Analysis Tale of the tape for your AFL team in 2019: Richmond

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Dr Tigris

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#27
It'll be interesting to see how we deal with this in 2019.

Maybe we'll use a hybrid (Balta, Chol) to see how that works. Maybe the young back up rucks, CCJ or Soldo will play a fair bit. Maybe just Nank. But we've seen that exploited by teams with top notch rucks. I don't think our coaching group is stuck on things. They adapt and learn.
 

mopsy

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#30
Reasonable write up. Identified what most of us see as the big weakness:

"Ruck depth is definitely one area where Richmond got badly exposed on preliminary final night as Brodie Grundy ran amok against Toby Nankervis and Shaun Grigg. But interestingly, the Tigers didn’t go out and bolster that department in the off-season. "

No solution offered, though.

I can't see Lynch doing much rucking. Coming off a PCL, "big fish" free agent - probably seen as too valuable to risk. Although I bloody wish they would give playing Soldo and Nank together a proper crack against Grundy, Gawn, NicNat etc, I can't see the selectors going that way.

Looking forward to seeing a few creative things tried in the pre-season.
There is one other option to look at in the future. That is to say Nankervis is not good enough gets badly shown up against the better ruckmen going around and actually aim at finding our own Grundy or Gawn who are sole ruckmen week in week out.

When has Lynch ever even as a pinch hitter gone into the ruck. He may be 199cm but he just doesnt play ruck hes a damn fine kpf and that is what he will play as.
 

mopsy

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#31
Hmm we cant play two ruckmen because what second ruck options we have dont offer enough either as a ruckman or around the ground.
Someone here said last yr when talking about tall fwds, why would you play a tall fwd who is not up standard when you can play a smaller player who may do a different role but is up to standard.We should not be playing any one just for the sake of them being a certain type that we lack but arent good enough for the standard.

We play Nankervis despite him being carved up in ruck contests most weeks!!!!! but he does give a decent contest and he gives us enough when the ball hits the ground and around the ground.
When he comes up against more agile blokes like Grundy and Gwn then he becomes a real liability because these blokes dont only beat him in the ruck but hurt him at the contest and around the ground.
 

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#33
When he comes up against more agile blokes like Grundy and Gwn then he becomes a real liability because these blokes dont only beat him in the ruck but hurt him at the contest and around the ground.
I actually thought that in our matches against Melbourne and Collingwood last year (apart from the PF), Nank more than held his own in general play, particularly against Grundy.

He does need some sort of help though. And I don't think it can be Grigg anymore.
 

Tiger_Of_Old

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#34
Here is mine.

Nick Vlastuin, David Astbury, Dylan Grimes
Jack Graham, Alex Rance, Jayden Short
Oleg Marcov, Dion Prestia, Daniel Rioli
Kane Lambert, Jacob Riewoldt, Shane Edwards
Josh Caddy, Tom Lynch, Dan Butler
Toby Nankervis, Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin


Inter: Jack Higgins, Jason Castagna, Callum Coleman-Jones, Nathan Broad
Emerg:Brandon Ellis, Kamdyn McIntosh, Shaun Grigg, Ryan Garthwaite.

Unlucky: Noah Balta, Bachar Houli

Graham comes in as that hard defensive mid that takes Concas position. Loves to tackle and take the mid that goes forward but also allows him to get possessions of his own. Could also see him trialled as a designated tagger which I think we need but may blunt his offensive output, which he needs to add to his game.

Marcov onto the wing taking Griggs spot. He provides more run and the ruck rule changes don’t help Grigg.

[Prestia into the middle if he gets through a full pre-season. Get his body right and he’s a gun in and under.

Rioli onto the wing as he’s built his endurance. This moves Edwards to a high half forward who pushes into the middle to affect the 50/50 ball but also allows him to move forward to impact on the scoreboard. Lambert the other hard running high half forward, his best position.

Jack moves to CHF and runs the ground as the designated out kick on one side of the ground (Nank or CCJ on the other). He’ll rotate with Lynch at times no doubt.

Caddy plays 80% forward taking advantage of playing third fiddle. Expect another 40 goal season.

Lynch plays deep forward while he regains he’s fitness and probably his optimal position, inside 50.

