List Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

naraku

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Overall I think it'll be a case of:

Cut/retire: Long, Leuenberger, Dea? (speculation he may go into the police force or something?)
Keep: Baguley, Hartley
DFA: Decent reserve ruck that can play forward.
ND: Bytel, Hugo Munn, Hind
RD: Fletcher, outside mid.
Pretty spot on, but I am guessing Long is staying since he is still listed and Colyer is out.
 

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TheGrizz

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Ok so with hartley re signing and Bags to be rookied, we have 34 on the senior list including Shiel signed up for next year.
Long, Dea, are yet to be re signed

Seeing that we need a minimum of 38 senior listed players next year, it will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Baguley is apparently to be re-rookied and even though Smack signed a 2yr deal there was no mention of promotion (you can be a rookie for 3 years) and Draper + Mynott (surely) being given another year after solid showings, that is 4 rookies and 38 overall. McNeice remains unsigned.

We have to take 3 picks to the draft, even if one or two are rookie upgrades.
To get to the minimum of 38 senior listed players we need 4 more senior listed players - so lets play a game! How do we reckon it shakes out.

For me:
McNeice: 1 year rookie contract
Long: Delisted
Dea: 1 year deal.

No promotions.

Take 3 live picks to the national draft (32, 66 and 84)
1 live pick to the Rookie draft (Plus Baguley being rookied).

That makes 38 senior and 6 rookie players (plus Lavender as cat B) who doesnt take a list spot. Optimal seeing that Shiel has come on reasonable coin and the players last year as well. Keeps salary down but gives flexibility as rookies can play without someone being on the LTI list.

EDIT: I counted Leuey as signed as he is apparently close to doing so though not officially as yet.
 
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blitzer

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Ok so with hartley re signing and Bags to be rookied, we have 34 on the senior list including Shiel signed up for next year.
Long, Dea, are yet to be re signed

Seeing that we need a minimum of 38 senior listed players next year, it will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Baguley is apparently to be re-rookied and even though Smack signed a 2yr deal there was no mention of promotion (you can be a rookie for 3 years) and Draper + Mynott (surely) being given another year after solid showings, that is 4 rookies and 38 overall. McNeice remains unsigned.

We have to take 3 picks to the draft, even if one or two are rookie upgrades.
To get to the minimum of 38 senior listed players we need 4 more senior listed players - so lets play a game! How do we reckon it shakes out.

For me:
McNeice: 1 year rookie contract
Long: Delisted
Dea: 1 year deal.

No promotions.

Take 3 live picks to the national draft (32, 66 and 84)
1 live pick to the Rookie draft (Plus Baguley being rookied).

That makes 38 senior and 6 rookie players (plus Lavender as cat B) who doesnt take a list spot. Optimal seeing that Shiel has come on reasonable coin and the players last year as well. Keeps salary down but gives flexibility as rookies can play without someone being on the LTI list.

EDIT: I counted Leuey as signed as he is apparently close to doing so though not officially as yet.
I find it hard to believe McNiece has earned another year. Thought he really struggled this year and as a mature ager in his second year the club, don't think he will keep his spot.

I hope Dea gets a 1 year deal. Played his role more often than not this year. Did struggle against genuine quality at times but worthwhile depth.

Long probably gets delisted but if it came down to him or McNiece I'd favour Long.
 

Yoda_

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As it stands now;

Outs;

- J.Merret
- B.Goddard
- Josh Green
- Trav Colyer (traded)
- Mark Baguley (re rookied)


Ins;
- Dylan Shiel
- Shaun McKernan (upgraded - 2 years)
- Pick 34
- Pick 66
- Pick 84


Of the three guys without a contract, can't understand why we are not simply moving on Matt Dea or Jake Long but downgrading Mark Baguley. Would leave us with 5 relatively late picks in the draft with Lleunberger going around one more year apparently.


