Unofficial Preview Sydney Versus Melbourne

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caesar88

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Shocking? You're kidding right. He had 11 touches and a goal playing predominantly forward with (again) very little TOG. We missed plenty of sitters that day and he kicked one from 40 on a sharp angle. No clangers and almost perfect efficiency. 3 tackles, which doesn't sound like much, but was more than most - we only had 39 that day and they were breaking tackles everywhere.

You're exaggerating how "shocking" he was that day, and at the time most here were pretty happy with how he was tracking and not happy when he was dropped. You're rewriting history to suit your narrative. His career also actually isn't mostly comprised with shockers. Last time he got an extended shot at it (2016) he was actually super solid and was, again, dropped after one howler.

No wonder he could never lock down a spot in the team. I'm one of the first here to defend Ollie, but imagine if we dropped him every time he had a howler, and then, for the most part, he wasn't seen in the seniors for a year again.

I wonder why Florent tends to play with confidence and Rose often doesn't.
He is 23 and has been on the list for 5 years!! For him to be playing on a level that is comparable with guys like Florent, Ronke, Blakey, Rowbottom and Bell says it all!

Ps. Since when did having an opinion become narrative-spinning?
 

SSwans2011

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He is 23 and has been on the list for 5 years!! For him to be playing on a level that is comparable with guys like Florent, Ronke, Blakey, Rowbottom and Bell says it all!

Ps. Since when did having an opinion become narrative-spinning?
You expect him to be at a level higher than them when he's only really just getting a crack at AFL level? Usually takes players a while to find their feet at the level, regardless of age. Seldom do players come out and immediately tear it up. Even if he wasn't going to show much more improvement, him playing at that level suggests he should be around the best 22 anyway...

Having an opinion isn't narrative-spinning, but when that opinion seems to be contradictory to stats and the general consensus at the time, I get a bit suspicious.

Heck, you even said this after he was dropped:
Not a Rose fan but geez he earned a bit of faith with the few weeks prior to last. And Ronke was worse than Rose last week.
 

caesar88

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You expect him to be at a level higher than them when he's only really just getting a crack at AFL level? Usually takes players a while to find their feet at the level, regardless of age. Seldom do players come out and immediately tear it up. Even if he wasn't going to show much more improvement, him playing at that level suggests he should be around the best 22 anyway...

Having an opinion isn't narrative-spinning, but when that opinion seems to be contradictory to stats and the general consensus at the time, I get a bit suspicious.

Heck, you even said this after he was dropped:
Correct. As I said he shouldn’t have been dropped I think he deserved one more game to try and get into the groove of AFL footy after a solid three weeks. But I’m tiring of waiting for him to get into the groove. He shouldn’t need that time. Look at how Florent stepped up last year as a teenager in his second year and improved out of sight. Raw youngsters like Blakey and Rowbottom have come in in their first year and had games that are better than any Rose has ever had. Ronke in his first handful of games after debuting showed everyone what he can do. They’ve all done what you have to do at AFL level which is really stand up and deliver, even if for one match when the opportunity was there. And they’re all a lot younger than Rose.

I guess I am just of the belief that if I haven’t seen a performance that shows the kind of player Rose could be at 23 and after 5 years on the list, then I never will see it, so would rather cut our losses now for the sake of all involved. I may be too impatient, you may be too patient, who knows. But that’s just where I’m coming from. I don’t think that’s narrative-spinning.
 

SSwans2011

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Correct. As I said he shouldn’t have been dropped I think he deserved one more game to try and get into the groove of AFL footy after a solid three weeks. But I’m tiring of waiting for him to get into the groove. He shouldn’t need that time. Look at how Florent stepped up last year as a teenager in his second year and improved out of sight. Raw youngsters like Blakey and Rowbottom have come in in their first year and had games that are better than any Rose has ever had. Ronke in his first handful of games after debuting showed everyone what he can do. They’ve all done what you have to do at AFL level which is really stand up and deliver, even if for one match when the opportunity was there. And they’re all a lot younger than Rose.

I guess I am just of the belief that if I haven’t seen a performance that shows the kind of player Rose could be at 23 and after 5 years on the list, then I never will see it, so would rather cut our losses now for the sake of all involved. I may be too impatient, you may be too patient, who knows. But that’s just where I’m coming from. I don’t think that’s narrative-spinning.
What about his 2016 performances? Before one bad game against the Cats he was averaging 15 disposals and 6.5 tackles. He was named in the bests against GWS on a day where we got smashed that year. Rowbottom been named in the bests yet? I thought he'd played better matches than Rose ever has.
 

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SSwans2011

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I'll stop arguing about Rose after this post, but I do genuinely believe most people have skewed opinions of him on here because of our ridiculous treatment on him.

2016: He looked super solid. Like I said, averaging 15 disposals and 6.5 tackles, then has one bad game and is dropped. Fair enough. We were a Premiership contender that year.
2017: Brought back when we were at our worst against Carlton. We're beaten and he's scapegoated and dropped and not seen again for over a year.
2018: Brought back for one game against Richmond. Wasn't great. Dropped again.
2019: Puts in a good month, then gets dropped after one (arguably) below average game where he still managed a goal and was strong in his defensive efforts in forward 50. Gets brought back one month later, gets 56% TOG and dropped after one game.

The reality is when Rose has gotten an extended crack, he actually looks like he can be a handy player for us. But unfortunately all too often he gets dropped after one bad performance, or gets brought in and scapegoated when the team is in a vulnerable state. Unfortunately some here simply refuse to recognise that reality and will write him off before he gets a fair crack. Really just annoys me when people come to a conclusion about a player and it's not exactly substantiated by fact.
 