Butler into the 18 over George due to his cleaness and ability to run the ground.

Interchange: Snags plays the Lambert role, but he looks to have billed up so perhaps eventually gunning for more of a core mid role. George comes on and impacts from inside 50. CCJ relieves Nank and also rests forward if Jack pushes up. Broadt provides cover for Rance, Ast, Grimes, and even can push onto the wing of required, taking KMacs big bodied running role- good versatility.
Think this is how we will get around the 2nd ruck problem.
We'd be basically leaving the 4th bench primary as the Nank>>Balta/CCJ/Soldo interchange therefore being 1 down in our mid rotations available off the bench therefore be more of resting our mids up fwd than too the bench.
I'm not to concerned if this happens as we have enopugh players in the midfield and up fwd who can rotate between the 2.
Its a matter of getting those combinations right each time.
We have 6mnts planning to get it down pat.
 

Tiger Toffee

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#35
People are over thinking this ruck stuff, the tweak and that's all it is won't change nada.

We will not be playing a 2nd ruck and will not be making massive changes due to one game.

We will still be playing Grigg, Rioli and whatever other shortarse in the ruck.
 

Dr Tigris

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#36
People are over thinking this ruck stuff, the tweak and that's all it is won't change nada.

We will not be playing a 2nd ruck and will not be making massive changes due to one game.

We will still be playing Grigg, Rioli and whatever other shortarse in the ruck.
I agree for 15 teams. But Gawn and Grundy kill us. I don't see Nic Nat as much of threat around the ground, so just 2 contending teams.

I reckon we'll probably have plans and will play it by ear. If we need to we play some sort of genuine second ruck. Maybe using it as an opportunity to give the younger guys game time without the pressure. But we have both Jack and Tom to play ruck in the forward 50, so that reduces the load a bit. I'm not expecting huge changes, but I do expect us to trya few things next next season.
 

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Tiger Toffee

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#37
I agree for 15 teams. But Gawn and Grundy kill us. I don't see Nic Nat as much of threat around the ground, so just 2 contending teams.

I reckon we'll probably have plans and will play it by ear. If we need to we play some sort of genuine second ruck. Maybe using it as an opportunity to give the younger guys game time without the pressure. But we have both Jack and Tom to play ruck in the forward 50, so that reduces the load a bit. I'm not expecting huge changes, but I do expect us to trya few things next next season.
Melbourne lost to us and we went 2-1 against the pies, teams who react to one game, ( ala crows ) collapse. As for Dees and pies being contending teams, let's see if they can back up under top 6 draws and not bottom 6 draws.

The moment you start reacting to what other teams do is when your screwed, you pick your team to how YOU wan't to play not to how the other team might want to play.
 

Dr Tigris

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#39
Melbourne lost to us and we went 2-1 against the pies, teams who react to one game, ( ala crows ) collapse. As for Dees and pies being contending teams, let's see if they can back up under top 6 draws and not bottom 6 draws.

The moment you start reacting to what other teams do is when your screwed, you pick your team to how YOU wan't to play not to how the other team might want to play.
Completely agree. I am referring to the rule changes, which may lead to rucks having more influence. If they do then Nank's weaknesses will be exposed. Nank is awesome, but not a great ruck. If we can neutralize the rule changes - wouldn't surprise me - then all good Nank rucks alone.
 

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#40
Completely agree. I am referring to the rule changes, which may lead to rucks having more influence. If they do then Nank's weaknesses will be exposed. Nank is awesome, but not a great ruck. If we can neutralize the rule changes - wouldn't surprise me - then all good Nank rucks alone.
Understand that about the rule change, but all they have done is make official a rule that has been massively relaxed the past two years.

Ruckman have been taking the ball out of the ruck more and more the last two years and not getting pinged when touched anyway, still have to dispose legally and pinch hitting smalls will still be the order of the day when required.

And remember, unless your close to goal taking it out of the ruck is dicing with death because

A: you can tackled and pinged for holding the ball
B: even if you get a kick away it will be under pressure and no guarantee to land with a teammate.

As far as i'm concerned, if a Grundy or Gawn want to grab the ball and kick blindly then go for it i say.
 

