T-Bird

[JuddFevGoal]

I think it's time once again to open up the discussion on T-Bird.

I rate him. In fact I rate him big-time. And perhaps this is partly because of how overlooked he is by supporters and possibly by the MC.

He has an excellent pair of hands, and as we all know he is a very good kick for goal. Anyone got stats on his accuracy?

For the life of me I don't know why we would go for Bower instead of T-Bird in crucial games (no offence to Bower, he was good yesterday), but the versatility offered by Thornton is rare, and incredibly useful when you need to counter an opposition with a run on. I really think he was missed as a means of stopping the rot during the Essendon match for example.

Most tellingly for me, was the way he played out of his skin in last years final v West Coast. He nearly brought us back from the dead, and he was injured too.

I hope he continues to hold his place into this season.

Thoughts?

 

[WALKERTOBETTS]

I think it's time once again to open up the discussion on T-Bird.

I rate him. In fact I rate him big-time. And perhaps this is partly because of how overlooked he is by supporters and possibly by the MC.

He has an excellent pair of hands, and as we all know he is a very good kick for goal. Anyone got stats on his accuracy?

For the life of me I don't know why we would go for Bower instead of T-Bird in crucial games (no offence to Bower, he was good yesterday), but the versatility offered by Thornton is rare, and incredibly useful when you need to counter an opposition with a run on. I really think he was missed as a means of stopping the rot during the Essendon match for example.

Most tellingly for me, was the way he played out of his skin in last years final v West Coast. He nearly brought us back from the dead, and he was injured too.

I hope he continues to hold his place into this season.

Thoughts?

yeh totally agree, i'm a fan his got great dukes and can get in the right positions early. A 's up for me

 

[Wickzki]

When T-Bird is in form he is an absolutely crucial part of this team. However, when he is not having a good day he has the tendency to bring the morale of the entire team down by his verbal diarrhea directed at teammates often when it is his responsibility. There was a game, it may have been two years ago, when we lost to North Melbourne and of all people he was lambasting Kade Simpson for something that was his own fault, an inability to pick up one of North's power forwards. Thankfully, it's something that he is gaining more control over but it almost cost him his career. I'd put this side of his game down to being the one top player in an excruciatingly poor backline for many years.

 

[Kramer1]

Personally I think his role in the ream requires more scrutiny (and this is coming from a long time supporter) -

Up forward he plays an easy role. If he get's on the end of a few as he did yesterday he is lauded, if he doesn't so be it. Along with Waite he is probably the best one grab mark in the team, but is this enough?

Provides bugger all defensive pressure up forward (hasn't laid a tackle in two weeks), and has been credited with one goal assist in his four games this year. Whilst he is not in the team to kick big bags it is also worth noting that he has only kicked multiple goals against GC last year, the landslide against Essendon in the finals and GWS yesterday...hardly pressure cooker stuff. With Walker back in the team and Hampson providing an option I am not sure he's needed up forward.

Yes he's an option to throw down back if plan A, B, C, and D have gone to shit, but again I don't know if this is enough to ensure a game.

15 games to get to 200. He deserves to make it, but I would like to think that someone takes hold of his spot in the not too distant future.

 

[Big Sim]

Experienced, good hands, fair kick, reads play well, plays within limitations. Can go back or forward.

BUT

Does not apply defensive pressure as a forward and no good one on one on big forwards. Is slow. Decision making iffy. Doesn't kick enough goals.

A very handy fringe/depth player. Not in our best 22 but will play plenty of games anway and play his role well enough.

 

[Buddy33]

i rate him very highly as a forward
best part is, other teams dont
meaning he gets there 3rd tall defender, making his impact higher

i have been a fan of his from the get go, cannot understand why there are still haters here. he defends he slows down the play, maybe this is a good thing, i reckon he has a pretty cool head in situations
and without a doubt in my mind, if he was in the entire final last year against the eagles, we would have won.

 

[The Edukator]

When T-Bird is in form he is an absolutely crucial part of this team. However, when he is not having a good day he has the tendency to bring the morale of the entire team down by his verbal diarrhea directed at teammates often when it is his responsibility. There was a game, it may have been two years ago, when we lost to North Melbourne and of all people he was lambasting Kade Simpson for something that was his own fault, an inability to pick up one of North's power forwards. Thankfully, it's something that he is gaining more control over but it almost cost him his career. I'd put this side of his game down to being the one top player in an excruciatingly poor backline for many years.

This opinion is just too dated. he has matured and know what he needs to do to stay in the team and he knows what is expected of him. i dont think i have seen him unfairly criticise any player in recent times.

He is an integral part of the team. He not only provides more versatility than Bower but is also a better defender.

Yes bower provides mroe run but we have that covered. what really stood out for me yesterday in the bower thornton comparison was bowers goal.

