Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon II - over 6500 days since EFC won a final / AC signs w NM, EFC implode / RIP D2D and T_S

[tazaa]

astrovic and B Tron
Your posts are just top notch
Delightful reads

Tis the reason opposition supporters flock here for some damn good quality viewing

 

[GarnerSmash]

Yeah the AFL treated Essendon 'so badly'... Even though it was the AFL tribunal that initially decided not to hand out any suspensions which caused ASADA to bring the case to WADA. So... it wasn't the AFL that gave Essendon the heads up about the investigation and tried to, at every turn, minimise the damage the saga inevitably did the the AFL brand.

I don't understand the logic, why would the AFL purposefully target 34 players and an entire club unless the club had something to hide. There is no gain for the AFL to scapegoat a club just to prove a point about PED use, and throughout the entire saga, the AFL has been like that mate trying to get a junkie into rehab, with the junkie in a feverish paranoia blaming the AFL for attempting to make them accept their responsibility in the situation.

Once the cat was out of the bag and it was clear that no rug was going to be big enough to hide this s**t, the AFL operated with the percieved intent of acting tough. This got * supporters off side (acceptable outcome for the AFL) but when it came to the crunch self interest prevailed with the tribunal decision. Sure, they needed to kill some sacrificial lambs along the way, but there was never any chance that they were going to do anything that had the potential to tarnish their reputation or damage their bottom line. Being signatories to WADA is the only thing that stopped this from going unpunished, otherwise this would have been put under a rug and stayed there.

 

[Arden]

Case in point.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-10/james-hird-was-let-down-by-people-he-trusted-says-father

JAMES Hird's major health crisis that saw him taken to hospital came "out of the blue", his father Allan says.

And he said football officials were "thugs" and "bullies" without "a moral compass" for their treatment of his son in the aftermath of Essendon's supplement scandal.

The former Essendon coach was admitted to Cabrini Malvern Hospital last Wednesday.

Allan Hird approached Melbourne radio station 3AW to speak about his son in a recorded interview that was aired on Tuesday morning. He said James Hird was well.

"He's fine. My daughter's been keeping me regularly informed. I'm in Brisbane and I'm coming down shortly to see him.

"I had no inkling. It was just out of the blue, but anyway, that's where it is."

Hird said his son placed too much trust in the people around him during the saga that saw 34 Essendon players suspended by the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

"He put too much trust in the club doing the right thing, he put too much trust in the AFL, he put too much trust in our system of government," Hird said.

"I think if he had his time over again, he would have done it differently."

Hird called for a top-level inquiry to look into the supplements scandal, with the people who handled the matter - including former federal government ministers and AFL and Essendon officials - giving evidence under oath.

He accused administrators of conspiring to make Hird the scapegoat for the ill-fated supplement program, protesting his son's innocence.

"Get them to tell the truth. Get the truth out there and we'll see where it lies," he said.

"A 'conspiracy' is probably the wrong word in a legal sense, but in the general public's eye, I'd say a conspiracy between the Gillard government, the AFL and elements of the Essendon board, plus the Australian Anti-Doping Authority to get a result for something to get everyone out of a hole.

"The Gillard government had got itself into a hole ... overblew that crime commission report enormously and they needed something and they did that for political reasons.

"Both his employers were gunning for him but there was nothing specific he had ever done and there still isn't."

Hird was released from Cabrini on Thursday and is receiving treatment elsewhere.

His wife Tania on Friday issued a brief statement pleading for privacy.

"We wish to express our appreciation for the public support that has been given to James and our family since news of his hospitalisation became known," she said.

"At this time James and the Hird family are in need of privacy. We ask that this privacy be respected.

"We particularly ask this of the media contingent currently gathered at our house.

"James' health is our primary focus and concern."

Two points:

1. Thanks Dad for maintaining the "it was everyone else's fault but James's" line. Good one. I'm sure that helps. Funnily enough, if you step outside that narrative for a moment, this major health crisis doesn't come "out of the blue" at all. Woods for the trees and all that, I guess.