Dr Tigris

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#41
Understand that about the rule change, but all they have done is make official a rule that has been massively relaxed the past two years.

Ruckman have been taking the ball out of the ruck more and more the last two years and not getting pinged when touched anyway, still have to dispose legally and pinch hitting smalls will still be the order of the day when required.

And remember, unless your close to goal taking it out of the ruck is dicing with death because

A: you can tackled and pinged for holding the ball
B: even if you get a kick away it will be under pressure and no guarantee to land with a teammate.

As far as i'm concerned, if a Grundy or Gawn want to grab the ball and kick blindly then go for it i say.

I am agnostic about it all, until I see what happens.

But typically they make a rule change and it sort of works initially. Then clubs adjust and something else entirely happens. I imagine that if Nank shifted his focus slightly to be more aware of tackling to oppo ruck if needed he could actually turn the rule around on its head. But I don't know - until I know. ;)
 

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#42
I reckon dominant ruckmen when we come across them puts our midfield behind the 8 ball and under unneeded pressure from the outset. We are not great when it comes to Clearances and contested possesions and imo Nankervis constantly losing his position in some ways helps contribute to this.We have found ways to deal with this but fmd it is not ideal and it needs to be resolved. Its an area if we are looking for improvement THAT WE NEED TO BE PROACTIVE IN.

As for finding a chop out for Nankervis well it really should be one of the other talls in the team that does it. Maybe it will have to be Lynch or we bite the bullet and play a third tall fwd like Chol or CC-J and move Caddy out of the fwd half.

Teams we played against last yr went like this with chop outs for their ruckmen

Kruezer had 199cm Casboult give him a chop out.
Jacobs had 199cm Jenkins
McEvoy had 204cm ceglar
Grundy had 211cm Cox
Sandilands had 193cm cox and 190cm Fyfe
Goldstein had 195cm Daw
Naitanui had 203cm Lycett
Hickey had 201cm Carlisle and 201cm Marshall
Bellchambers had 196cm McKernan
Ryder had 200cm Westhoff and 200cm Dixon
Stanley had 198cm hawkins and 189cm Menegola. Abbott had 198cm Blicavs
Sinclair had ??????
Simpson had 207cm Lobb
Martin had 203cm Hipwood and 197cm Walker
Gawn had 195cm Wiedeman
Witts had 198cm Crossley
Roughead had 197cm Trengove

Nankervis is only 199cm and in the vast majority of cases the second stringers he came up against were just as tall if not taller than him.Most were KPP'S who clubs could afford to to give a run to without losing structure i dont think we have been in that position. Rance and Astbury were badly needed in defense and there was only one tall fwd in JR.

I laugh my head off when people say Grigg played ruck really!!!!! The reality is he was a spectator 99.9% of the time.
 

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#43
I reckon dominant ruckmen when we come across them puts our midfield behind the 8 ball and under unneeded pressure from the outset. We are not great when it comes to Clearances and contested possesions and imo Nankervis constantly losing his position in some ways helps contribute to this.We have found ways to deal with this but fmd it is not ideal and it needs to be resolved. Its an area if we are looking for improvement THAT WE NEED TO BE PROACTIVE IN.

As for finding a chop out for Nankervis well it really should be one of the other talls in the team that does it. Maybe it will have to be Lynch or we bite the bullet and play a third tall fwd like Chol or CC-J and move Caddy out of the fwd half.

Teams we played against last yr went like this with chop outs for their ruckmen

Kruezer had 199cm Casboult give him a chop out.
Jacobs had 199cm Jenkins
McEvoy had 204cm ceglar
Grundy had 211cm Cox
Sandilands had 193cm cox and 190cm Fyfe
Goldstein had 195cm Daw
Naitanui had 203cm Lycett
Hickey had 201cm Carlisle and 201cm Marshall
Bellchambers had 196cm McKernan
Ryder had 200cm Westhoff and 200cm Dixon
Stanley had 198cm hawkins and 189cm Menegola. Abbott had 198cm Blicavs
Sinclair had ??????
Simpson had 207cm Lobb
Martin had 203cm Hipwood and 197cm Walker
Gawn had 195cm Wiedeman
Witts had 198cm Crossley
Roughead had 197cm Trengove

Nankervis is only 199cm and in the vast majority of cases the second stringers he came up against were just as tall if not taller than him.Most were KPP'S who clubs could afford to to give a run to without losing structure i dont think we have been in that position. Rance and Astbury were badly needed in defense and there was only one tall fwd in JR.



