Sydney Swans Academy

Academies, friend or foe


  • Total voters
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Page8383

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 6, 2007
6,004
3,837
Sydney
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Neither was Florent.
But it’s not the point.
Having first refusal on a large demographic of players is an advantage. You can get all defensive about it but it’s undeniable.
The fact that club sponsors have invested in it is a side issue. It’s an issue of opportunity not money. Club posted a $6 mill loss last year but put money into academies. That’s fine - anyone would do that if they could. But not everyone can because they don’t have the opportunity.
And the father / son thing is irrelevant as it’s the same rules for all clubs and how they are bid for.
Don’t understand the defensiveness on the issue. Just go “yeah, we’re lucky and making the most of it”


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

FreoFan85

Debutant
Jun 29, 2020
88
88
AFL Club
Fremantle
And what good do the academies do? Equalsation for every other benefit VIC clubs have over us. It's fair, and the fact that it exists proves it.

And with the whole narrative thing. That means the AFL is rolling the dice where a team can end up massive winners with f/s and others don't get a sniff for what? A narrative? Is that it? That's a bit of a wild spanner in the works if you ask me and asking for trouble. Atleast you know what you're getting with the academies, and the reason why it has been implemented is clear and logical.
What about the SA and WA teams? Do we just need to invent our own advantages?

Just because something exists and is implemented doesn’t mean it’s fair. Look at the grand final being at the G for the next 50 years as an example, or the fact that Geelong can’t play their finals at the cattery when playing a Melbourne team. Or that Nic Nat gets paid ambassador fees.

Narratives are why the majority of supporters watch football.It is the only form of entertainment where we don’t know how the story ends.

Very few clubs have benefitted several times in a short space of time with this initiative (unlike an academy). The randomness or the fact that a roll of the dice means that it is much more fair. Just like the randomness of players doing acls mid game, or getting draft bargains/duds or players having their careers ended through serious injuries.

The fact that one is so calculated and can only end in advantage for a handful of clubs is exactly why it needs to be addressed.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
58,378
63,197
AFL Club
West Coast
So we don’t get the kids we want and put the resources into...why would we plonk millions of dollars into a programme to get a second rounder talent at best
Don't do it then. No one is forcing you to. WC and Freo pay royalties to the WAFC who administer footy in WA. I don't see you complaining about having Warner, McDonald and Franklin on your list.

I keep hearing how big an advantage it is to have 50-100 Victorian players playing in NSW/Qld each year for 10 clubs to poach. Is having more and more NSW/Qld players playing in Vic/SA/WA not also an advantage? Every time a player in Victoria requests a trade to WA, SA, Qld or NSW and nominates one club (out of the 2 available per state) people lose their sh*t.
 

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Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
58,378
63,197
AFL Club
West Coast
Please enlighten me. You're yet to answer any of my questions. Please for the love of God tell me how f/s is a fair and equal system. Answer it logically and you win
F/S is not a fair and equitable system, but it's not designed to be. With or without bidding there is no way of knowing who it will benefit.

West Coast had arguably the team of the 90s. We have 18 x 100 gamers over the age of 50 for a net return to date of Jacob Brennan, and Jake and Alec Waterman. Michael Tuck played 426 games, Travis played 38. Francis Bourke was a superstar, David a whipping boy. Russell Ebert is an immortal of SA football, Brett was a solid player but best remembered for his massive bonce. Who looked at Brian Brown and Andrew McGovern (the latter not eligible) and said their sons would be star key position players? Even Gary Ablett Sr who had a superstar son also had Nathan. Collingwood had to take the two dud Clokes to get Travis.

Would you rather have access to the sons or former WC players, or any junior athlete in WA?
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
22,995
12,052
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
To sum up

Advantages for Victorian teams:
Less travel
Guaranteed home grand final regardless of ladder
Can allow players to develop in non-traditional states and snap them up later when they miss mum
Have a larger pool of local talent in any given draft
Can offer more media based incentives for players to offset costs

Advantage for Sydney:
Pays for an academy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your Almost got it Right......

Advantages for Victorian team:
-Less Travel
-Home grand final (vs non victorian side)
-Has not one but 2 leagues for local talent: the VFL and the TAC or the NAB cup which is the country league...
-can get elite vic players like Judd or Dangerfield at the right price, even possibly as free agents.
-More available jobs post playing Career such as an assistant coach or development coach or work in the media.

Disadvantages of a Victorian side:
-Only Home Advantages against only 8 non vic clubs.
-In theory Harder to make finals as a midtable vic side due to sharing home ground with 9 other vic clubs.
-Hard to get the elite talent in the draft as each side is against 9 other Vic clubs.
-Harder to win a grand final in a way If the Victorian side faces another victorian side. 9 in a 17 chance so in Scott Steiner mathematics, a more than 50% chance of that happening.