2. Any media contingent gathered anywhere within 10km's of Hird's house should **** right off, immediately. Their door stopping of the *Hird family throughout this saga has been totally wrong.

What a foamer.

The thing I continually don't understand with these bell ends is their angst towards the AFL. Apparently it's an AFL conspiracy to get at Essendon and Hird, yet the AFL warned Hird off pursuing peptides and then Vlad tried to tip them off. And the thanks that they got was Essendon then trying to hang them out to dry for it.

It makes less than zero sense. It's about as logical as "we don't know what the players were injected with but we are sure it wasn't banned."

Seriously, Hird Snr, take a look in the mirror, perhaps your treatment of James contributed to his never wrong attitude.

 

[darko]

Essendon could've made this whole thing go away had they put their hand up like Cronulla and copped their fair whack.

 

[darko]

AFL treated Hird and Bombers badly? Please. The only reason WADA got involved is because they realized ASADA is useless and AFL aren't doing enough.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

What a foamer.

The thing I continually don't understand with these bell ends is their angst towards the AFL. Apparently it's an AFL conspiracy to get at Essendon and Hird, yet the AFL warned Hird off pursuing peptides and then Vlad tried to tip them off. And the thanks that they got was Essendon then trying to hang them out to dry for it.

It makes less than zero sense. It's about as logical as "we don't know what the players were injected with but we are sure it wasn't banned."

Seriously, Hird Snr, take a look in the mirror, perhaps your treatment of James contributed to never wrong attitude.

The biggest favour the AFL did for * was to allow the case to drag out for so long that the club was able to dump up to 22 disposable schlubs. They were left with only 12 serving players that copped a suspension.

Interesting that the interests of the 22 were completely ignored by all and sundry, including the Hirds, the Watsons, the McVitamins and the Littles, the AFLPA and the almighty AFL itself. The job was to strip off as much of the suspendable playing group as possible, while retaining those who were tagged as probable stars who were young enough to come back.

* supporters should have been furious with this, but the ones who stood by seem to be OK with their club's (failed) attempt to cheat, and then throw away 2 or 3 seasons, plus a generation of young talent. If * had copped it sweet for what they did, stood by it's players and owned the outcomes of this, they could at least be forgiven. As it is, there has been no apology - the only times they've said sorry were to lament being caught out. They had a chance to stand up, but like their ancestral dogs, this administration has failed the test of integrity.

 

[utility]

 

[Saintly35]

I'm supportive Hird and his family moving on with their lives and deserve privacy in doing so, but I must say that comments in media, BF and elsewhere about how the AFL and Essendon have shafted Hird are absolutely baffling.

It's almost like these commentators have completely recreated history and decided to throw all known facts out the window, just to suit a newly found narrative based on Hird's overdose (of which we don't even know why, it could be totally unrelated to the drugs scandal).

The * thread on this topic is perplexing. It would seem for many that supporters' priority rests more with their golden boy than the club itself - considering the multiple negative consequences of what said golden boy and his pack of goons did which have directly affected these same supporters by destroying the club for years now, you would think it would be the complete opposite.

If anything they should be thanking the AFL and their club, both went way above and beyond to try and sweep it under the rug and protect Hird, despite his aggressive (albeit failed) litigation attempts, and the thanks they are getting for it is a kick in the teeth.

Quite amazing really.

 

[astrovic]

Essendon could've made this whole thing go away had they put their hand up like Cronulla and copped their fair whack.

Like the AFL bent over backwards to make happen, including trying to strongarm ASADA into doing that deal. They would have, too. It was * that said no and at that point it was on like kong.

Man, Cronulla made off like bandits in comparison to *. I can picture all the donialists on here (the same ones loudly proclaiming that no one could prove the players took banned drugs) loudly crowing about how a Cronulla-type punishment meant they "got away with it". And they would have been right, too.

It still beggars belief. If they had done it right, they could have copped a ban that saw them sit out roughly rounds 18 to 22 in 2013 (when *'s season was rooted anyway), have that ban be completed over the off-season by - coincidentally - just before the NAB challenge started, and be back up and running by round 1 2014 (albeit with no draft picks). That's a 6 month ban of which 1 month is served in season. IIRC that's still worse than Cronulla got, so it could probably be improved upon.

