Preview Sydney Swans vs Fremantle Dockers, Sunday 12:30pm @ Metricon

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Wolftone

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Just saying it's been a fair while and he hasn't gone close to replicating that form since. I just think it's a bit ambitious to say his current ceiling is 7 goals. That's like saying Buddy's going to give us a 13 goal game any week now.

Obviously Buddy is old so it's not a direct comparison as you say, just don't think a player can live off a handful of good performances from several years ago.
He had one ordinary season and one injury prone one. But in that injury prone one he was looking good. His pressure acts were match winning. He was heading in the right direction and his delivery to other forwards was good. Then injury, just when he was starting to regain some of that form.

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Wolftone

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Yes because I think he'll be delisted at the end of this season. There's 6 games max left for him to play in I would think, I don't think he's kicking 7 goals.
OK. I think you are wrong. Benny is a quality player who brings huge pressure because not only is he super quick he is super strong in the tackle. He will play this week. I hope he proves you wrong mate because every time he goes out on the park he puts in 100%. We have had much more talented players who never did that and didn't live up to their potential over the years.

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Dubai Quacker

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we have different opinions on what's important
possessions mean fck-all if you're in the team for reasons other than accruing possessions ... the obsession with stat numbers can be annoying when sometimes you just need to see what you see ...
we do not need every player running up 20-30 touches a week ... we have a solid group of players up and down the field who'll get anything from 10 to 25 a week and do important things with them ... mcinerney, dawson, hewett, heeney, gulden, blakey, florent, hayward, papley, wicks ... not sure any would've hit 30 in a game this year (maybe hewett), most would barely have hit 20 but i'll take them in my side ...

the dogs' macrae gets 30-40 (or more) a game and is considered a star, fair enough ... he was kept to 25 against us and was all but irrelevant ... four other dogs players got more than 25 but only four swans did (dawson, mills, lloyd and parker ... and we know where most of lloyd's 33 were), yet sydney controlled that game and won convincingly

a lot of ordinary teams have players who rack up big stats

bell does a fair bit of stuff that doesn't register on stats sheets but allows those more creative players to get the ball and use it well ... it was his pressure in a pocket last week that ended up in a wicks goal ... not for the first time in the past month
he's a relentless runner and harasser, doesn't back off a contest ...
i'd rather him and rowbottom (who found franklin with two inside-50 passes last week) than ronke and stephens, and i'll back the coaches there
not dismissing stephens or ronke, and good luck to them, but at this stage neither would be in my best 25
I dont necessarily disagree that Stephens isn’t quite best 25 (yet).

But he has enormous upside. Skills and tank are outstanding. Once his confidence clicks, he’s going to be a very very good player.

I’d hate to lose him.

Bell, on the other hand, is very limited.
I struggle to think of another forward who has built a career around 6-8 possessions & the odd tackle.

How must Ryan Clarke feel, languishing in the 2’s whilst Bell gets a game just for “trying hard”?
 

Wolftone

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If you did a ladder of all the young, rebuilding sides it would look something like:

1. Sydney
2. Essendon
3. Fremantle
4. St Kilda
5. Carlton
6. Gold Coast
7. Adelaide
8. Hawthorn
9. North Melbourne

Our five remaining games are against these teams, so I hope we put an exclamation mark on how much better we are than them, starting with Freo this week :)
Sorry but Saints actually have the oldest list in AFL

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BruceFromBalnarring

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I dont necessarily disagree that Stephens isn’t quite best 25 (yet).

But he has enormous upside. Skills and tank are outstanding. Once his confidence clicks, he’s going to be a very very good player.

I’d hate to lose him.

Bell, on the other hand, is very limited.
I struggle to think of another forward who has built a career around 6-8 possessions & the odd tackle.

How must Ryan Clarke feel, languishing in the 2’s whilst Bell gets a game just for “trying hard”?
I don’t think one person has suggested that Bell deserves a spot for “trying hard”.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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In a different way they have
No. It’s a debate I’ve engaged in and followed closely. The argument is that he plays a role requiring intense discipline. By being so disciplined he allows our more creative forwards the freedom to take risks. He also causes exiting defenders to go to less favourable options by closing off their preferred outlets.

Moreover, because he is so reliable in his role, he affords us the opportunity to develop more talented players in the Reserves rather than potentially destroying their confidence by playing them at senior level before they are ready.

If it were just “effort”, Clarke would never miss a game.
 