I laugh my head off when people say Grigg played ruck really!!!!! The reality is he was a spectator 99.9% of the time.
And i laugh my head off when people bemoan Grigg in the ruck, especially considering the fact that we outscore the opposition when Grigg is in the ruck.

We are not going to be playing a second ruck because we don't need to, you don't screw around with your structure because of what other teams are doing.
 

mopsy

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#44
Teams are for ever tweaking what they do in search of improvement. Quite clearly the Grigg situation cannot continue.
It is patently clear we are a better team when Nankervis is on the ground for no other reason he gives us a contest dont we also outscore the opposition when he is in the ruck.
We have outscored teams no matter who is in there but that doesnt mean we can not improve and make it easier for our mids and our defenders.

Already our structure has changed with Lynch and a ball has not been kicked. The need to play and get games into blokes like Garthwaite, Balta Moore and it could change even more.
We at least then may have the ability to play someone much more suited to the role who can give a contest because in the past we have had no option but play a token ruckman due to a real lack of talls in the team. Move Rance and Astbury then what. Move Jr and theres not one tall fwd. Simply put we have played Grigg in the ruck because we have had no other option we are getting found out and we do need to change.
 

RunningBounce

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#45
Soldo plays well enough to deserve a few more games in the seniors. Or, Let JR continue to do some rucking in fwd half. Lynch should be able to contest throw ins or ball ups in the fwd half.
I would have picked Soldo in the games against dominant rucks all of 2018. He might never be a Brownlow medallist, but his improvement has been really something, and I reckon he'll improve again with time at AFL level. But it will take games, and the selection committee don't seem to want to give him any.

I reckon we'll see JR continue in the forward half, as you say, but it's the centre bounces and defensive half work when Nank is resting that really hurt us.

I love Grigg and he runs all day. Would hate to see him go but who else is there?
I couldn't leave out Grigg. Just couldn't. Not yet, anyway. Time will catch him sooner or later, though. In the meantime, I'd probably drop Broad and shift KMac back. Or drop KMac and move Broad to the wing.

All we need now is the second ruck. Hopefully Soldo will get a few games unless someone else comes through. Balta or CCJ perhaps?
Soldo is my preference, but CCJ, with some added pre-season kgs, must be pretty close a debut.

I really like the upside of Balta, but the downside is pretty down. I'd need to see him get through a full game of VFL without a big concentration lapse. Just another year of adulthood should get him closer. (Will also need me to watch an entire game of VFL without the massive concentration lapse of $6 cans and dim sim packs. Not likely.)

There is one other option to look at in the future. That is to say Nankervis is not good enough gets badly shown up against the better ruckmen going around and actually aim at finding our own Grundy or Gawn who are sole ruckmen week in week out.
Could be CCJ whose our future ruck star, but even Grundy and Gawn get a chop-out.
 

Dr Tigris

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#47
Met Soldo's dad at my Gym and he reckon's the youngster is happy at RFC and is hoping/expecting more AFL time this year.

So given it's dad talking to some guy he doesn't know in the gym (Soldo snr was decked out in full tiger gear so I had a chat) I reckon Ivan has been told he's a shot at more game time in 2019. But third hand, via an interested party = not worth a lot.
 

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#48
Met Soldo's dad at my Gym and he reckon's the youngster is happy at RFC and is hoping/expecting more AFL time this year.

So given it's dad talking to some guy he doesn't know in the gym (Soldo snr was decked out in full tiger gear so I had a chat) I reckon Ivan has been told he's a shot at more game time in 2019. But third hand, via an interested party = not worth a lot.
will be playing for the bum**** 2s in 2020
 

JAKLAUGHING

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#50
I know one thing, if Nank goes down, we're in a bit of bother.
Yes but then every other team is in that very same boat...
Prolly not in that big of a bother as possibly last year...this year we have a few more options to play around with...
Soldo, Balta, CCJ, maybe TLynch in the forward line...then there's Grigg!
 
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