Instead - 2013 got ruined by the saga...2014 got ruined by the saga...2015 got ruined by the saga...2016 got ruined due to half the players being banned due to the saga...and here we are, still laughing and shaking our heads in amazement 4 years later.

Dropkicks.

EDIT: I should add, a large part of the AFL community (whatever that is) still holds the strong belief that the players themselves were victims in all of this, whose only culpability was naively trusting the club and its officials to do the right thing. Very few people seem to actually see them as drug cheats (to which I beg to differ personally).

So even if the players strongly believed they were innocent (ie had never taken anything prohibited, despite having at best a sketchy idea of what they were injected with), but nonetheless took a short ban to be pragmatic and put the shitstorm behind them, barely a soul in AFLdom would have thought less of them for doing so. So once more, their reasons for fighting ASADA on the beaches is even more mystifying.

 

[Firestarter]

Cronulla took their whack and came out premiers shortly after. Something the Bongers wish could happen.

 

[astrovic]

Cronulla took their whack and came out premiers shortly after. Something the Bongers wish could happen.

Don't worry, they got the #1 pick last year, so their premiership glory is assured.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Case in point.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-01-10/james-hird-was-let-down-by-people-he-trusted-says-father

JAMES Hird's major health crisis that saw him taken to hospital came "out of the blue", his father Allan says.

And he said football officials were "thugs" and "bullies" without "a moral compass" for their treatment of his son in the aftermath of Essendon's supplement scandal.

The former Essendon coach was admitted to Cabrini Malvern Hospital last Wednesday.

Allan Hird approached Melbourne radio station 3AW to speak about his son in a recorded interview that was aired on Tuesday morning. He said James Hird was well.

"He's fine. My daughter's been keeping me regularly informed. I'm in Brisbane and I'm coming down shortly to see him.

"I had no inkling. It was just out of the blue, but anyway, that's where it is."

Hird said his son placed too much trust in the people around him during the saga that saw 34 Essendon players suspended by the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

"He put too much trust in the club doing the right thing, he put too much trust in the AFL, he put too much trust in our system of government," Hird said.

"I think if he had his time over again, he would have done it differently."

Hird called for a top-level inquiry to look into the supplements scandal, with the people who handled the matter - including former federal government ministers and AFL and Essendon officials - giving evidence under oath.

He accused administrators of conspiring to make Hird the scapegoat for the ill-fated supplement program, protesting his son's innocence.

"Get them to tell the truth. Get the truth out there and we'll see where it lies," he said.

"A 'conspiracy' is probably the wrong word in a legal sense, but in the general public's eye, I'd say a conspiracy between the Gillard government, the AFL and elements of the Essendon board, plus the Australian Anti-Doping Authority to get a result for something to get everyone out of a hole.

"The Gillard government had got itself into a hole ... overblew that crime commission report enormously and they needed something and they did that for political reasons.

"Both his employers were gunning for him but there was nothing specific he had ever done and there still isn't."

Hird was released from Cabrini on Thursday and is receiving treatment elsewhere.

His wife Tania on Friday issued a brief statement pleading for privacy.

"We wish to express our appreciation for the public support that has been given to James and our family since news of his hospitalisation became known," she said.

"At this time James and the Hird family are in need of privacy. We ask that this privacy be respected.

"We particularly ask this of the media contingent currently gathered at our house.

"James' health is our primary focus and concern."

Two points:

1. Thanks Dad for maintaining the "it was everyone else's fault but James's" line. Good one. I'm sure that helps. Funnily enough, if you step outside that narrative for a moment, this major health crisis doesn't come "out of the blue" at all. Woods for the trees and all that, I guess.

2. Any media contingent gathered anywhere within 10km's of Hird's house should **** right off, immediately. Their door stopping of the *Hird family throughout this saga has been totally wrong.

Third point - while most people are rightly calling for the media to back off, Hird Snr is more interested in another moment in the reflected sun so keeps it on the front page via major radio interview. And he's not the only Hird supporter to do it.

