Society/Culture Sympathy for taxi industry?

[Gavin Excell]

Licences once were valued at $500k now their value would be far less than the $100k offered by Vic government.

Any sympathy for their position or is it just the result of an industry needing to adapt to a new competing technology?

 

[SwampCreature]

Sympathy for the horse-and-cart industry?

 

[SwampCreature]

Sympathy for the typewriter industry?

 

[SwampCreature]

Sympathy for the cassette industry?

 

[Richard Pryor]

The VHS industry never tried to get DVD's outlawed.

 

[SwampCreature]

Sympathy for the VHS rental industry?

 

[SwampCreature]

Technology changes. All things must end; including industries.

Rich men using their money to prolong the life of their superseded sector isn't new; nor is them doing it to the detriment of consumers. Been happening for centuries.

The one thing they have it common?

They all failed.

The world goes around; around it goes.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Technology changes. All things must end; including industries.

Rich men using their money to prolong the life of their superseded sector isn't new; nor is them doing it to the detriment of consumers. Been happening for centuries.

The one thing they have it common?

They all failed.

The world goes around; around it goes.

True all that. Guess though the difference is that the taxi industry was regulated by government that imposed a monopoly and because of that created an asset that had a particular value

 

[SwampCreature]

All assets come with inherent risks; even those in heavily regulated and monopolised industries.

Nobody who bought a taxi licence thought it would stay the same price; truth is most of them likely saw it as an investment and backed it to go up.

Unfortunately the market sets the value. And currently Taxis ain't' worth real much.

Taxis had problems for a long time they didn't fix because they didn't have too. Now they do. That's how a market works.

Taken a cab recently? Have any of the things that s**t you five years, 10 years or so, about them changed?

My experience is no. Same old shitty cabs.

 

[Lebbo73]

All assets come with inherent risks; even those in heavily regulated and monopolised industries.

Nobody who bought a taxi licence thought it would stay the same price; truth is most of them likely saw it as an investment and backed it to go up.

Unfortunately the market sets the value. And currently Taxis ain't' worth real much.

Taxis had problems for a long time they didn't fix because they didn't have too. Now they do. That's how a market works.

Taken a cab recently? Have any of the things that s**t you five years, 10 years or so, about them changed?

My experience is no. Same old shitty cabs.

I never thought that I'd see the day where we would be in agreement on any issue.

 

[Chief]

Interesting to see that Uber is subsidised by investors at $US 2 billion a year.

When the cabs are gone, Uber will jack up the prices. Then replace their drivers with robots.

 

[skipper kelly]

Interesting to see that Uber is subsidised by investors at $US 2 billion a year.

When the cabs are gone, Uber will jack up the prices. Then replace their drivers with robots.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tech-and-the-fake-market-tactic.1158900/

Interesting read.

 

[Reynolds Number]

Taxis will stay they will just have to change a few things.

The days of government owned taxi companies having a monopoly on the market are going going.

 

[Power Raid]

Shame on govt for selling taxi plates or more accurately allowing taxi plates to be leased or on sold.

 

[kickazz]

It's a numbers game. Have enough people with skin in the scam and there will be wider spread sympathy.

The taxi licence rort was good whilst there were stupid laws. Same goes with property speculation, but with more involved in that one, there will be a louder outcry when it goes to s**t.

 

[pugsville]

They Government profited from auctioning taxi licenses till very recently, many owner drivers took loans to buy licences, to have the Government radically change the rules of the game, to make these peoples investments worthless makes the losses these people suffer directly the result of government action. The Government selling an license taking the money and shortly afterwards around and just allowing anybody who wants to operate without a licence, is an injustice, and the owner drivers whose borrowed money to buy a license are looking at complete finical ruin.

I have no sympathy for the fat cats who made plenty of the years as absentee landlords, but the owner drivers were hard working folks who invested in their business. They deserve a much better deal than they are being offered.

There are large problems with the Taxi industry, I served my time and it would be a very cold day in hell before I would drive a cab again. Nothing Uber is doing is going to solve the problem. In Uber will make things worse for the txt industry (including Uber) in the long run. Very single change I can think of in the Taxi industry has had a bad effect. The GST drove out most of the good drivers ,as when it was effectively cash in hand it was a reasonable wage, once the GST and paying tax started it was not.

