boots. But yes, they've produced quality. Sydney have also won 2 flags which changed the perception of them in Sydney, and GWS came in to provide 2 games a week and more visibility in the press too. I imagine Auskick numbers have soared as well.

I never said the Swans academy wasn't successful. They're pumping in a lot of money in a well organised manner. The question is not - should the AFL invest more in a hugely populated area - the question is whether it needs to benefit the Swans for it to work.
 
Aug 13, 2006
14,775
13,864
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Academies aren't an advantage, they're an equaliser. If they were an advantage Swans, Lions, Suns & Giants would be winning the comp every year but that doesn't happen.
When the Swans and Lions last had an advantage that's exactly what happened. Late round picks help equalise the go home factor. But big name mature players will always love the idea of being young, rich and mostly anonymous in Sydney and possibly Brisbane. Hence Lockett, Hall, Franklin and very close to Daniher.
 
Back