SM

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OK. I think you are wrong. Benny is a quality player who brings huge pressure because not only is he super quick he is super strong in the tackle. He will play this week. I hope he proves you wrong mate because every time he goes out on the park he puts in 100%. We have had much more talented players who never did that and didn't live up to their potential over the years.

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Have you just gone through and quoted a number of posts from a previous discussion? :p
 

Bloods86

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The only way I can explain people thinking Stephens is disinterested, meek and has been off since day one (and there's multiple) is that some people didn't watch the Swans last year, don't watch much VFL (or only his single poor game for the year), and have gone to put the kettle on when he's laid tackles and gone into contests this year (I've seen it a bunch of times).

Yes, he's had some poor moments, as a 2nd, in some ways 1st, year player. After his attack on the ball last year and his concussion in pre season, maybe he's been told to look after himself, who knows, and he's struggling to find the balance, with the roles he's got at reserves vs senior level.
 

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Dubai Quacker

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Yep. Forgot! I still have no idea how we are planning to cover Walters etc.
Walters is on the slide - there’s been a heap of talk in the media here in the West re: whether or not he even keeps his spot.

Key to beating Freo is:

* Negate Mundy.
* Don’t bomb long - Luke Ryan & co. lap that stuff up.
 

GCB85

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I know people in here are poles apart in the Bell debate but there is clearly something Bell is doing or providing that is keeping him in the team. I think we can all agree the coaching and selection staff have barely put a foot wrong this year and it is likely that we will finish at the top end or higher of predictions for even the most positive thinking of us all. While we will never be told, Bell is clearly doing what has been asked of him to maintain a spot. After what I have seen us do this year, I am putting 100% faith in the decision to keep him in the side and when the time comes to send him to the 2’s I will back that as right call as well.
 

the hypnotoad

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No. It’s a debate I’ve engaged in and followed closely. The argument is that he plays a role requiring intense discipline. By being so disciplined he allows our more creative forwards the freedom to take risks. He also causes exiting defenders to go to less favourable options by closing off their preferred outlets.

Moreover, because he is so reliable in his role, he affords us the opportunity to develop more talented players in the Reserves rather than potentially destroying their confidence by playing them at senior level before they are ready.

If it were just “effort”, Clarke would never miss a game.
agreed ... i think the role-playing thing also takes in team chemistry, and i think bell has contributed in that regard
the one point i'll make in defence of the likes of ronke (and clarke) is that he probably has not played in a swans team going anywhere near as well as this one ... but that may also be a reflection on what he lacks
 

Caj

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No. It’s a debate I’ve engaged in and followed closely. The argument is that he plays a role requiring intense discipline. By being so disciplined he allows our more creative forwards the freedom to take risks. He also causes exiting defenders to go to less favourable options by closing off their preferred outlets.

Moreover, because he is so reliable in his role, he affords us the opportunity to develop more talented players in the Reserves rather than potentially destroying their confidence by playing them at senior level before they are ready.

If it were just “effort”, Clarke would never miss a game.
The same people lauding Bell are probably the same ones who criticised Gary Rohan
 

Caj

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I know people in here are poles apart in the Bell debate but there is clearly something Bell is doing or providing that is keeping him in the team. I think we can all agree the coaching and selection staff have barely put a foot wrong this year and it is likely that we will finish at the top end or higher of predictions for even the most positive thinking of us all. While we will never be told, Bell is clearly doing what has been asked of him to maintain a spot. After what I have seen us do this year, I am putting 100% faith in the decision to keep him in the side and when the time comes to send him to the 2’s I will back that as right call as well.

Barring something exceptional and against the trend against Freo, he should be back in the VFL next week when Mills and Cunningham return
 

BruceFromBalnarring

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The same people lauding Bell are probably the same ones who criticised Gary Rohan
That makes no sense. What’s your point?

Aside from his Grand Final performances, my criticism of Gary Rohan started with his choice to ditch the mother of his children in favour of the club physio. Marriage can be difficult. Sometimes you need to tough it out.
 

Caj

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That makes no sense. What’s your point?

Aside from his Grand Final performances, my criticism of Gary Rohan started with his choice to ditch the mother of his children in favour of the club physio. Marriage can be difficult. Sometimes you need to tough it out.
sorry BFB didn’t mean to single you out

the point I was making was that Rohan was having similar possession games (but kicking goals as well) and was widely criticised

Bell could have 2 possessions and posters would still be lauding his pressure, as if Parker, Papley and the rest of the team don’t do that in addition to their obvious contributions
 
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