T-Bird

[The_Wookie]

Hes certainly not a spud, and is a great plan b whether back or forward. I dont see him as plan a if plan a is available (ie. Waite, Walker, Henderson, Jamison)

 

[Malifice]

Experienced, good hands, fair kick, reads play well, plays within limitations. Can go back or forward.

BUT

Does not apply defensive pressure as a forward and no good one on one on big forwards. Is slow. Decision making iffy. Doesn't kick enough goals.

Agree with this aside from the bolded. Has kicked more than enough when played forward.

There is a bit of Pearce/ Spalding about him when he plays up forward. Takes some decent grabs, kicks a few goals.

And he is a fantastic third/ loose man in defence due to his reading of the play and great marking.

Straightened us up considerably in the EF last year vs the Bombers.

Just looked really hungry after a decade of some lean years.

I have him in our best 22 in a Hunter (WCE) role.

No star, has strengths and weaknesses, and a handy player.

 

[Malifice]

That final against Essendon last year was the best exhibition of contested pack and one-on-one marking I've seen from a Carlton forward for a long time... happy to have he and Waite forward with the resting ruckman as he adds that extra tall marking dimension the opposition have to look after. Nice to have another gun KP forward but we don't so Thornton fills the bill ok for now.

This. ^^^

 

[thylacine60]

He marks as well as Fisher did and his kicking for goal is 1000 times better.

 

[Muji]

New nickname at the club exclusive from Jamo's podcast.

'Breath' Thornton.

lols were had.

 

[Claypigeon]

He marks as well as Fisher did and his kicking for goal is 1000 times better.

Maybe he just needs to grow a beard then?

 

[Malifice]

Maybe he just needs to grow a beard then?

Starchamber approves of this post.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Hes certainly not a spud, and is a great plan b whether back or forward. I dont see him as plan a if plan a is available (ie. Waite, Walker, Henderson, Jamison)

If the above are available (ie plan a), I think he is perfect for team structure. He comes in as a third defender or forward and if either side of the ground isn't firing, he can swing over. He obviously prefers the forward line and given the little time he's been put in that position I wouldn't be surprised if his goal kicking efficiency outperforms Waite and Walker, and certainly Hammer. Better at making a mark stick than Hammer too. Hammer is improving his stats this year though. A bit of laser eye surgery goes a long way.

 

[Big Red is back]

Solid player with great hands will continue to fight for a spot as he is probably our 20th to 24 th best player.

Major issue is in defense as 3rd tall he simply doesn't provide enough run nor does he play a maxwell type third man up role well enough.

As such he is really a third fwd tall which is never an easy gig.

 

[The_Wookie]

If the above are available (ie plan a), I think he is perfect for team structure. He comes in as a third defender or forward and if either side of the ground isn't firing, he can swing over. He obviously prefers the forward line and given the little time he's been put in that position I wouldn't be surprised if his goal kicking efficiency outperforms Waite and Walker, and certainly Hammer. Better at making a mark stick than Hammer too. Hammer is improving his stats this year though. A bit of laser eye surgery goes a long way.

This year hammer is the king of our goal kicking efficiency - 11.1 for the season, has kicked a goal in all 6 matches to boot. in addition only eddie betts has scored more goals for the blues this year. Hammer has 24 marks from 6 games at an average of 4. Hes also average more than 20 hitouts a game.

Thornton has kicked 4.4 from his 4 games this year. (About the same accuracy as Kade Simpson) He scored nothing against Brisbane or Fremantle and kicked 1.3 against Richmond (and that goal was gifted to him by Hammer in the square from a very good hammer mark). He has 8 marks from 4 games at an average of 2. He has started forward in all 4 of his matches this season.

As for the rest, Eddie, Walker , Waite and Garlett are all more accurate this season. And not a hell of a lot different over all.

