Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Farm Boy]

Academies aren’t fair. But the game is unplayable and other codes will definitely- and rightfully - threaten AFL longevity. So academies in that respect are necessary.


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[Freomaniac]

To sum up

Advantages for Victorian teams:
Less travel
Guaranteed home grand final regardless of ladder
Can allow players to develop in non-traditional states and snap them up later when they miss mum
Have a larger pool of local talent in any given draft
Can offer more media based incentives for players to offset costs

Advantage for Sydney:
Pays for an academy


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Your Almost got it Right......

Advantages for Victorian team:
-Less Travel
-Home grand final (vs non victorian side)
-Has not one but 2 leagues for local talent: the VFL and the TAC or the NAB cup which is the country league...
-can get elite vic players like Judd or Dangerfield at the right price, even possibly as free agents.
-More available jobs post playing Career such as an assistant coach or development coach or work in the media.

Disadvantages of a Victorian side:
-Only Home Advantages against only 8 non vic clubs.
-In theory Harder to make finals as a midtable vic side due to sharing home ground with 9 other vic clubs.
-Hard to get the elite talent in the draft as each side is against 9 other Vic clubs.
-Harder to win a grand final in a way If the Victorian side faces another victorian side. 9 in a 17 chance so in Scott Steiner mathematics, a more than 50% chance of that happening.


Advantages of a SA or WA based side
-Home ground advantage vs 16 other clubs
-12 home state games and 10 away games
-In theory as a half decent non-vic side, more easier to make finals. get those 12 wins buy winning 9 or 10 games out of 12 and win 2 or 3 away game against bottom 6 clubs.
-Only have one other side fighting for local talent in the WAFL or SANFL.
-Easier to make top 4 or even a grand final. Look at West coast in 2015 or 2018. Won 15 games. 10 home games and 5 away games and Beat 2 Victorian sides at home to make a Grand final.

Disadvantages of a South Aussie or west aussie side
-Interstate travel especially in Melbourne. Hell lack of games at the MCG. All non vic sides get one game at the MCG each season. Freo didnt get one in the regular season in 2010.
-Harder to win a Grand final vs a Victorian side. As there are 10 Victorian sides and only 7 other non-Vic sides.
-Short odds for Non-Vic side to face another non-vic side in a grand final unless both Vic sides have very good seasons and finish top 2 or all top 4 spots are taken by non-vic sides.

Advantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Home ground Advantage vs 17 other clubs
-Like the SA and WA teams, 12 home state games and 10 away games
-A semi decent NSW and Queensland side can make finals winning 9 or 10 home games and 2 or 3 away games vs bottom 6 away teams.
-Mainly for the Queenlanders. QAFL can produce local talent.

Disadvantages of a NSW or Queensland side
-Interstate travel. Not as dire as the WA clubs. If Canberra gets an AFL team for example, Canberra is only 250kms away from sydney and 650 kms away from Melbourne.
-Hard enough to win a flag Like the SA and WA clubs as theres a 10 in 17 chance that Queensland or NSW side has to beat a formidable Victorian side in a GF. Unless they are fortunate enough to get another Non-Vic side Like the swans did in 2005-6.
-SA and WA teams do have a strong local league in the SANFL and WAFL to get local talent. NSW and Queenslands sides are not that fortunate. QAFL does produce some draftees from Queensland. Hence there is a reliance on Academy products....

WillHayward and General Giant and Giant Pete I think i covered most of it. Might be missing 1 or 2 things.

 

[eastfreo75]

Swans fans are making a lot of straw man arguments.

Most posters are NOT saying to get rid of the academy.

Most posters are saying that what the Swans gave up to get top end talent was very little.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

You do realise gulden was pick 32, there were plenty of chances for other clubs to draft him. There's a very small catch of great players come through the academy system for the swans, no Brownlow medalist and we have Vic clubs jumping up and down, even though the number 1 draft pick was an "academy" player from Warrnambool that went to an aps school, how that qualifies as an academy pick is astounding.

Just remember the swans missed out on the dunkleys as father son's because of where they were located geographically and we currently have a system, where many first round picks from Victoria, leave interstate clubs after 2 years and come back for bigger all.

For the game to prosper, the AFL has to move away from being Vic centric, how the gf is kept at the MCG is the worst decision I've seen.

I'm all for the new and Qld teams having academies to grow the game and Tassie when they get in. Keep the father son's as well its unique to our game

Swans fans are making a lot of straw man arguments.

Most posters are NOT saying to get rid of the academy.

Most posters are saying that what the Swans gave up to get top end talent was very little.

