Tactics and match ups for Hawthorn

[NathanS]

find it funny that your worried about our slowest player as good as he is the simple fact is you gonna get run off your feet again as for birchall being stanton like give me 3 stantons for a birchall weve got our best goalkicker out and we will still demolish you find a new coach boys

Birchall three times as good as Stanton? Then surely he'd get three times the stats? Now lets have a look:

So far this year:
Stanton averages 26.2 possessions.
Birchall averages 21.4 possessions.


Going by that, Stanton has the edge.

 

[goal kicking wingman]

Birchall three times as good as Stanton? Then surely he'd get three times the stats? Now lets have a look:

So far this year:
Stanton averages 26.2 possessions.
Birchall averages 21.4 possessions.


Going by that, Stanton has the edge.

Mate i hate birchell but stanton couldnt hit the side od a barn no point getting the ball if your just going to turn it over, his disposal is shocking.

 

[mick4]

Mate i hate birchell but stanton couldnt hit the side od a barn no point getting the ball if your just going to turn it over, his disposal is shocking.

I would have thought that Stanton kicking has improved out of sight in the last couple of seasons.

 

[soupofficial]

i've lost faith in comparing stats for players over the last couple of years. possessions is no longer an accurate measure of influence on a game, due to the chippy, proppy, over-possessing game that flooding and other tactics can induce.
if you're a half back flanker and your team's attacking thrusts keep breaking down on the wing, then the half back flanks will switch, transfer, backtrack, turn around, and possibly get nailed. that's 5 possessions when an effective team may have had 2.
this is part of the reason why birchall had a couple of high-possession games late last year. while he was very good with his positioning, composure, and decision making, it reflected the often poor ball movement by the team. i suspect stanton could be in the same boat with his 26 possession average this year.

on the other hand, lewis is averaging 28 or 30 in the midfield, and the possessions i see him get are generally heard-earned or constructive. he's our in-form midfielder, an important matchup for you guys tomorrow.

 

[mick4]

i've lost faith in comparing stats for players over the last couple of years. possessions is no longer an accurate measure of influence on a game, due to the chippy, proppy, over-possessing game that flooding and other tactics can induce.
if you're a half back flanker and your team's attacking thrusts keep breaking down on the wing, then the half back flanks will switch, transfer, backtrack, turn around, and possibly get nailed. that's 5 possessions when an effective team may have had 2.
this is part of the reason why birchall had a couple of high-possession games late last year. while he was very good with his positioning, composure, and decision making, it reflected the often poor ball movement by the team. i suspect stanton could be in the same boat with his 26 possession average this year.

on the other hand, lewis is averaging 28 or 30 in the midfield, and the possessions i see him get are generally heard-earned or constructive. he's our in-form midfielder, an important matchup for you guys tomorrow.

Stanton gets his possessions by running himself into the ground. He might get some cheap stats but at the same time he his not standing across half back by himself waiting

 

[bomberstomake8]

i've lost faith in comparing stats for players over the last couple of years. possessions is no longer an accurate measure of influence on a game, due to the chippy, proppy, over-possessing game that flooding and other tactics can induce.
if you're a half back flanker and your team's attacking thrusts keep breaking down on the wing, then the half back flanks will switch, transfer, backtrack, turn around, and possibly get nailed. that's 5 possessions when an effective team may have had 2.
this is part of the reason why birchall had a couple of high-possession games late last year. while he was very good with his positioning, composure, and decision making, it reflected the often poor ball movement by the team. i suspect stanton could be in the same boat with his 26 possession average this year.

on the other hand, lewis is averaging 28 or 30 in the midfield, and the possessions i see him get are generally heard-earned or constructive. he's our in-form midfielder, an important matchup for you guys tomorrow.

i agree however we are not talking about a half back flanker picking up uncontested marks all day long, we are talking about a key midfeilder. in the midfeild stats are a sign of a good player and stanton is a great player imo

 

[buddy23]

Great thread with some really insightful posts guys. Hope you don't mind if I chip in for a bit.