 

[Saintly35]

fighting ASADA on the beaches is even more mystifying.

Considering * and Hird fought everyone everywhere and lost, it wouldn't surprise me that they also took on ASADA in building sandcastles......

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

I wasn't aware of that battle, but considering * and Hird fought everyone everywhere and lost, it wouldn't surprise me that they also as tried to take on ASADA in building sandcastles.

Apparently old man hird is calling for some kind of "enquiry" into ASADA and he want evidence to be given under oath.

Does he not understand that this is a contract issue, not a criminal case. Although, I can't see why it would not be a criminal act for a club or its officials to deceive players by convincing them that the supliments they took were legit when in fact they were not, so maybe in a kind of reverse logic manner, old man hird has a point.

 

[LT Smash]

If I was to give him any advice, I would suggest to him to have a good hard look at the calibre of people that he surrounded himself with during 2013-2016 (starting with his lawyer who ran all those crazy court cases for him, at great expense to *Hird and great financial gain to his law firm, and is still in the media pushing the "*Hird is a victim line) as none of them helped. None. All they did was pump him up, help develop his narrative as the poor poor "victim" heroically martyring himself for a righteous cause and of course, swallow the bullshit he and his media advisor (Hanke) put out as part of the stupid media games *Hird and the AFL played (everyone in the wrong for that crap) and fill his head full of the kind of hero-worhipped self-importance that would appear to have seen *Hird end up where he ended up. Talk about a circle jerk.

Great, thorough post but I believe the highlighted piece is incorrect. The lawyer assumed that *FC's insurance company would foot the bill for the extended court action on behalf of Hird but they refused and their position was upheld in another court when Hird sued them. The lawyer was apparently not the most popular bloke among his partners come Christmas bonus time.

 

[MaddAdam]

Third point - while most people are rightly calling for the media to back off, Hird Snr is more interested in another moment in the reflected sun so keeps it on the front page via major radio interview. And he's not the only Hird supporter to do it.

Hird pere is one messed up individual. My understanding is that he and James aren't on speaking terms but the old man comes out playing the protective Dad who will do anything for his boy a la Bryan and Ben Cousins (and that relationship seems to have deteriorated badly too)

Hird pere is so clearly lacking in even basic self awareness that he can say that he doesn't intend to offer a running commentary on this, but then proceeds to er, do exactly that.

I mean, his son has been hospitalised due to what appears to be a self-harm incident. I fail to see how engaging the national press to "go into bat" for him is helping the matter. James is a 43 year old man with a wife and children. Given the nature of the father/son relationship this latest effort from Hird pere is an excellent illustration of why the two are estranged.

 

[Firestarter]

Hird pere is one messed up individual. My understanding is that he and James aren't on speaking terms but the old man comes out playing the protective Dad who will do anything for his boy a la Bryan and Ben Cousins (and that relationship seems to have deteriorated badly too)

Hird pere is so clearly lacking in even basic self awareness that he can say that he doesn't intend to offer a running commentary on this, but then proceeds to er, do exactly that.

I mean, his son has been hospitalised due to what appears to be a self-harm incident. I fail to see how engaging the national press to "go into bat" for him is helping the matter. James is a 43 year old man with a wife and children. Given the nature of the father/son relationship this latest effort from Hird pere is an excellent illustration of why the two are estranged.

Pere?

 

[Arden]

Apparently old man hird is calling for some kind of "enquiry" into ASADA and he want evidence to be given under oath.

No dramas. Can we also have all the key players including Dank give evidence under oath?

Be careful what you wish for Albert Snr.

 

[see see]

Great, thorough post but I believe the highlighted piece is incorrect. The lawyer assumed that *FC's insurance company would foot the bill for the extended court action on behalf of Hird but they refused and their position was upheld in another court when Hird sued them. The lawyer was apparently not the most popular bloke among his partners come Christmas bonus time.

My mail is that there were definitely no Xmas bonuses at Asshurts this year. In fact, quite the opposite, there's been a not insignificant reduction in headcount.