Name 2012 (career up to end of 2011)

Eddie Betts 14.11 (215.115)
Shaun Hampson 11.1 (14.17)
Jarrad Waite 10.7 (169.115)
Jeffrey Garlett 10.7 (99.62)
Kade Simpson 6.7 (96.94)
Marc Murphy 6.4 (104.73)
Mitch Robinson 5.6 (29.3)
Kane Lucas 5.4 (5.4)
Chris Judd 5.2 (193.155)
Bret Thornton 4.4 (21.12)
Andrew Walker 4.2 (93.54)
Matthew Kreuzer 2.2 (38.23)

 

[blue healer]

Solid player with great hands will continue to fight for a spot as he is probably our 20th to 24 th best player.

Major issue is in defense as 3rd tall he simply doesn't provide enough run nor does he play a maxwell type third man up role well enough.

As such he is really a third fwd tall which is never an easy gig.

Probably agree that he is in that 20th-24th bracket but if Bower is also in that bracket IMO Thornton should get the nod every time if it comes to down to those two. He is simply more versatile and poised.

With Laidler out I think they're probably both in the top 22 with Bower taking his spot and Thornton up forward.

I also think his best value to us ATM is the third tall in the forward line. I have thought for some time that we need a third tall to take the taller player (eg. Harry O'Brien) off Betts.

I think a forward line with the speed of Betts, Garlett and Walker in combination with 3 talls like Hampson, Waite and Thornton is comparable to WC in match up difficulty and if, as I do, you rate our smaller guys better than theirs we are well benchmarked against the current comp leaders.

 

[CarltonKid07]

When T-Bird is in form he is an absolutely crucial part of this team. However, when he is not having a good day he has the tendency to bring the morale of the entire team down by his verbal diarrhea directed at teammates often when it is his responsibility. There was a game, it may have been two years ago, when we lost to North Melbourne and of all people he was lambasting Kade Simpson for something that was his own fault, an inability to pick up one of North's power forwards. Thankfully, it's something that he is gaining more control over but it almost cost him his career. I'd put this side of his game down to being the one top player in an excruciatingly poor backline for many years.

Fremantle game at the Dome? Sandilands Mark. The Game Kruezer got injured and Thornton played ruck.

 

[CarltonKid07]

T-Bird is easily ahead of Bower, he offers a shit load more

 

[JuddFevGoal]

T-Bird is easily ahead of Bower, he offers a shit load more

Yet it appears Bower is selected ahead of T-Bird again tonight. Is that correct?

 

[JuddFevGoal]

This year hammer is the king of our goal kicking efficiency - 11.1 for the season, has kicked a goal in all 6 matches to boot. in addition only eddie betts has scored more goals for the blues this year. Hammer has 24 marks from 6 games at an average of 4. Hes also average more than 20 hitouts a game.

Thornton has kicked 4.4 from his 4 games this year. (About the same accuracy as Kade Simpson) He scored nothing against Brisbane or Fremantle and kicked 1.3 against Richmond (and that goal was gifted to him by Hammer in the square from a very good hammer mark). He has 8 marks from 4 games at an average of 2. He has started forward in all 4 of his matches this season.

As for the rest, Eddie, Walker , Waite and Garlett are all more accurate this season. And not a hell of a lot different over all.

Name 2012 (career up to end of 2011) (*** added percentage for career up until end of 2011)

Eddie Betts 14.11 (215.115) 65%
Shaun Hampson 11.1 (14.17) 45%
Jarrad Waite 10.7 (169.115) 60%
Jeffrey Garlett 10.7 (99.62) 61%
Kade Simpson 6.7 (96.94) 51%
Marc Murphy 6.4 (104.73) 59%
Mitch Robinson 5.6 (29.3) 91%
Kane Lucas 5.4 (5.4) 56%
Chris Judd 5.2 (193.155) 55%
Bret Thornton 4.4 (21.12) 63%
Andrew Walker 4.2 (93.54) 63%
Matthew Kreuzer 2.2 (38.23) 62%

Hi Wookie,

Interesting figures. On career up to end of 2011, the only players with efficiency in front of goals higher than T-Bird are Eddie Betts and Mitch Robinson (who has an extraordinary 91% efficiency). See added percentages above.