One Hawk I don't think has rated much of a mention here is Luke Hodge. The General really sets us up from the backline. He is usually the target for a short kick in (from which he goes long), and often feeds off a mitchell or lewis handball from the middle. Parkin said in the match against Geelong - "leave Hodge unmarked at your own peril". Unless you have someone up the other end who can play the same role and have a greater influence than Hodge, I think you should play a defensive forward on him.

Lloyd being injured changes your structure a lot (fortuantly for us) as you will revert to something similar to last year with Lucas being your main target. Gilham or Croad are the main candidates with the likes of Campbell Brown dropping into the hole. If Gilham goes with Lucas, expect Croad to start forward in an effort to straighten us up by providing a steady target.

Davey is a very important match up as his closing speed and tackling will put our inexperienced backline under the pump. I think either Osbourne or Ladson will run with him as they often get his brother. I think both will struggle to contain him, he is difficult to match up on.

Looking forward to a great match!

 

[toquick]

Birchall three times as good as Stanton? Then surely he'd get three times the stats? Now lets have a look:

So far this year:
Stanton averages 26.2 possessions.
Birchall averages 21.4 possessions.


Going by that, Stanton has the edge.

Stanton is playing in the mid, birchy is playing across half back. Stanton should be getting alot more of the footy!

 

[ant555]

Great thread with some really insightful posts guys. Hope you don't mind if I chip in for a bit.

One Hawk I don't think has rated much of a mention here is Luke Hodge. The General really sets us up from the backline. He is usually the target for a short kick in (from which he goes long), and often feeds off a mitchell or lewis handball from the middle. Parkin said in the match against Geelong - "leave Hodge unmarked at your own peril". Unless you have someone up the other end who can play the same role and have a greater influence than Hodge, I think you should play a defensive forward on him.

Lloyd being injured changes your structure a lot (fortuantly for us) as you will revert to something similar to last year with Lucas being your main target. Gilham or Croad are the main candidates with the likes of Campbell Brown dropping into the hole. If Gilham goes with Lucas, expect Croad to start forward in an effort to straighten us up by providing a steady target.

Davey is a very important match up as his closing speed and tackling will put our inexperienced backline under the pump. I think either Osbourne or Ladson will run with him as they often get his brother. I think both will struggle to contain him, he is difficult to match up on.

Looking forward to a great match!

Good post re Hodge , i would suspect that Andrew Welsh will get him. Before he was injured we where using him at half forward to play on the running half backs.

 

[dave_27]

Stanton is playing in the mid, birchy is playing across half back. Stanton should be getting alot more of the footy!

Cheap possies off the half back line, WOW.

 

[RED AND BLACK SOLDIER]

find it funny that your worried about our slowest player as good as he is the simple fact is you gonna get run off your feet again as for birchall being stanton like give me 3 stantons for a birchall weve got our best goalkicker out and we will still demolish you find a new coach boys

If/when we win, your gonna look like a bit a of a goose!!!!!!!

Stanton is a gun, twice the player Birchall is, and im sure any of the other 16 clubs would take Stanton over Birchall anyday of the week. Your either overating Brichall, or your just hugely underating Stanton, which one is it mate?

 

[topdon]

Stanton is playing in the mid, birchy is playing across half back. Stanton should be getting alot more of the footy!

Hawthorn's gameplan:

Chip ... chip ... chip ... chip ... bounce ... chip ... chip.

BORING!!

 

[mule]

Hawthorn's gameplan:

Chip ... chip ... chip ... chip ... bounce ... chip ... chip.

BORING!!

sorry that's "Chip ... chip ...chip ... bounce ... chip ... chip ... Win"

Should be a good game, we will be feilding just about our best team, less Williams. I would have liked to have seen Lloyd playing, just so we can judge where we are at.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Saw this on another club board and thought it was a good idea.