 

[Tedeski]

Nobody will ever respect the Sydney Swans while they continue to play by different rules to everyone else and receive leg-ups from the AFL

We learned long ago that we aren't in the comp to be respected. The AFL give us your so called "leg up" to keep 6 nonviable Vic clubs from going under by helping provide $$$$$$$$$ for the TV rights that inevitably is the only reason the AFL exists.

Playing 6 or so games in Tassie for their government's charity sponsorship dollar & pokie money won't be sustainable for your club going forward.
You need us!
Have you forgotten this?

 

[JayJ20]

Umpire 32 killed it for Sydney yesterday. They've found one.
4th rising star nomination?

 

[Tedeski]

Umpire 32 killed it for Sydney yesterday. They've found one.
4th rising star nomination?

Your players (& supporters) need to learn the rules.
Basic ones too such as taking the ball from the ruck which was changed at the end of the 2018 season.

Ruck and role: Will new rule change tactics?

Clubs are planning to experiment with two ruckmen in same side

www.afl.com.au

"A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.
Ruckmen are now free to grab the ball out of any ruck contest with the benefit of the same prior opportunity as every other game situation across the ground."

 

[JayJ20]

Your players (& supporters) need to learn the rules.
Basic ones too such as taking the ball from the ruck which was changed at the end of the 2018 season.

Ruck and role: Will new rule change tactics?

Clubs are planning to experiment with two ruckmen in same side

www.afl.com.au

"A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity.
Ruckmen are now free to grab the ball out of any ruck contest with the benefit of the same prior opportunity as every other game situation across the ground."

He took how many steps? He can grab it out of the ruck, but Hickey played on.
And like I'm only talking about 1 free kick. Ump 32 paid 16 free kicks to Sydney and paid 1 free kick to us.

We laid 38 tackles in the last quarter alone with many perfectly executed tackles that should have been holding the ball missed. Also paying the insufficient intent to keep it in one way and not the other. Maybe you should take off the Sydney blinkers.

 

[Mofra]

Talented players are escaping the clutches of RL and soccer and are playing AFL.
Isn't that the bottom line? Competition with other codes? Gulden's parents said he'd be playing soccer like his brothers if it wasn't for the academy.

 

[Tedeski]

Ump 32 paid 16 free kicks to Sydney and paid 1 free kick to us.

He must be part of our Academy!
He was brought up in rugby territory so was pleased to be given the opportunity to umpire in the AFL.
We picked him up for free. You should have taken him before our pick.

The important fact is that we are 4 & 0 & Essendon is 1 & 3.
Had you brought your own umpire as you have done on multiple occasions when playing in Melbourne against us over the years,
you MAY BE 2 & 2 to our 3 & 1.

What a difference the Academy system makes!

 

[Tedeski]

Talented players are escaping the clutches of RL and soccer and are playing AFL.
Isn't that the bottom line? Competition with other codes? Gulden's parents said he'd be playing soccer like his brothers if it wasn't for the academy.

Most importantly over the next ten years we will see these guys infiltrate the whole AFL in every state, (I hope) which can only be good.

 

[JayJ20]

He must be part of our Academy!
He was brought up in rugby territory so was pleased to be given the opportunity to umpire in the AFL.
We picked him up for free. You should have taken him before our pick.

The important fact is that we are 4 & 0 & Essendon is 1 & 3.
Had you brought your own umpire as you have done on multiple occasions when playing in Melbourne against us over the years,
you MAY BE 2 & 2 to our 3 & 1.

What a difference the Academy system makes!

Well maybe if we didn't have to play Sydney in Sydney every year, then we can bring our own umpires.
2018, 2012 and 1998 are literally the only years since 1995 that we didn't have to travel to play you in Sydney, which in itself is BS.

That's alright though. You're the AFL's darlings so you'll continue to be propped up and given a leg up at every opportunity. Grow the game in Sydney and all.

 

[BloodRet]

Neither was Florent.
But it’s not the point.
Having first refusal on a large demographic of players is an advantage. You can get all defensive about it but it’s undeniable.
The fact that club sponsors have invested in it is a side issue. It’s an issue of opportunity not money. Club posted a $6 mill loss last year but put money into academies. That’s fine - anyone would do that if they could. But not everyone can because they don’t have the opportunity.
And the father / son thing is irrelevant as it’s the same rules for all clubs and how they are bid for.
Don’t understand the defensiveness on the issue. Just go “yeah, we’re lucky and making the most of it”


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Yeah you're *ed though because you support a Melbourne based club and are shouting lifes unfair. So ironic. The AFL will always favour you.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Well maybe if we didn't have to play Sydney in Sydney every year, then we can bring our own umpires.
2018, 2012 and 1998 are literally the only years since 1995 that we didn't have to travel to play you in Sydney, which in itself is BS.

