Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon - congratulations on '16 Wooden Spoon (RIP The Scales)

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LuvtheKangas

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6 months for an organised team wide performance enhancing drug program ????
The AFL will be a world wide laughing stock
Agree entirely. The cynical self-protection of the AFL Commission has been a large part of why the whole saga wasn't fully investigated and appropriately punished in 2013.
 
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Jungle drums beating louder that the backdated 6-month suspensions have been agreed and will be announced quite soon.

It means the banned players will miss the first six games and be available for round 7 against us. Explains the big party around * players coming out with fanfare in the dark for that game.

I suspect that ASADA / WADA will appeal.
So even though we wait seven rounds we STILL play *their round one side (effectively).
 

Thrawn

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Jungle drums beating louder that the backdated 6-month suspensions have been agreed and will be announced quite soon.
The drums were beating on Middleton favouring Essendon too, and we all know what happened there. Turns out they were screams of "Hirdy is innocent" by a rabid group of supporters outside the courtroom.

Six months is not going to happen, unless there are a couple of players who brought to ASADA's knowledge incriminating evidence that is strong enough to land a doping conviction. That includes a confession of guilt. It's just not gonna happen, due to their support of Hird, insistence for the club to fight their case in court while hiding under their skirts, and their collective "we didn't take anything banned but if we did, we was duped" line.

Another thing that blows this rumour out of the water is that the upcoming decision is only going to announce a verdict. There will be a separate hearing with regards to penalties.
 

shiraz

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You missed about 4 *

My understanding is that AFL have control over the sentencing, subject to appeal by WADA. I don't trust the AFL not to engineer this thing politically however they can. Do you know how long a WADA appeal to CAS takes? Say, for example, that a guilty finding is announced in round 3, and a sentencing hearing announced for round 6... Then AFL declare at sentencing that the players were duped and all cooperated, resulting in a 6 month backdated penalty which has already been served. Subsequently, the players are free to play until the appeal is heard. Could the appeal process possibly be drawn out until the end of the season??? WADA appeals to CAS and wins, but in the meantime the * players have played out the season and the revised suspension of 12 months has almost been completed...
 

Thrawn

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My understanding is that AFL have control over the sentencing, subject to appeal by WADA.
Then you've misunderstood. The tribunal has to be independent from the sporting body - it's a legal requirement. The panel members presiding over this are not AFL patsies. The chair of the panel happens to be an ex-judge who led independent enquires on police corruption. Do you honestly believe he'll do what the AFL asks him to?

The AFL have absolutely zero power and control over this. They can make recommendations to what the players may get, and they can determine whether or not the actual club is punished further. But that's it. They actually have no role in handing out the punishments here, that's for Jones, Nixon and Henwood to decide.
 

shiraz

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Then you've misunderstood. The tribunal has to be independent from the sporting body - it's a legal requirement. The panel members presiding over this are not AFL patsies. The chair of the panel happens to be an ex-judge who led independent enquires on police corruption. Do you honestly believe he'll do what the AFL asks him to?

The AFL have absolutely zero power and control over this. They can make recommendations to what the players may get, and they can determine whether or not the actual club is punished further. But that's it. They actually have no role in handing out the punishments here, that's for Jones, Nixon and Henwood to decide.
Does the tribunal do the sentencing too?
 

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LuvtheKangas

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The drums were beating on Middleton favouring Essendon too, and we all know what happened there. Turns out they were screams of "Hirdy is innocent" by a rabid group of supporters outside the courtroom.

Six months is not going to happen, unless there are a couple of players who brought to ASADA's knowledge incriminating evidence that is strong enough to land a doping conviction. That includes a confession of guilt. It's just not gonna happen, due to their support of Hird, insistence for the club to fight their case in court while hiding under their skirts, and their collective "we didn't take anything banned but if we did, we was duped" line.

Another thing that blows this rumour out of the water is that the upcoming decision is only going to announce a verdict. There will be a separate hearing with regards to penalties.
What you say - in the above and subsequent posts - is 100% logical and a more likely outcome than what I heard and posted (which, as you allude, was probably started by * supporters).
 

shintemaster

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The AFL have absolutely zero power and control over this. They can make recommendations to what the players may get, and they can determine whether or not the actual club is punished further. But that's it. They actually have no role in handing out the punishments here, that's for Jones, Nixon and Henwood to decide.
It's always been the dilemma for them in this whole thing. They want to protect Essendon and their brand but at the same time they need to be hit so hard that other teams don't even think about doing anything like this ever again. Let's be honest, if proven guilty a slap on the wrist will just encourage other teams on the edge to push the boundaries and "lose" the evidence.
 

joegreen

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No the AFL do the sentencing. Presuming there is a guilty verdict handed down ASADA will prepare a letter on behalf of each * player with their recommended penalty. ASADA will include instructions to the AFL to put it on AFL letterhead and send to each * player.

Once the AFL receive this they will meet to determine the penalty. They need to decide whether to go with ASADA's recommendation or impose their own penalty. If ASADA/WADA are not satisfied they will appeal.

There will no doubt be 'quiet' discussions between the AFL and ASADA as to what ASADA officially recommend... that is where it will be interesting.
 

joegreen

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This is an example of the type of letter ASADA will prepare for the AFL to send to *.