Uber in no way are any advance , or some sort of technological progress. They are a dispatch company and as such a very expensive dispatch company. Uber is benefiting from a honeymoon and cherry picking, if taxis were totally removed and Uber has to service the total demand all the same problems would still exist.

If people want a good taxi service they have to prepared to pay for it. It's that simple unless there is a decent career path for the drivers the service will always be crap. Hey would anyone stick it out in such a low paid profession, and Uber the money's much the same. There is some flexibility in that you don't need the license but there is no certainly , investing in car under Uber is a total risk.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Issue with cabs is the move from owner drivers to the big corps

New drivers are paid jack s**t, so no shock they dont care about the passengers, the state of the car, or the quality of the drive.

Add to that the contempt for short ride fares. I know plenty who have been abused by drivers for wanting only a $10 trip. Average uber journey is $6-8.

Yellow cabs, silver top, and black cabs brought this upon themselves. You cannot treat your customers like s**t and charge them through the nose, and then act shocked that they want other options

 

[DemonTim]

They Government profited from auctioning taxi licenses till very recently, many owner drivers took loans to buy licences, to have the Government radically change the rules of the game, to make these peoples investments worthless makes the losses these people suffer directly the result of government action. The Government selling an license taking the money and shortly afterwards around and just allowing anybody who wants to operate without a licence, is an injustice, and the owner drivers whose borrowed money to buy a license are looking at complete finical ruin.

I have no sympathy for the fat cats who made plenty of the years as absentee landlords, but the owner drivers were hard working folks who invested in their business. They deserve a much better deal than they are being offered.

There are large problems with the Taxi industry, I served my time and it would be a very cold day in hell before I would drive a cab again. Nothing Uber is doing is going to solve the problem. In Uber will make things worse for the txt industry (including Uber) in the long run. Very single change I can think of in the Taxi industry has had a bad effect. The GST drove out most of the good drivers ,as when it was effectively cash in hand it was a reasonable wage, once the GST and paying tax started it was not.

Uber in no way are any advance , or some sort of technological progress. They are a dispatch company and as such a very expensive dispatch company. Uber is benefiting from a honeymoon and cherry picking, if taxis were totally removed and Uber has to service the total demand all the same problems would still exist.

If people want a good taxi service they have to prepared to pay for it. It's that simple unless there is a decent career path for the drivers the service will always be crap. Hey would anyone stick it out in such a low paid profession, and Uber the money's much the same. There is some flexibility in that you don't need the license but there is no certainly , investing in car under Uber is a total risk.

People were paying ridiculous rates for cabs, for poor service. So you want people to pay even worse rates to increase service?

 

[pugsville]

People were paying ridiculous rates for cabs, for poor service. So you want people to pay even worse rates to increase service?

The Job is so badly paid that only those with little other choice will do it, and most will get out before they actually learn the city,

The Owners drivers going hard for compensation are generally the best of the industry with the cleanest cars, the best knowledge of town.

A lt of the complaints about taxi drivers are unreasonable. ?I heard many over the years, and most of them are totally unjustified. My taxi usage is random street hails (I almost never ring) and the drivers know where they are going, the cars are clean, the service good. In general.

Drivers are not paid. They get 50% and thus driver for an owner driver or big depot often makes almost no difference, a good owner with a lot of private clients will be better on days or quite nights, but actually a drawback. new drivers struggle because they just don't know how to find the work.

there has been a decline in driver quality it;s been long term and it's basically economic. There's also been a long term decline of the taxi dispatch networks, and the habits of customers which have helped to degrade the system. Smart drivers almost never accept silver top or dispatch network calls, when it's busy,. on a busy night half the customers or more will not be there when you get there, it's simply too much of a time waster,

taxi fares are too cheap. it's simple economics the drivers cant make enough money. for decent living wage. Uber changes nothing as the economics are much the same , it's no better for the drivers. The Idea that taxi users are over paying for the service is just laughable. Ho e much per hour would you work for. Shiftwork, It's bad for your long term health, hardly stress free or without safety concerns.

Short fares i never understood myself as they generally a good earner, flagfall is the fastest money as long as it's done quickly, short fares often have much better chance of leading to an immediate next fare, long fares are not that great on a busy night.

 

[Noidenous]

http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/history-repeating-itself

 

[DemonTim]

The Job is so badly paid that only those with little other choice will do it, and most will get out before they actually learn the city,

The Owners drivers going hard for compensation are generally the best of the industry with the cleanest cars, the best knowledge of town.