That's alright though. You're the AFL's darlings so you'll continue to be propped up and given a leg up at every opportunity. Grow the game in Sydney and all.

Maybe that wouldn’t be the case if the AFL didn’t set your club up financially with your bullshit “blockbusters” and Anzac Day and Dreamtime farces.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

He took how many steps? He can grab it out of the ruck, but Hickey played on.
And like I'm only talking about 1 free kick. Ump 32 paid 16 free kicks to Sydney and paid 1 free kick to us.

We laid 38 tackles in the last quarter alone with many perfectly executed tackles that should have been holding the ball missed. Also paying the insufficient intent to keep it in one way and not the other. Maybe you should take off the Sydney blinkers.

The Hickey one cancels out the Gulden one bloke got clotheslined 15m from goal, you're undermining your last quarter performance on the basis of a bad call by the umpire.

Like ive said the HTB is the biggest blight on the game it cost Brisbane 4pts not sure it cost you the game with 20secs to go as you were on the wrong end of the ground.

 

[Tedeski]

Well maybe if we didn't have to play Sydney in Sydney every year, then we can bring our own umpires.
2018, 2012 and 1998 are literally the only years since 1995 that we didn't have to travel to play you in Sydney, which in itself is BS.

That's alright though. You're the AFL's darlings so you'll continue to be propped up and given a leg up at every opportunity. Grow the game in Sydney and all.

BRING BACK SHEEDY!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That's alright though. You're the AFL's darlings so you'll continue to be propped up and given a leg up at every opportunity. Grow the game in Sydney and all.

Two year trade ban for doing, um, what exactly did we do wrong? .... calls BS on that assertion.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Two year trade ban for doing, um, what exactly did we do wrong? .... calls BS on that assertion.

So you did nothing wrong and let the AFL ban you?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

So you did nothing wrong and let the AFL ban you?

You mean we could have told the AFL to not ban us?

Had no idea it worked like that. We Sydney AFL types are so naive about how the game really works.

 

[JZ_Skitzo]

So you did nothing wrong and let the AFL ban you?

Lol. They tried to fight it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You mean we could have told the AFL to not ban us?

Had no idea it worked like that. We Sydney AFL types are so naive about how the game really works.

Yeah there are these things called courts.

But no, it's better just to sook about it.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yeah there are these things called courts.

But no, it's better just to sook about it.

I have no doubt the Swans wouldn't have hesitated to use the full legal arsenal at their disposal.

After all, isn't that everyone's complaint, that back in '05 we used a QC to read the AFL's rules back to them to show that Barry Hall had no case to answer for and was free to play in the granny?

Nah, the trade ban was pure and simple the AFL sending a very clear message to the Swans to get back in our box.

Of course we have been on the receiving end of concessions to help grow the game in NSW (the most notorious of which was signed off on by all other AFL club presidents), but the relationship is far more complicated than the simplistic Golden Child crap you read about us on BF. Power in any high-stakes relationship is exercised on multiple levels, in both directions.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I have no doubt the Swans wouldn't have hesitated to use the full legal arsenal at their disposal.

After all, isn't that everyone's complaint, that back in '05 we used a QC to read the AFL's rules back to them to show that Barry Hall had no case to answer for and was free to play in the granny?

Nah, the trade ban was pure and simple the AFL sending a very clear message to the Swans to get back in our box.

Of course we have been on the receiving end of concessions to help grow the game in NSW (the most notorious of which was signed off on by all other AFL club presidents), but the relationship is far more complicated than the simplistic Golden Child crap you read about us on BF. Power in any high-stakes relationship is exercised on multiple levels, in both directions.

Or maybe you did do something wrong and just took your medicine?

I'll go with that, i know Swans supporters don't like that, but then most supporters of all clubs like to make up excuses.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Or maybe you did do something wrong and just took your medicine?

I'll go with that, i know Swans supporters don't like that, but then most supporters of all clubs like to make up excuses.

And that "something wrong" was........?

I'm more than happy for you to enlighten us as to what we did wrong. That's been my point all along.

If it wasn't a naked exercise of power by the AFL, there was clearly something else going on behind the scenes that the public has never been filled in on. The whole thing was very suss.

 

[citizen-erased]

Maybe that wouldn’t be the case if the AFL didn’t set your club up financially with your bullshit “blockbusters” and Anzac Day and Dreamtime farces.

wtf
those games brought the crowds long before they were "blockbusters"

85k members pre-Covid and however many supporters on top of that.
AFL does not set us up financially.