Most of T-Bird's behinds from this year also come from the first game 1.3 against Richmond and in an interview after the game, Jamo expressed surprise saying 'He doesn't miss often'. Since then with limited game time, he's kicked 3.1.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Once again, the dropping of T-Bird in favour of players like Bower, Russell and even possibly Duigan last night was in my eyes, a bewildering move.

As demonstrated in Wookie's figures above, till the end of 2011 for career, his goal efficiency was in the top 3.

His desperation to win and courage tellingly displayed in our final against West Coast last year, was sadly lacking for leadership last night against the Saints.

When clearly we had no options to shake up a struggling defence and an equally stifled forward line, please explain to me WHY we dropped Thornton?

In the absence of Carrots and Laidler, it seemed to me Ratten had no cards to play last night. So why persist with iff-y players in average form giving 60%?

Unless, there's something we don't know about (injury etc), I just don't get it.

 

[rolemodel133]

t'bird is past it,he played last week an did nothing... bower is ahead of him,ratten can see that.let t-bird play out the year in the res...

you can't blame bower when the ball is getting laced out to the fowards,wouldn't of matted who played down back last night...

 

[JuddFevGoal]

t'bird is past it,he played last week an did nothing...

GOALS
Carlton: Hampson 3, Thornton 3, Lucas 2, Simpson 2, Walker 2, Bower, Robinson, Garlett
Greater Western Sydney: Davis 2, O'hAilpin 2, Scully, Sumner

BEST
Carlton: Robinson, Murphy, Simpson, Scotland, Thornton, Walker
Greater Western Sydney: Greene, Coniglio, McDonald, Shiel, Adams, Smith

 

[rolemodel133]

so? he is to slow, yes he has served the team great in a time of need but bower is better speed wise,one on one, kicking well about even,,...

 

[JuddFevGoal]

so? he is to slow, yes he has served the team great in a time of need but bower is better speed wise,one on one, kicking well about even,,...

The hour of need was the last final of last year. And now he's suddenly past it? Five games later with no injury, coming off a game where he kicked equal top number of goals and listed in top 6? In a game where you bizarrely claim he 'did nothin'.

I think you should re-evaluate your illogical bias, which seems to be common here about this particular player - some kind of sheep mentality.

The courage he showed in our final out west would've been a lesson for every player out on that field last night.

 

[rolemodel133]

watie came back in, can't afford to play them both up foward againts a quick moving ball team.. that's how i'm guessingratten sees it to...

who cares about last year? watie was 50% fit, t'bird is to slow to play on staints little men an plays to much like watie,
this week who would he play on? dangerfield,

 

[JuddFevGoal]

I just think dropping a guy who kicked 3 the week before and was in best 6 in favour of leaving in Bower, Russell, Duigan etc is such a weird message.

Out of interest, who do you think is a better mark out of Bower and T-Bird, or a better kick on goal?

 

[The Edukator]

so? he is to slow, yes he has served the team great in a time of need but bower is better speed wise,one on one, kicking well about even,,...

What is the point of a speedy player that continuously turns the ball and allows the opposing team the opportunity to score by gaining possession?

Its much more beneficial to gave a slower player that retains the ball and thus completely restricts the opposition any opportunities to score!

Bower is a spud

 

[rolemodel133]

better kick at goal? depends bower can kick 50 plus, t'bird not so much.. about even imo, but we are tlaking about them kicking goals for us to win then we are in big trouble

 

[JuddFevGoal]

better kick at goal? depends bower can kick 50 plus, t'bird not so much.. about even imo, but we are tlaking about them kicking goals for us to win then we are in big trouble

You seem to have forgotten the part of the question about who is the better mark...