A lt of the complaints about taxi drivers are unreasonable. ?I heard many over the years, and most of them are totally unjustified. My taxi usage is random street hails (I almost never ring) and the drivers know where they are going, the cars are clean, the service good. In general.

Drivers are not paid. They get 50% and thus driver for an owner driver or big depot often makes almost no difference, a good owner with a lot of private clients will be better on days or quite nights, but actually a drawback. new drivers struggle because they just don't know how to find the work.

there has been a decline in driver quality it;s been long term and it's basically economic. There's also been a long term decline of the taxi dispatch networks, and the habits of customers which have helped to degrade the system. Smart drivers almost never accept silver top or dispatch network calls, when it's busy,. on a busy night half the customers or more will not be there when you get there, it's simply too much of a time waster,

taxi fares are too cheap. it's simple economics the drivers cant make enough money. for decent living wage. Uber changes nothing as the economics are much the same , it's no better for the drivers. The Idea that taxi users are over paying for the service is just laughable. Ho e much per hour would you work for. Shiftwork, It's bad for your long term health, hardly stress free or without safety concerns.

Short fares i never understood myself as they generally a good earner, flagfall is the fastest money as long as it's done quickly, short fares often have much better chance of leading to an immediate next fare, long fares are not that great on a busy night.

You can't acknowledge that people have complaints about service providers, then say taxis are too cheap.

Lets see if my complaints are valid:
- Booked taxi 2 days in advance for a birthday dinner, travelling a short fare from my house to the nearest station (costs around $12.00 for a 5 minute trip). Taxi did not show by booking time, so I called, took 15 minutes of ringing over and over (either disconnected or engaged) they said next available would be sent. Half an hour later I call again, told same thing. An hour later, still no taxi, managed to organise another ride and cancelled the cab. 30 minutes later when my other ride arrived, a taxi pulled into my drive way, and the driver abused me (despite me cancelling) for wasting his time
- My sister is legally not allowed to drive, and attempts to take taxis to medical appointments. Most of the short fares to her doctor and specialist take 3-4 calls before one actually turns up (despite booking in advance)
- The fare from my house to Richmond is $80 in now surcharge times. Me and my partner organised a cab from the eastern suburbs to Richmond. The driver exited the eastern freeway at chandler highway, and said that is the quickest route to swan street bridge. We told him hoddle is much quicker (was no football/rugby on that night, so hoddle wouldn't have been overly crowded). He proceeded to drive through yarra bend, to the top end of richmond, then random back streets until he found a dead end just before swan street. We had to get out there and walk the rest.
- My mother works in disability care, a client of hers got a taxi to her specialist appointment at the austin hospital (cabcharge from TAC). Upon dropping them off my mother asked for help getting her wheelchair out of the boot, the cabbie got out, lit a smoke and stood and watched her do it alone while trying to ensure her client was okay. After finally getting the wheelchair out and her client in it, the cabbie left. Without saying a word. 10 minutes later my mum realised that her car/house keys had fallen out while she was trying to get the wheelchair out. She called the cab company, who put her in touch with the driver. He took 6 hours to respond to around 10 missed calls and texts (they had gotten another cab back home by this point). His response was "i've finished work now and am going home. I don't have time to give you your keys, I will drop them off tomorrow night" (24 hours later). She called him and said she needs her car to get home and get to work tomorrow and that wouldn't work. After about 10-15 phone calls, he finally agreed to allow her to get a cab to his house ($140 fare round trip) to pick them up herself. Upon arrival he wouldn't answer his phone, and they didn't have his unit number. The driver they were with got in touch with dispatch and got his address and went and knocked on his door, he finally came out, got the keys out of the boot, and threw them at my mother without saying a word. Even their new cab driver said the guys behaviour was a disgrace.
- My partner isn't good with directions, and her and her friends got a cab from Seville to the city for their graduation break up drinks. 4 girls in their early 20s, he took them from seville to croydon from croydon up through park orchards, through to tempelstowe, then through the northern suburbs to get to the CBD. The girls asked if the freeway was cheaper and he said "no it's too busy on fridays, will take too long". The fare cost them $160 (they got it refunded by 13 cabs after filing a complaint)
- The last cab I took had vomit covering half the back seat, so my partner had to basically sit on my lap. The driver told us "sorry i haven't had time to clean it yet"

You don't get to charge what you deem "fair" until you provide adequate service, that is with every industry. I'm self employed (as a second job) if I behaved like the above I wouldn't be able to charge people at all, would it then be fair for me to whinge and say "oh my business service is s**t because i'm not paid enough!"