How do we beat Hawthorn, who are their key players and what can we do to exploit their weaknesses.

Hawthorn key players (in order) :
Mitchell, Sewell, Franklin, Lewis, Birchall

Mitchell has been in blistering form so far this season. Has great hands, a neat kick and is equally proficient on both sides. Has a great ability to shark opposition rucks tap outs. Does usually go sideways from the centre bounce to running flankers with Burchill being the main linkman.

Sewell's main job has been to restrict the oppositions most damaging midfielder and he has been doing a fantastic job.

Franklin is the main forward for Hawthorn and has great athleticism.

Lewis is a mini Mitchell but tends to drift to the back half of the field.

Burchill is Hawthorns best linkman and is quietly developing into a Stanton type off the half back flank.

Match Ups
Mitchell - because of the role he plays Mitchell is basically un-tagable. What Essendon have to do is restrict the flow past him as he will go sideways to find a free target more often than not. Almost tempted to let Lovett go head to head with him. If Andy can get a few goals it might just nullify Mitchells influence as he will get 30 possessions.

Sewell - don't know who he'll go to. Main suspects are McVeigh, Stanton or Hird. If its Stanton, I fear he'll be too good for him. If its Hird, its a win for us as he is not the same influence he once was. If McVeigh, then I would get him to assume a run with role on Burchill and they can play ring a ring a rosy for a while.

Franklin - while its romantic to hope that Paddy will play on him, the best bet is Fletcher. Has the height and atleticism to match it with him. More importantly, Franklin is lazy on his defensive side and Fletcher can exploit him there.

Lewis - try and get him on his right side as much as possible. Would assign Winderlich (if fit) to play him tight defensively and run off him offensively. Has got a penetrating kick so try and restrict his possessions to be in traffic.

Burchill - Hawthorns best runner in my opinion. McVeigh is our best option as he is good overhead, is footy smart and does have pace. If McVeigh can kick a few goals early it might get Burchill off his natural game which has the added bonus of making some of Mitchells work ineffectual.

As a team we do not want stoppages. Hawthorn will beat us in that area with players like Mitchell, Lewis and Crawford. If we get the ball out in the open, we should have the better runners and forwards to beat them.

The Hawks forward line is not a great concern. Michael to whoever plays deep whether that be Boyle or Roughhead and Paddy to get the other player.

Hawks are also coming off a six day break which should also work in our favour.

We should win but Mitchell really worries me.

Ok for staters you have missed a few of our key players!
Crawford, Brown, HODGE, croad, dixon, Jacobs (u should of known as he is an ex bomber) Guerra & Gilham! Who's Gilham did i hear you say? Well if you do not know you find out soon enough!

Mitchell's form has been down compared to his last season, but you are right to be worried about him, as he due for a ripper of a game.

Hawthorn has many good link men and birchall is not on his own there, Croad, Jacobs and Hodge comes to mind!

Match ups? Lovett verses Mitchell. Sorry won't work. As the bombers will be ripping them self off of pace. He is your one player that has pace and flare. Lovett will run off mitch will get the ball on the rebound and kill you with his skill! tagging job is your best hope!

Sewell verse davey would be my choice. Davey appears to be a gem for the bombers and plays much like his brother! Is one of essedons up and comming players, very dangerous!

How can Lewis be a mini Mitchell. they look nothing alike, play a difrrently and mitch is 170 cm and lewis is 185 cm. Lewis is in the hodge style. Lewis and hodge, Brown, campbell, croad, are the up and comming enforcers at hawk land along with franklin and roughy once they have finished developing body wise. Mitch is tough at the ball and won't dodge a collision, but he is not an in your face enforcer, distract your opponet type player!

Franklin verse Paddy/fletcher. Franklin has to much pace and flare for flecther now. Stick paddy on him and let him learn. I like the look of paddy, appears to have the same flare as franklin just doesnt have the confidence or the now how to use his flare. Paddy may lose out to franklin, but reckon he will be better for the bombers for the experience.

