Unofficial Preview Sydney Versus Melbourne

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LukeParkerno1

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There’s one positive- the Singapore races should be on at the same time. Game will likely be as woeful as our Fremantle game, one team will be more awful than the other
 

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caesar88

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Curley agrees with me... Fox out, a ruck to come in and help McLean.

Why do I feel like selection won’t be that simple....
 

The Gong

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Curley agrees with me... Fox out, a ruck to come in and help McLean.

Why do I feel like selection won’t be that simple....
I like that idea, too. Two ruck combo, play the resting ruck forward to help Reid and try and keep what's left of our forward and backline structures.
 

SSwans2011

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Rose into the ruck.

It's clearly the logical move but Horse won't do it because of his unfair treatment of Rose smh
 

SSwans2011

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It'll never happen. Horse and Rose have a blood feud going back years. It's the only explanation.
Do feel sorry for James and hope he gets a crack elsewhere. Think he could be handy in a more attacking team, but he's just not really suited to our pretty stubborn game plan.
 

The Gong

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Do feel sorry for James and hope he gets a crack elsewhere. Think he could be handy in a more attacking team, but he's just not really suited to our pretty stubborn game plan.
He's actually cracked the team in a year when we've moved away from the dire grind out playstyle and we're actually looking to move the ball quickly. He had 3 or 4 pretty good games for us and I liked him on the wing. I'd still consider him a fringe player and if we had a full list to choose from I still don't think he would've cracked the firsts. I suspect we might delist him as he's hit the ripe old age of 23. He's getting past that age bracket for a young, developing player. If he hasn't made it yet he's probably not going to.

Wish him all the best because he's been very patient waiting for his opportunities but wouldn't be surprised if he sought out other options.
 

Ticky009

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Hope Bell gets another run. Didn't really get much of a chance against Port considering the overall poor team performance. Needs another chance to show something.
He's got some serious speed, but like you said he didn't get much of a chance to show it. I'd like him to stay in for this one.
 

SSwans2011

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He's actually cracked the team in a year when we've moved away from the dire grind out playstyle and we're actually looking to move the ball quickly. He had 3 or 4 pretty good games for us and I liked him on the wing. I'd still consider him a fringe player and if we had a full list to choose from I still don't think he would've cracked the firsts. I suspect we might delist him as he's hit the ripe old age of 23. He's getting past that age bracket for a young, developing player. If he hasn't made it yet he's probably not going to.

Wish him all the best because he's been very patient waiting for his opportunities but wouldn't be surprised if he sought out other options.
That's the thing though. We dropped him and immediately went back to a more defensive gameplan not long after. That was pretty telling to me.

Compare how we played that month he was in the side against the likes of West Coast, Hawthorn and (to a lesser extent) the Suns to how we played against Carlton and Fremantle. We appear to be more attacking again but the difference within a few weeks was startling.

Even in the Essendon match we showed intent IMO.
 

The Gong

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That's the thing though. We dropped him and immediately went back to a more defensive gameplan not long after. That was pretty telling to me.

Compare how we played that month he was in the side against the likes of West Coast, Hawthorn and (to a lesser extent) the Suns to how we played against Carlton and Fremantle. We appear to be more attacking again but the difference within a few weeks was startling.

Even in the Essendon match we showed intent IMO.
We didn't change the gameplan. We got smacked in hitouts and clearances so were constantly on the back foot, defending. I've seen all season the intent to try and move the ball quickly through the corridor. Some times that's worked brilliantly with some beautiful ball movement. Other times it's caused numerous turnovers and we are getting heavily scored against on turnovers. But the intent is there and the young players will get better.
 