 

[pugsville]

You can't acknowledge that people have complaints about service providers, then say taxis are too cheap.

You don't get to charge what you deem "fair" until you provide adequate service, that is with every industry. I'm self employed (as a second job) if I behaved like the above I wouldn't be able to charge people at all, would it then be fair for me to whinge and say "oh my business service is s**t because i'm not paid enough!"

One of the Fundamental causes of the bad service is poor earnings. It's lower than minimum wage.

the service will never improve while wages are just so low. How many taxi trips was that? how many trips when the driver did the job. While Driver earnings remain where they are only those desperate will drive taxis, your selecting into the workforce that has no other options, and unless the taxi owners/depots take all comers they wont get the cars on the road. when you are offering less than the minimum wage you cant select for quality. The good drivers will have skills/attitudes that make them more employable and will get out of the industry when they can.

People who use taxis regular should get their own driver. When I was driving last almost all of my work was for the regular customers. That service (which you cant charge more for) is generally pretty darn good. Though we were very reluctant to hand the business card out , we had a good customer base.

The Peak demand for Taxis has risen, such that at peak times there are excessive delays in taxis arriving. It has created a feedback to lower service, longer wait times has lead to many passengers not waiting for their taxi, but either calling multiple taxi companies, or seeking alternative transport, people with mobiles calling taxis and then taking a passing taxi , these behaviours increase waiting times and when taxis turn up and no on his their wasting the drivers time and reducing his earnings, the driver learns and to increase his personal will not accept radio booking during busy times, increasing the wight times and lowering the chance that passengers will be there for a radio job. On a Saturday night after 10pm own the outer suburbs less than 50% of the passengers are there when you arrive. Taking radio jobs in that situation decreases driver earnings and good drivers just don't.

Uber will not solve any of these problems. Uber is cherrypicking and having a honeymoon period. The Uber system could not meet the base demand and as their service expands, their service quality will drop.

Ask yourself why are Black cabs good in london.

 

[DemonTim]

One of the Fundamental causes of the bad service is poor earnings. It's lower than minimum wage.

the service will never improve while wages are just so low. How many taxi trips was that? how many trips when the driver did the job. While Driver earnings remain where they are only those desperate will drive taxis, your selecting into the workforce that has no other options, and unless the taxi owners/depots take all comers they wont get the cars on the road. when you are offering less than the minimum wage you cant select for quality. The good drivers will have skills/attitudes that make them more employable and will get out of the industry when they can.

People who use taxis regular should get their own driver. When I was driving last almost all of my work was for the regular customers. That service (which you cant charge more for) is generally pretty darn good. Though we were very reluctant to hand the business card out , we had a good customer base.

The Peak demand for Taxis has risen, such that at peak times there are excessive delays in taxis arriving. It has created a feedback to lower service, longer wait times has lead to many passengers not waiting for their taxi, but either calling multiple taxi companies, or seeking alternative transport, people with mobiles calling taxis and then taking a passing taxi , these behaviours increase waiting times and when taxis turn up and no on his their wasting the drivers time and reducing his earnings, the driver learns and to increase his personal will not accept radio booking during busy times, increasing the wight times and lowering the chance that passengers will be there for a radio job. On a Saturday night after 10pm own the outer suburbs less than 50% of the passengers are there when you arrive. Taking radio jobs in that situation decreases driver earnings and good drivers just don't.

Uber will not solve any of these problems. Uber is cherrypicking and having a honeymoon period. The Uber system could not meet the base demand and as their service expands, their service quality will drop.

Ask yourself why are Black cabs good in london.

So your logic is charge a premium then improve the service, not vice versa. That is just poor business, and will result (and has resulted) in people turning away from the service

You cannot increase your cost and justify it as "unless we charge you more, we can't fix your complaints"

I used to take cabs almost every weekend from 18-26, I would say there was at least a minor complaint 60-70% of my rides.

It's pretty clear you're coming at it from a defensive stand point because you were a driver, you seem to want to blame others for the issues caused by your own industry.