Advantages of a SA or WA based side
-Home ground advantage vs 16 other clubs
-12 home state games and 10 away games
-In theory as a half decent non-vic side, more easier to make finals. get those 12 wins buy winning 9 or 10 games out of 12 and win 2 or 3 away game against bottom 6 clubs.
-Only have one other side fighting for local talent in the WAFL or SANFL.
-Easier to make top 4 or even a grand final. Look at West coast in 2015 or 2018. Won 15 games. 10 home games and 5 away games and Beat 2 Victorian sides at home to make a Grand final.

Disadvantages of a South Aussie or west aussie side
-Interstate travel especially in Melbourne. Hell lack of games at the MCG. All non vic sides get one game at the MCG each season. Freo didnt get one in the regular season in 2010.
-Harder to win a Grand final vs a Victorian side. As there are 10 Victorian sides and only 7 other non-Vic sides.
-Short odds for Non-Vic side to face another non-vic side in a grand final unless both Vic sides have very good seasons and finish top 2 or all top 4 spots are taken by non-vic sides.

Advantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Home ground Advantage vs 17 other clubs
-Like the SA and WA teams, 12 home state games and 10 away games
-A semi decent NSW and Queensland side can make finals winning 9 or 10 home games and 2 or 3 away games vs bottom 6 away teams.
-Mainly for the Queenlanders. QAFL can produce local talent.

Disadvantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Interstate travel. Not as dire as the WA clubs. If Canberra gets an AFL team for example, Canberra is only 250kms away from sydney and 650 kms away from Melbourne.
-Hard enough to win a flag Like the SA and WA clubs as theres a 10 in 17 chance that Queensland or NSW side has to beat a formidable Victorian side in a GF. Unless they are fortunate enough to get another Non-Vic side Like the swans did in 2005-6.
-SA and WA teams do have a strong local league in the SANFL and WAFL to get local talent. NSW and Queenslands sides are not that fortunate. QAFL does produce some draftees from Queensland. Hence there is a reliance on Academy products....

WillHayward and General Giant and Giant Pete I think i covered most of it. Might be missing 1 or 2 things.
 
Jul 30, 2006
1,743
1,311
Cessnock
AFL Club
Geelong
You do realise gulden was pick 32, there were plenty of chances for other clubs to draft him. There's a very small catch of great players come through the academy system for the swans, no Brownlow medalist and we have Vic clubs jumping up and down, even though the number 1 draft pick was an "academy" player from Warrnambool that went to an aps school, how that qualifies as an academy pick is astounding.

Just remember the swans missed out on the dunkleys as father son's because of where they were located geographically and we currently have a system, where many first round picks from Victoria, leave interstate clubs after 2 years and come back for bigger all.

For the game to prosper, the AFL has to move away from being Vic centric, how the gf is kept at the MCG is the worst decision I've seen.

I'm all for the new and Qld teams having academies to grow the game and Tassie when they get in. Keep the father son's as well its unique to our game

Swans fans are making a lot of straw man arguments.

Most posters are NOT saying to get rid of the academy.

Most posters are saying that what the Swans gave up to get top end talent was very little.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
18,217
21,410
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
Nobody will ever respect the Sydney Swans while they continue to play by different rules to everyone else and receive leg-ups from the AFL
We learned long ago that we aren't in the comp to be respected. The AFL give us your so called "leg up" to keep 6 nonviable Vic clubs from going under by helping provide $$$$$$$$$ for the TV rights that inevitably is the only reason the AFL exists.

Playing 6 or so games in Tassie for their government's charity sponsorship dollar & pokie money won't be sustainable for your club going forward.
You need us!
Have you forgotten this?
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Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
18,217
21,410
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
Umpire 32 killed it for Sydney yesterday. They've found one.
4th rising star nomination?
Your players (& supporters) need to learn the rules.
Basic ones too such as taking the ball from the ruck which was changed at the end of the 2018 season.


"A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.
Ruckmen are now free to grab the ball out of any ruck contest with the benefit of the same prior opportunity as every other game situation across the ground."
 

JayJ20

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 28, 2016
14,302
20,115
AFL Club
Essendon
Your players (& supporters) need to learn the rules.
Basic ones too such as taking the ball from the ruck which was changed at the end of the 2018 season.


"A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.
Ruckmen are now free to grab the ball out of any ruck contest with the benefit of the same prior opportunity as every other game situation across the ground."
He took how many steps? He can grab it out of the ruck, but Hickey played on.
And like I'm only talking about 1 free kick. Ump 32 paid 16 free kicks to Sydney and paid 1 free kick to us.

We laid 38 tackles in the last quarter alone with many perfectly executed tackles that should have been holding the ball missed. Also paying the insufficient intent to keep it in one way and not the other. Maybe you should take off the Sydney blinkers.
 

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