Lewis verse ? A hard question. Lewis has all the skills and is a rough gem for the hawks. As his body finds more fitness and he picks up pace he will turn in to a polished gem. Nothing will stop this guy from being a star, as long as he want to be elite he will do it. So happy the hawks stealed him with pick 7. Maybe mark johonson to take him on? would good for the veiwing eyes!

Birchall verse mcveigh no way. If birchall was slow mcveigh could steal his over head marks on the lead. Brichall is not slow and will crave mcveigh up. Id try flecther or maybe or bolton.

Better runners? I seriously doubt that! At the very least we are on par!
dons runners with pace & skill: Mcveigh, Mcphee, Davey, lovett, paddy
hawks " " Lewis, Hodge, Brichall, Crawford, Bateman, Franklin, Croad.....


I think the bombers have under esitimated some of our lesser know hawks. Any may the best team win on the day....... time will tell later today. I'm sure it will be an entertaining match!

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Birchall three times as good as Stanton? Then surely he'd get three times the stats? Now lets have a look:

So far this year:
Stanton averages 26.2 possessions.
Birchall averages 21.4 possessions.


Going by that, Stanton has the edge.

Lets compare the boys at the same stages of there careers. I have a feeling birchall who is only in his second year will be ahead!

 

[monty1104]

Ok for staters you have missed a few of our key players!
Crawford, Brown, HODGE, croad, dixon, Jacobs (u should of known as he is an ex bomber) Guerra & Gilham! Who's Gilham did i hear you say? Well if you do not know you find out soon enough!

Mitchell's form has been down compared to his last season, but you are right to be worried about him, as he due for a ripper of a game.

Hawthorn has many good link men and birchall is not on his own there, Croad, Jacobs and Hodge comes to mind!

Match ups? Lovett verses Mitchell. Sorry won't work. As the bombers will be ripping them self off of pace. He is your one player that has pace and flare. Lovett will run off mitch will get the ball on the rebound and kill you with his skill! tagging job is your best hope!

Sewell verse davey would be my choice. Davey appears to be a gem for the bombers and plays much like his brother! Is one of essedons up and comming players, very dangerous!

How can Lewis be a mini Mitchell. they look nothing alike, play a difrrently and mitch is 170 cm and lewis is 185 cm. Lewis is in the hodge style. Lewis and hodge, Brown, campbell, croad, are the up and comming enforcers at hawk land along with franklin and roughy once they have finished developing body wise. Mitch is tough at the ball and won't dodge a collision, but he is not an in your face enforcer, distract your opponet type player!

Franklin verse Paddy/fletcher. Franklin has to much pace and flare for flecther now. Stick paddy on him and let him learn. I like the look of paddy, appears to have the same flare as franklin just doesnt have the confidence or the now how to use his flare. Paddy may lose out to franklin, but reckon he will be better for the bombers for the experience.

Lewis verse ? A hard question. Lewis has all the skills and is a rough gem for the hawks. As his body finds more fitness and he picks up pace he will turn in to a polished gem. Nothing will stop this guy from being a star, as long as he want to be elite he will do it. So happy the hawks stealed him with pick 7. Maybe mark johonson to take him on? would good for the veiwing eyes!

Birchall verse mcveigh no way. If birchall was slow mcveigh could steal his over head marks on the lead. Brichall is not slow and will crave mcveigh up. Id try flecther or maybe or bolton.

Better runners? I seriously doubt that! At the very least we are on par!
dons runners with pace & skill: Mcveigh, Mcphee, Davey, lovett, paddy
hawks " " Lewis, Hodge, Brichall, Crawford, Bateman, Franklin, Croad.....


I think the bombers have under esitimated some of our lesser know hawks. Any may the best team win on the day....... time will tell later today. I'm sure it will be an entertaining match!