Mr *
C/O *FC
Tullamarine


Dear Mr *,

Re: Anti-Doping Rule Violation

We refer to the Register of Findings letter sent to you by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) dated XXXXXXX.

We notify you that the Australian Football League (AFL) believes that you have violated rule XXXX of Chapter X of the AFL’s Competition Rules 2012. Chapter X of these Rules comprise the anti-doping policy of the AFL (the Policy). Rule XXXX of the Policy <<insert specific section relating to how they were found to be guilty – all the evidence – usually this is refusing or failing without compelling justification to submit to Sample collection after notification as authorized in applicable anti-doping rules or otherwise evading sample collection (Failure to Comply) constitutes an anti-doping rule violation. It was alleged that on XXXXXXXXX, at the XXXXX in XXXX, XXXX, you committed a Failure to Comply OR in relation to the adverse analytical finding detected in sample #XXXXXXX and the alleged presence of a prohibited substance in that sample. The alleged presence of a prohibited substance or its metabolites or markers in an athlete’s sample is an Anti-Doping Rule Violation as prescribed in Rule XXX of the Policy.>>

We understand that ASADA also forwarded to you an infraction notice dated XXXX. The infraction notice provided you with a 14 day period within which to elect to have a hearing in relation to this matter. ASADA has informed the AFL that on XXXXX, you waived your right to a hearing in this matter. Accordingly, under rule XXX of the Policy, a sanction can be applied in accordance with rule XXX of the Policy. The Anti-Doping Rule Violation Panel (ADRVP) has considered your matter and the submission you provided to it, and has recommended to the AFL that you be subject to a period of Ineligibility of two (2) years. (You can only hope!!)


Period of Ineligibility
The AFL hereby informs you, in accordance with rule XXXX of the Policy, that it has decided to impose a period of ineligibility on you, and that the period of ineligibility for your violation is two (2) years. Furthermore, under the Policy the appropriate start date of the period of ineligibility is XXXXX, being the date on which you made admissions concerning the anti-doping rule violation to the ADRVP.

We draw your attention to rule XXXXX of the Policy, which provides in part:

“Status During Ineligibility

Prohibition Against Participation During Ineligibility

No Athlete or other Person who has been declared Ineligible may, during the period of Ineligibility, participate in any capacity in any Competition or activity, other than in authorised anti-doping education or rehabilitation programs, which are authorised or organised by the AFL or any Area Association or Member (or any Club or other member organization of a Member) or Signatory (or Signatory’s member or a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member) or in competitions authorised or organised by any professional league or any international or national-level organization”.

Furthermore, under the mutual recognition of decision rules, you are also prohibited from competing in all other sports with a World Anti-Doping Agency compliant anti-doping policy. Other relevant sports and stakeholders will be informed of the outcome of your matter in accordance with the Policy.

Please note however that this does not prohibit you from participating in sport on a purely recreational level. Should you have a question as to what level of participation constitutes “recreational participation”, please contact the AFL or ASADA to discuss.

Accordingly, you are eligible to re-commence competing in sport from XXXXXXX.

Yours sincerely

Gillon McLachlan
CEO
AFL

CC Senior ASADA Lawyer
 

Thrawn

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No the AFL do the sentencing.
The people who will decide on the penalties are David Jones, John Nixon and Wayne Henwood. That is their job. That is why we have an independent anti-doping tribunal in the first place.

The AFL are not there to decide the guilt of the players, or what their penalties are. The AFL will enforce the sentence, but that doesn't mean they decide on what the sentence will actually be. What'd be the point of an independent tribunal otherwise?

I don't know why people keep on assuming it's up to the AFL to decide when they've left the decision making to three tribunal members, and left ASADA to prosecute because they had a better handle on things.
 
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Jay-Z

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The people who will decide on the penalties are David Jones, John Nixon and Wayne Henwood. That is their job. That is why we have an independent anti-doping tribunal in the first place.

The AFL are not there to decide the guilt of the players, or what their penalties are.

I don't know why people keep on assuming it's up to the AFL to decide when they've left the decision making to three tribunal members, and left ASADA to prosecute because they had a better handle on things.
This is correct. Note this article:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl...ys-silent-20150304-13v3fu.html?skin=text-only

It says the AFL have made a suggestion to the panel on what it thinks the penalties should be. Which means ultimately, the panel will decide
 

joegreen

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The panel determine the guilt. That I agree with.

ASADA put forward a recommended penalty, which is what the article is referring. What the AFL are hoping for is that recommendation is in line with their views (whatever they are). Makes for an easy process.

The AFL are hoping that they don't have to go against ASADA in ratifying the penalty.

The players have broken the AFL's doping policy and therefore must be sanctioned under that... It will be the AFL that has to sign off on the penalty... Not to say ASADA won't argue, hence their right of appeal.

I'm close enough to this process to know....
 

joegreen

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joegreen
Do you know how long a WADA appeal to CAS would take, assuming they are unsatisfied with the penalty?
Are there any actions that AFL could take to delay the appeal (that immediately come to mind)?
Not first hand sorry. I'd have to look it up. Have seen one case drag through the appeals process and courts for 2 years.... By the time it was all done he was still guilty and time was taken as served. Had stood down the whole time and was allowed to compete within weeks of the final decision as a result.

There are standard processes for the appeal, not much room to delay. One thing now at least is the governance in place should see relatively clear timeframes for each stage/outcome. All up to the panel now to set the next stage in motion.
 
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