Yeah it was a good goal but it annoyed me. he took the mark and didn't even look around to see if he was safe from being tackled he just played on straight away. its this type of recklessness that often gets him in trouble and i think its a liability.

Kudos to him for actually pulling it off yesterday though.

also im sick of people saying he is too slow. often he is simply assessing the situation and playing it safe whichis fine by me, it means he will turn the ball over LESS unlike some others players...
I would much rather kick the ball back and sideways to create a 'switch' than blindly blast it to a contest we are likely to lose.

the opponent cannot score if they dont have possession of the ball.

T-Bird in the team and to stay in the team thanks

 

[TerryWallet]

I refer to Thornton as an "Only in an Emergency" player.

He has been damn lucky that injury and circumstances with other players have continually didtated that he gets a game. He played a good final in Perth last year. That's the best i can say about him.

I'd like to know what Thornton thinks gives him the right to never break out of a jog and just ponce around. Someone should show him a few tapes of Jack Darling.

He is one of those players like Kosi who keeps getting a game and keeps underperforming until he eventually does something a bit decent and a few people go "See, he's not that bad".

He shouldn't be in our team, but because of a few circumstances he keeps holding on.

 

[Kramer1]

Yeah it was a good goal but it annoyed me. he took the mark and didn't even look around to see if he was safe from being tackled he just played on straight away. its this type of recklessness that often gets him in trouble and i think its a liability.

Kudos to him for actually pulling it off yesterday though.

Hampson a twat for celebrating goals...now Bower's awesome running goal when we desperately needed such a statement was annoying.

Chance we might be becoming a spot fickle as a supporter group.

 

[zeeCFC]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

 

[dumb]

still a bit of a question mark over his performance against better sides. we played anyone other than GWS we might not be reading this thread.
definitely a useful long bomb option and the versatility is handy. a bit part player at this stage but that's ok, you can't have stars everywhere.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

still a bit of a question mark over his performance against better sides. we played anyone other than GWS we might not be reading this thread.
definitely a useful long bomb option and the versatility is handy. a bit part player at this stage but that's ok, you can't have stars everywhere.

A home final against West Coast wasn't a tough enough test for you?

 

[dumb]

A home final against West Coast wasn't a tough enough test for you?

no, i remember that and his game against essendon the week before.

i said he was 'merely' useful, not that he was shit.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

no, i remember that and his game against essendon the week before.

i said he was 'merely' useful, not that he was shit.

And all I was saying was that games like the home WC final, go a long way to removing the 'question mark over his performance against better sides'.

 

[TerryWallet]

And all I was saying was that games like the home WC final, go a long way to removing the 'question mark over his performance against better sides'.

Shane Ellen kicked 5 goals in a Grand Final.

He was still a shite player overall though.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Shane Ellen kicked 5 goals in a Grand Final.

He was still a shite player overall though.

I was afraid this thread might head in this direction.

I'm not suggesting that Thorton is Judd or Murphy or even Kruezer.

I'm merely saying that he is certainly, without a doubt not a 'shite player overall'.

I think his versatility both as a strong defender (not full back) and forward, and his composure, which has grown over time, make him a definite starter with our current squad, ahead of players like Bower. I would probably also prefer him in ahead of Duigan.

And don't misconstrue this - I like both those players, particularly Duig's when he's on song, I just think T-Bird is more versatile, a better mark, more endeavor and more skill.

 

[Blue since 72]

Personally I think his role in the ream requires more scrutiny (and this is coming from a long time supporter) -

Up forward he plays an easy role. If he get's on the end of a few as he did yesterday he is lauded, if he doesn't so be it. Along with Waite he is probably the best one grab mark in the team, but is this enough?

Provides bugger all defensive pressure up forward (hasn't laid a tackle in two weeks), and has been credited with one goal assist in his four games this year. Whilst he is not in the team to kick big bags it is also worth noting that he has only kicked multiple goals against GC last year, the landslide against Essendon in the finals and GWS yesterday...hardly pressure cooker stuff. With Walker back in the team and Hampson providing an option I am not sure he's needed up forward.

Yes he's an option to throw down back if plan A, B, C, and D have gone to shit, but again I don't know if this is enough to ensure a game.

15 games to get to 200. He deserves to make it, but I would like to think that someone takes hold of his spot in the not too distant future.

This

Experienced, good hands, fair kick, reads play well, plays within limitations. Can go back or forward.

BUT

Does not apply defensive pressure as a forward and no good one on one on big forwards. Is slow. Decision making iffy. Doesn't kick enough goals.

A very handy fringe/depth player. Not in our best 22 but will play plenty of games anway and play his role well enough.

And this for mine.

Hampson a twat for celebrating goals...now Bower's awesome running goal when we desperately needed such a statement was annoying.