Seems that the great riches anticipated from their takeover by merger with the Poms have not materialised. Rather than tapping some vast global profit pool, the Australian branch of the firm (which is quite profitable) is subsidising the UK business which has hit hard times.

So sad.

 

[MaddAdam]

Pere?

"Father" en francais.

 

[astrovic]

Great, thorough post but I believe the highlighted piece is incorrect. The lawyer assumed that *FC's insurance company would foot the bill for the extended court action on behalf of Hird but they refused and their position was upheld in another court when Hird sued them. The lawyer was apparently not the most popular bloke among his partners come Christmas bonus time.

Is that right? I had assumed something along those lines, but I heard elsewhere that they got paid so Hird was left holding the can. There you go.

 

[astrovic]

My mail is that there were definitely no Xmas bonuses at Asshurts this year. In fact, quite the opposite, there's been a not insignificant reduction in headcount.

Seems that the great riches anticipated from their takeover by merger with the Poms have not materialised. Rather than tapping some vast global profit pool, the Australian branch of the firm (which is quite profitable) is subsidising the UK business which has hit hard times.

So sad.

That is so sad I'm actually crying.

With laughter.

 

[Wild Bill]

Of course he hired Dank to enhance performance through the use of drugs, I'm sure he was convinced at the time that it was legal. His failing came in trusting Dank's word that it was and not investigating it further himself.

His failing could be that he is just another drug cheat that couldn't cover his tracks and ended up getting caught.

Unless you can read his mind you have no idea if he knew he was doping his players.

We can guess - but that is all it is.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Cheers guys for some of the articles you've showed me giving a different perspective on the CAS verdict. I pride myself on not getting caught up in one point of view and on adjusting my perspective when I become aware of more evidence, so thanks again for showing me another side of the discussion which maybe wasn't as prevalent in the news outlets I generally read, I'll certainly be reading some more and maybe adjusting the level of guilt I attribute to the players, particularly senior figures such as Watson, Fletcher etc.

Sorry, but this is such disingenuous bullshit that I almost vomited in my mouth when I read it.

Selling yourself as the balanced deep thinker who intelligently analyses the facts and then makes a fair-minded interpretation is laughable. Your previous posts were simply a regurgitation of the Donials that have flown around Bigfooty and elsewhere for the best part of 4 years. The only original element of your posts was the (deliberate, I assume) mis-spelling of Thymosin. I'm not going to run all the counter-arguments because they've all been done to death, other than to note that * admitted to using Thymosin, but then tried to pretend it was the "good" one (essentially a flu treatment), and not the PED. To this end, Dank even tried to get the original import documents falsified by the less-than-savoury Alavi, who refused to do it (but also refused to testify, like old mate Charters).

I don't know what your motivation is, but coming this late to the party trying to persuade us that * were hard done by because there is no evidence of their cheating program is offensive. Then pretending that you are being educated here by people posting stuff that has been in the public forum for years is just a pisstake, since you were all over the other (Donial) side of the argument. "Wasn't as prevalent in the news"? Yeah, right. Only the deniers missed it.

...and this right here is the issue I was addressing.

The post you quoted was accurate. Unless you have a highly unorthodox perception of the type of behaviour that good husbands and fathers engage in, you are either denying or ignorant of the facts. Cornesy is just a denier. (PS - look up the term "propaganda" if you ever feel the need to re-run the argument that only the content of an article is relevant, and not the author.)


On topic, like most here I have much sympathy for the Hird children, less for his wife and not that much for James. Hird Snr, Bruce Francis and Amendola can all GAGF.

 

[Saintly35]

Apparently old man hird is calling for some kind of "enquiry" into ASADA and he want evidence to be given under oath.

Does he not understand that this is a contract issue, not a criminal case. Although, I can't see why it would not be a criminal act for a club or its officials to deceive players by convincing them that the supliments they took were legit when in fact they were not, so maybe in a kind of reverse logic manner, old man hird has a point.

Yes I knew that SOS just was playing on Astrovic's typo.

To be honest I am not sure old Hirdy has much of an idea what he is trying to say, rather than just to shift all attention and blame off his son in a scattergun approach, regardless of the facts that have been presented.