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SSwans2011

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We didn't change the gameplan. We got smacked in hitouts and clearances so were constantly on the back foot, defending. I've seen all season the intent to try and move the ball quickly through the corridor. Some times that's worked brilliantly with some beautiful ball movement. Other times it's caused numerous turnovers and we are getting heavily scored against on turnovers. But the intent is there and the young players will get better.
Agree to disagree, but I thought we reverted back to the incessant chipping it around the backline strategy which drove us mad for years. Maybe it just seemed this way because the standard of football was so low, but I thought our intent really dropped off until the Geelong game.
 

caesar88

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Do feel sorry for James and hope he gets a crack elsewhere. Think he could be handy in a more attacking team, but he's just not really suited to our pretty stubborn game plan.
To play in an attacking team, one must be able to take routine chest marks and be able to kick the ball over the man on the mark.

I agree that there are Swans who would benefit from being in more attacking sides. Rose ain’t one of them. He’s just no good.
 

The Gong

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Agree to disagree, but I thought we reverted back to the incessant chipping it around the backline strategy which drove us mad for years. Maybe it just seemed this way because the standard of football was so low, but I thought our intent really dropped off until the Geelong game.
All good. I tend to see that as the players going away from the gameplan rather than a conscious change of the gameplan. If they're under the pump they go back into their shell a bit and tend to revert to chipping it about.
 

The Gong

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To play in an attacking team, one must be able to take routine chest marks and be able to kick the ball over the man on the mark.

I agree that there are Swans who would benefit from being in more attacking sides. Rose ain’t one of them. He’s just no good.
Bit harsh. He looked at times like he very much belonged but that particular game did him no favours.
 

SSwans2011

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To play in an attacking team, one must be able to take routine chest marks and be able to kick the ball over the man on the mark.

I agree that there are Swans who would benefit from being in more attacking sides. Rose ain’t one of them. He’s just no good.
Wow a player makes a couple of mistakes. No other Swan has ever done that.

He plays 1 bad game out of his 5 opportunities and that's enough for you to write him off. Bell didn't impact he game last week. Should we drop him? Of course not. Dawson didn't play well in round 1 this year. Thank fu** we backed him in anyway.
Bit harsh. He looked at times like he very much belonged but that particular game did him no favours.
He also had 56% TOG that game. Like Bloodied52 said, and this is admittedly all speculation, but he looked like he knew he was on the way out and the coaches had no confidence in him by the time the GWS game rolled around.
 

Olian

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To play in an attacking team, one must be able to take routine chest marks and be able to kick the ball over the man on the mark.

I agree that there are Swans who would benefit from being in more attacking sides. Rose ain’t one of them. He’s just no good.
Aliir couldn’t hold a mark last week. Should he be dropped?
 

caesar88

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Wow a player makes a couple of mistakes. No other Swan has ever done that.

He plays 1/5 bad games and that's enough for you to write him off. Bell didn't impact he game last week. Should we drop him? Of course not.

He also had 56% TOG that game. Like Bloodied52 said, and this is admittedly all speculation, but he looked like he knew he was on the way out and the coaches had no confidence in him by the time the GWS game rolled around.
Mistakes are fine. But if you haven’t been involved and then when you get your opportunities and you fluff them, how is that the game plan’s fault?

Bell was on debut. He wasn’t playing after 5 years on an AFL list.
 

SSwans2011

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Mistakes are fine. But if you haven’t been involved and then when you get your opportunities and you fluff them, how is that the game plan’s fault?

Bell was on debut. He wasn’t playing after 5 years on an AFL list.
He fluffed 1 opportunity after taking 4. Dawson fluffed his first opportunity this year. Should have dropped him, yeah?
Not even gonna bite.
He's not trolling. Rose has played 4 solid to good games this year and one poor game. You choose to ignore those 4 previous games and only consider the one game where he had 56% TOG.
 

caesar88

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He fluffed 1 opportunity after taking 4. Dawson fluffed his first opportunity this year. Should have dropped him, yeah?

He's not trolling. Rose has played 4 solid to good games this year and one poor game. You choose to ignore those 4 previous games and only consider the one game where he had 56% TOG.
FFS

I am happy to have a discussion about Rose but you lose me when you start trying to make parallels between Rose and Allir, or Rose and Dawson.