Chance we might be becoming a spot fickle as a supporter group.

Just a tad. Fancy a player smiling after getting goal or a player taking a decision to play on with space in front of him

Ranks right up there with some of the ridiculous posts upto half time in the game day thread.

 

[Jimthegreat]

That final against Essendon last year was the best exhibition of contested pack and one-on-one marking I've seen from a Carlton forward for a long time. Defensive pressure was pretty good too last year up forward. So much better as a forward than a defender. Form hasn't quite been as good this year thus far but happy to have he and Waite forward with the resting ruckman as he adds that extra tall marking dimension the opposition have to look after. Nice to have another gun KP forward but we don't so Thornton fills the bill ok for now.

 

[The_Wookie]

I remain of the belief that hes a handy player, but more a jack of all trades type rather than a master.

Consider he plays a Waite type of game up forward, With Waite and Hampson up forward is there a need for Thornton? He cant do the role that Walker, Betts, and Garlett do.

In Defence, he makes a decent third man up, but I remain doubtful of his ability to man up on the games decent forwards. And we have Henderson and Jamison for that. He still tends to go backward in the defensive half and slows play down when it is not required - at least to my eyes. Touch and go with Bower at the moment, and Bower doesnt spaz out when it doesnt go his way.

Essentially for me, if everyone is fit and firing then Thornton is not required, he is however an acceptable cover for a week or two in these positions.

Goals: 4 for the year (1 against Richmond, 3 yesterday)
Marks: 30 for the year

Hes played 4 matches, missed the Pies and Dons.

 

[The Edukator]

I remain of the belief that hes a handy player, but more a jack of all trades type rather than a master.

Consider he plays a Waite type of game up forward, With Waite and Hampson up forward is there a need for Thornton? He cant do the role that Walker, Betts, and Garlett do.

In Defence, he makes a decent third man up, but I remain doubtful of his ability to man up on the games decent forwards. And we have Henderson and Jamison for that. He still tends to go backward in the defensive half and slows play down when it is not required - at least to my eyes. Touch and go with Bower at the moment, and Bower doesnt spaz out when it doesnt go his way.

Essentially for me, if everyone is fit and firing then Thornton is not required, he is however an acceptable cover for a week or two in these positions.

Goals: 4 for the year (1 against Richmond, 3 yesterday)
Marks: 30 for the year

Hes played 4 matches, missed the Pies and Dons.

having said all this then where does it leave bower because its essentially between the 2 for a spot at the moment. to me everything you have listed Thornton does better so im sticking with him

 

[Kramer1]

Yeah it was a good goal but it annoyed me. he took the mark and didn't even look around to see if he was safe from being tackled he just played on straight away. its this type of recklessness that often gets him in trouble and i think its a liability.

Just coming back to this now that we all have a chance to review it as a goal of the week nominee.

Takes the contested grab, hits the ground running, looks up to see a couple of potential blockers and an acre of space and goes for it. Champion effort.

 

[Coona Blues]

Intensity...that is the key to Bret Thornton.
Very talented and under rated player. Loved him during the dark years, was often a virtual lone hand down back, and it scarred and fatigued him. I thought he was lost a couple of years ago. Stories often stated he thought of himself as a frustrated midfielder. His motivation and probably love of the game was gone.
Being allowed the freedom to play forward has given Bret a new lease on life. When his intensity is up, he IS BEST 22, unfortunately he struggles to maintain motivation (IMO). Possibly too much of a thinker. Trips back to the 2's are not motivation enough, he needs the big occasion. Thus may not be a starter every week. If we are to win a flag this year, a focussed T-Bird is an essential ingredient.
Can still play forward or back if required, and adds so much coverage and option, just a slightly special case in the motivation stakes.

If "mythical" Mitchell becomes the player we hope and possibly expect, Thornton's future will be viewed in a different light. For now he is a required player.

 

[Big Delut]

I might be wrong but I remember Thornton getting subbed off at half time v west coast due to injury and only being solid at best up to that point.

 

[WALKERTOBETTS]

I'd take the experience wise one, bower still needs a few more years

 

[Claypigeon]

Thornton is a stalwart of the club, rarely shirks his duty on the field and Ratts (Pagan before him) has given him some dubious roles to try and achieve. .. I think he plays better when he has the backing of the coach, not sure trips back to the 2s are good for him. ..

He is fringe 22 because we are turning into a solid team but that doesn't make him a spud. .. Some supporters look at him and see Thornton circa 2010, the player caught in the old structure when the team had moved on. .. and now when he does the team instruction and switches play everyone harks back to that period and says he is slowing down play. ..

Solid grab, good kick (rarely if ever turns it over), plays above his height, football smarts and does whatever the coach asks (forward or back). .. Would make a excellent high half forward if team balance allowed. ..