You also seem to suggest that good drivers don't take fares to outer suburbs, so what? being from an outer suburb I just have to put up with that? You're now saying my poor service is justified by my location to the CBD? I should pay $80 in non surcharge and $100+ in surcharge times and just put up with bad service because I don't live in the city?

The peak demand for taxis has now dropped, because of competition.

Uber seems to be doing reasonably in areas that it has been for longer than aus, who is suggesting that Uber take all of the market? Uber now has competition, it will never be required to take the entire market, and noone is suggesting it. That's just a deflection.

Black cabs were garbage, rarely used them when in london. Manchester had the best cabs i've ever had, and guess what, ridiculously cheap, and had a set fare based on distance that was in every cab, that you could check prior to departure.

You basically want to blame the consumer for taxis s**t service, not how business works. Next time maccas gets a complaint I doubt they'll come out and say "we hire young staff and so we can pay less, that's why our service was bad. Really it's your fault for not paying us more for our product". Fix your damn service THEN you can demand a higher charge from the consumer, that is how business works.

 

[pugsville]

So your logic is charge a premium then improve the service, not vice versa. That is just poor business, and will result (and has resulted) in people turning away from the service

It's not a premium it's just a decent wage. People are turning away from the service to another tax service were all the same factors are at work. It will not improve things.

Paying below minimum wage and expecting high standards is not sane thinking. Owners and depots are desperate for drivers and will take anyone. Unless there is a demand to drive taxis because reasonable money can be earning there can be no selection at all about who drives the taxis.

Many of the complaints made to me personally while driving were just wrong. People often complain about been taken the 'long' way and I mean often, not once was there any valid compliant. In many cases it's just people seeing what they expect to see.

The Taxi peak demand has not decreased. When it is busy there are far more people wanting taxis than taxis. And the situations NOT solvable by taxis. Friday and Saturday night the demand is heavy the rest of the time there are too many taxis. The Solution is mass transit.

I was explaining why the outer suburbs calling a taxi often doesn't work. I wasn't blaming anyone so much as explaining why things are so bad.[/QUOTE]

 

[DemonTim]

It's not a premium it's just a decent wage. People are turning away from the service to another tax service were all the same factors are at work. It will not improve things.

Paying below minimum wage and expecting high standards is not sane thinking. Owners and depots are desperate for drivers and will take anyone. Unless there is a demand to drive taxis because reasonable money can be earning there can be no selection at all about who drives the taxis.

Many of the complaints made to me personally while driving were just wrong. People often complain about been taken the 'long' way and I mean often, not once was there any valid compliant. In many cases it's just people seeing what they expect to see.

The Taxi peak demand has not decreased. When it is busy there are far more people wanting taxis than taxis. And the situations NOT solvable by taxis. Friday and Saturday night the demand is heavy the rest of the time there are too many taxis. The Solution is mass transit.

I was explaining why the outer suburbs calling a taxi often doesn't work. I wasn't blaming anyone so much as explaining why things are so bad.

[/QUOTE]
People already complain that it costs too much, adding cost to that is a premium, especially when cheaper services exist.

It sounds like all your complaints are with the taxi industry, and instead of complaining about how it's run you just ask for more from your customers, who will not pay more for such rubbish service.

Well that's the industries fault isn't it. How is it an hour drive can cost me up to $120, yet that doesn't cover a decent wage? My partner earned $21 for an hour in retail, if $120 can't return at least $21 for the driver then that is a failure of the industry and the regulation, not of the cost of what the consumer pays. The job isn't attractive because of how the industry is run, and the industry has been run as a monopoly because it lacked competition, now competition arrives, and the drivers blame the competition and the consumer, when they should be looking inwardly.

I've been taken the long way, or attempted to, multiple times. Unless you can rebut their claims directly to them it's pointless with evidence, you just saying "you're wrong" provides further poor service, and makes the service look much worse.

The taxi demand has decreased due to competition, that's just logic. Or are the people taking uber new customers that never took taxis previously?

You said good drivers don't take fares there, that's a pretty explicit blame on anyone who lives there.

If Gill came out and said "Hey guys, we can't improve umpiring unless we make them full time, and to do that we need more money, so we are increasing all tickets by $5 to cover this", would you be happy to pay it? Do you think the majority of the public would be happy to wear the cost?