Half of your team can't be "key" players. If they were, you wouldnt have lost a game yet.

And saying "put Paddy on him so he can learn", you're making it sound like we have no chance of making the finals and should just play kids. We will use our best possible matchups on all players, not just put young guys on them to learn.

Mate, according to you, you have Essendon covered in all facets of the game. If that is the case, you should run out 10 goal victors. That will not happen, so maybe you should just realise that while Hawthorn is good and only going to get better, they are running on par with Essendon. I said before the start of the season that Hawthorn Essendon and Carlton all look like they will be peaking at around the same time. Looking at the year so far, I'd say that was pretty correct. Don't write Essendon off just because we wern't good last year. We are getting much better, as you will see today.

 

[monty1104]

Birchall is no where near as good as Stanton, at this point anyway. Stanton is a couple of years ahead of Birchall, but Birchall will get there. Stanton will carve you up today (unless Sewell gets him). Birchall is a reciever across half back, much in the vein of the much loathed Heath Scotland (man I hate that guy). I just hope that is only happening because he needs the experience, because it would be a shame to waste a talent like him simply gathering meaningless stats across half back.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Half of your team can't be "key" players. If they were, you wouldnt have lost a game yet.

And saying "put Paddy on him so he can learn", you're making it sound like we have no chance of making the finals and should just play kids. We will use our best possible matchups on all players, not just put young guys on them to learn.

Mate, according to you, you have Essendon covered in all facets of the game. If that is the case, you should run out 10 goal victors. That will not happen, so maybe you should just realise that while Hawthorn is good and only going to get better, they are running on par with Essendon. I said before the start of the season that Hawthorn Essendon and Carlton all look like they will be peaking at around the same time. Looking at the year so far, I'd say that was pretty correct. Don't write Essendon off just because we wern't good last year. We are getting much better, as you will see today.

The players i have mention as key players can all win games for the hawks. We need all of them to put in 4 full qtrs and for at least four of them to star in a game together!

The hawks are a couple of years away from being serious premiership threats. I do feel (& this is only my veiw) the hawks are ahead in developing young players compared to the blues and the dons.

The don are ahead of the hawks in area of experience, to have old players to tech there youngsters..

I was only referring to letting paddy learn on buddy, as i do not believe you really have much else that can control buddys as a full package. No where else have mention the dons should just play young player?

As i speak the don are ahead by 2 goals, let the fun begiun and i hope its a great game and the hawks win (of cause ) good luck

 

[monty1104]

Well i suppose you are right about having no one for Buddy. Fork, he is killing us.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Well i suppose you are right about having no one for Buddy. Fork, he is killing us.

Its a good game to date for entertainment purposes, shows we are close on development levels.....

Dyson has impressed me, seems to have some toe of the half back!

 

[monty1104]

THANK YOU!!!! Maybe you could convince some of the others on here that Dyson has a future and we should persist with him.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

Well i suppose you are right about having no one for Buddy. Fork, he is killing us.

Buddy buddy buddy 9 goals our new full forward has just raised his hand! Great games by the hawks, good competative game from the DONS!

Not is all lost for the bombers, plenty of young good players comming through!

 

[monty1104]

Yeah Buddy was awesome. Dont ever get rid of him, even if WCE offer Judd, Cox and Kerr for him. Buddy will be the best player in the comp in a very short time. Will be better than J.Brown.

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

THANK YOU!!!! Maybe you could convince some of the others on here that Dyson has a future and we should persist with him.

Hell yes the kid Dyson has a future, id have him at the hawks. He can take osbornes places.

future DONS whom i though were impressive

Dyson
Monfries
Daveys
Lovett
Ryder
Welsh
Winderlich
Stanton.

Dons need to get more from Watson, Johns, Mcphee. Aslo need to develop a forward and defender to replace Hird, fletcher and lucas and lloyd in a few years times.

 

[Hawk Dork]

I like this song


[youtube]HMzkVuq1fjc[/youtube]