Aliir has been in our top 5 players all season, and Dawson has been good enough to feature in our bests a few times this season. Rose has done neither of those things.

Looking at his numbers, you’d be better off comparing him to a Blakey or a Rowbottom. Not having big numbers, not having big TOG numbers. But even then he loses out when you realise he is 23, and they are 18. You can show patience with them, not so much with a 23 year old in his fifth season.
 

SSwans2011

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FFS

I am happy to have a discussion about Rose but you lose me when you start trying to make parallels between Rose and Allir, or Rose and Dawson.

Aliir has been in our top 5 players all season, and Dawson has been good enough to feature in our bests a few times this season. Rose has done neither of those things.

Looking at his numbers, you’d be better off comparing him to a Blakey or a Rowbottom. Not having big numbers, not having big TOG numbers. But even then he loses out when you realise he is 23, and they are 18. You can show patience with them, not so much with a 23 year old in his fifth season.
Your argument was that Rose played one poor game and should have been dropped. Before that he had played 4 solid games this season.

When Dawson played poorly in round one he hadn't played one solid game. So good point, they're not comparable.

Nobody is comparing them. Everyone here knows Dawson and Aliir are much better players. But you're holding Rose to different standards for some bizarre reason.

The fact of the matter is Rose has played one poor game, and four pretty good ones. For you, that's enough to write him off. For others, it doesn't seem to be. That's the crux of the arguments. The Dawson and Aliir arguments only arose because of a clear inconsistency in your argument that one poor game is enough to say Rose won't make it, but isn't enough for others. And it shouldn't be. Because that's just plain silly.
 

caesar88

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Your argument was that Rose played one poor game and should have been dropped. Before that he had played 4 solid games this season.

When Dawson played poorly in round one he hadn't played one solid game. So good point, they're not comparable.

Nobody is comparing them. Everyone here knows Dawson and Aliir are much better players. But you're holding Rose to different standards for some bizarre reason.

The fact of the matter is Rose has played one poor game, and four pretty good ones. For you, that's enough to write him off. For others, it doesn't seem to be. That's the crux of the arguments. The Dawson and Aliir arguments only arose because of a clear inconsistency in your argument that one poor game is enough to say Rose won't make it, but isn't enough for others.
Four pretty good ones - not true. I thought he was shocking against the Bombers. Not as bad as Ronke, who should’ve been dropped, but still pretty bad. Especially his work rate.

The other three were solid.

So I amend my original statement: three solid games, and two shockers, in a career that’s mostly comprised of shockers, is enough to write him off.

Happy?
 

SSwans2011

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Four pretty good ones - not true. I thought he was shocking against the Bombers. Not as bad as Ronke, who should’ve been dropped, but still pretty bad. Especially his work rate.

The other three were solid.

So I amend my original statement: three solid games, and two shockers, in a career that’s mostly comprised of shockers, is enough to write him off.

Happy?
Shocking? You're kidding right. He had 11 touches and a goal playing predominantly forward with (again) very little TOG. We missed plenty of sitters that day and he kicked one from 40 on a sharp angle. No clangers and almost perfect efficiency. 3 tackles, which doesn't sound like much, but was more than most - we only had 39 that day and they were breaking tackles everywhere.

You're exaggerating how "shocking" he was that day, and at the time most here were pretty happy with how he was tracking and not happy when he was dropped. You're rewriting history to suit your narrative. His career also actually isn't mostly comprised with shockers. Last time he got an extended shot at it (2016) he was actually super solid and was, again, dropped after one howler.

No wonder he could never lock down a spot in the team. I'm one of the first here to defend Ollie, but imagine if we dropped him every time he had a howler, and then, for the most part, he wasn't seen in the seniors for a year again.

I wonder why Florent tends to play with confidence and Rose often doesn't.
 
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