SwansProudly

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Star defender Franklin will get another week of training in and look to play game 300 in the last game of the year against St Kilda at the SCG, with retiring veteran McVeigh also targeting that fixture as a farewell game. Naismith could be back this week or next through the NEAFL ahead of the Swans' reserves finals, while Darcy Cameron is fit to play this week after finally overcoming his quad issue. - Adam Curley

so potential ruck assists for McLean - Cameron, Amartey or Knoll?

I'd vote Amartey
 

The Gong

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Now, if Gawn goes to papley first bounce, ala the Russian/Matera matchup...We will know what they are thinking.
Excuse me. Melbourne didn't tank. They just acted in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the competition...or you know...tanked.
 

GotTheGoodes

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Star defender Franklin will get another week of training in and look to play game 300 in the last game of the year against St Kilda at the SCG, with retiring veteran McVeigh also targeting that fixture as a farewell game. Naismith could be back this week or next through the NEAFL ahead of the Swans' reserves finals, while Darcy Cameron is fit to play this week after finally overcoming his quad issue. - Adam Curley

so potential ruck assists for McLean - Cameron, Amartey or Knoll?

I'd vote Amartey
Oh no.... Horse is swinging Bud back?

The tank really is on... sh*t.
 

Tedeski

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Star defender Franklin will get another week of training in and look to play game 300 in the last game of the year against St Kilda at the SCG, with retiring veteran McVeigh also targeting that fixture as a farewell game. Naismith could be back this week or next through the NEAFL ahead of the Swans' reserves finals, while Darcy Cameron is fit to play this week after finally overcoming his quad issue. - Adam Curley

so potential ruck assists for McLean - Cameron, Amartey or Knoll?

I'd vote Amartey
I vote Knoll.
I want to hear BT say that Knoll is the worst player to ever play AFL.
Then I'll know we are well on track to discovering our next p'ship ruckman.
Refer to Pyke.
 

caesar88

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I'll stop arguing about Rose after this post, but I do genuinely believe most people have skewed opinions of him on here because of our ridiculous treatment on him.

2016: He looked super solid. Like I said, averaging 15 disposals and 6.5 tackles, then has one bad game and is dropped. Fair enough. We were a Premiership contender that year.
2017: Brought back when we were at our worst against Carlton. We're beaten and he's scapegoated and dropped and not seen again for over a year.
2018: Brought back for one game against Richmond. Wasn't great. Dropped again.
2019: Puts in a good month, then gets dropped after one (arguably) below average game where he still managed a goal and was strong in his defensive efforts in forward 50. Gets brought back one month later, gets 56% TOG and dropped after one game.

The reality is when Rose has gotten an extended crack, he actually looks like he can be a handy player for us. But unfortunately all too often he gets dropped after one bad performance, or gets brought in and scapegoated when the team is in a vulnerable state. Unfortunately some here simply refuse to recognise that reality and will write him off before he gets a fair crack. Really just annoys me when people come to a conclusion about a player and it's not exactly substantiated by fact.
Since when did rating or not rating a player have to be based on fact? But in any case...

Handy = depth.

Depth = not consistently in the 22.

Not consistently in the 22 = need to capitalise on your opportunities

Failure to capitalise on your opportunities = passenger/liability

Passenger/liability = delist.
 

Wolfgang West

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There’s one positive- the Singapore races should be on at the same time. Game will likely be as woeful as our Fremantle game, one team will be more awful than the other

So Don't Watch. I have never heard someone hang so much s**t on the club that in some respect would still be considered a guest considering You swapped clubs. Go to the Rooty Hill RSL and knock yourself out on the Singapore Races and the Dapto Dogs but Regardless how woeful the game might be Swans supporters who can watch will watch. Called Loyalty.
 

robbieando

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So Don't Watch. I have never heard someone hang so much s**t on the club that in some respect would still be considered a guest considering You swapped clubs. Go to the Rooty Hill RSL and knock yourself out on the Singapore Races and the Dapto Dogs but Regardless how woeful the game might be Swans supporters who can watch will watch. Called Loyalty.
Bravo
 

Wolfgang West

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Star defender Franklin will get another week of training in and look to play game 300 in the last game of the year against St Kilda at the SCG, with retiring veteran McVeigh also targeting that fixture as a farewell game. Naismith could be back this week or next through the NEAFL ahead of the Swans' reserves finals, while Darcy Cameron is fit to play this week after finally overcoming his quad issue. - Adam Curley

so potential ruck assists for McLean - Cameron, Amartey or Knoll?

I'd vote Amartey
Club trying to cash in on it to try and make up for some of the cash Bonanza they have reaped in after Final series after Finals Series. What other reason would You possibly pull him out of cotton wool for ? Rd 1 next year is just as appealing. Nothing to achieve here other than to play in possibly McVeigh Jack farewells.
 

caesar88

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Club trying to cash in on it to try and make up for some of the cash Bonanza they have reaped in after Final series after Finals Series. What other reason would You possibly pull him out of cotton wool for ? Rd 1 next year is just as appealing. Nothing to achieve here other than to play in possibly McVeigh Jack farewells.
There would be no greater way to start our 2020 campaign than with Buddy's 300th!
 

TheMase

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There would be no greater way to start our 2020 campaign than with Buddy's 300th!
At the MCG vs Hawks, no doubt....

I’d rather it were at the SCG ideally, vs Hawks if necessary. That is unlikely to happen in Round One with the SCG often delayed, plus the AFL will have time to put an appropriate FIXture together.

(Not saying that is a reason to play him, just saying)
 
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