At the draft would absolutely love another inside midfielder. A Jack Bytel would be brilliant. Luke Valente won't be available but would be a great get at 34. Go best available later in the draft or a mature ager who fills a role.
 

naraku

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Still have no idea why
Assuming he is staying, I would like to think Woosh sees something and is not because of his dad. I think he might be adequate as a defensive forward but it's a bit strange this whole situation.
Then again Jake might be delisted the next day or so for all we know.
 
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Of the three guys without a contract, can't understand why we are not simply moving on Matt Dea or Jake Long but downgrading Mark Baguley. Would leave us with 5 relatively late picks in the draft with Lleunberger going around one more year apparently.
I agree it seems odd that Baguley would be put on the rookie list but Dea and Long would be retained. Given the 'delisting' of Bags hasn't been an official club announcement, I'm still expecting Dea and Long to be let go.

Surely we've seen enough of Long to know he's not going to make it. Dea certainly gives his all but with our backline, we are pretty well stocked with versatility inclusive of Ridley, Redman, Gleeson, Francis as a medium/3rdT defender and as sml defenders Saad, McKenna, McNiece and McGrath/Guelfi (if necessary).

Maybe there is someone OOC we are chasing as a DFA and we take 4 at the draft. Maybe we don't rate anyone at the end of the draft for a 2 year contact and we upgrade Draper and McNiece while taking 3 players with 34, 66, 84. Maybe its a combination of the two.
 

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BrunoV

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Assuming he is staying, I would like to think Woosh sees something and is not because of his dad. I think he might be adequate as a defensive forward but it's a bit strange this whole situation.
Then again Jake might be delisted the next day or so for all we know.

I'll premise this by saying that, as is not always the case, I want Long to come good because of who he is. Who doesn't like the romance of the son of a great player of a club continuing the legacy?

Hell, I both think that he will and want Jack Silvagni to make it and for his brother to join him. What could be better than Essendon with a Fletcher, Long, Daniher and maybe even a Neagle breaking the heart of a Silvagni-led Carlton in big matches before 90-odd thousand people at the MCG? Neagle aside, they are the memories as a child that had me hooked on footy.

On Long, I don't believe for a second that the club has been easy on him because he is Michael's son and because of the story. I assume that list management will have been prepared to persist with Jake because he clearly has his father's raw ability and that makes for special players. He's got the freaky ball handling, ability to think in 360 degrees no matter how little space he has, speed, agility, etc and unlike Jay Neagle, for example, Long has no apparent issue with professionalism and training standards, etc.

I believe that knowing what we know about Micheal justifies persistence with Jake given what Jake has shown. I think that is a very different thing to a decision to retain Jake based on emotion. You couldn't have applied the same rationale to persist with Jobe, for example, who was nothing like Tim and had showed virtually nothing by the end of his third year.

The problem I now have is that there will be a post in almost the exact same terms from about this time last year and, having watched almost every game Jake has played this year, there has been no apparent improvement in his game. That does mean he hasn't "been working on things" on request from the coaches but if I can't see it, I'm not going to claim it. He's a good defensive player and that helps to make him a viable selection but he doesn't seem to be able to find outside ball in space to be a real attacking threat as a wingman.

The only other argument that I'd make in favour of retaining Long is that when he played two games this year he looked like he was worthy of the standard.

I'd be disappointed to see Long de-listed but it would hardly be an unjustifiable decision.
 

BrunoV

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And, surely we switch Draper and Houlahan.

Draper deserves the promotion even if it is just a matter of form over substance.
 
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jmoo wan

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I'll premise this by saying that, as is not always the case, I want Long to come good because of who he is. Who doesn't like the romance of the son of a great player of a club continuing the legacy?

Hell, I both think that he will and want Jack Silvagni to make it and for his brother to join him. What could be better than Essendon with a Fletcher, Long, Daniher and maybe even a Neagle breaking the heart of a Silvagni-led Carlton in big matches before 90-odd thousand people at the MCG? Neagle aside, they are the memories as a child that had me hooked on footy.

On Long, I don't believe for a second that the club has been easy on him because he is Michael's son and because of the story. I assume that list management will have been prepared to persist with Jake because he clearly has his father's raw ability and that makes for special players. He's got the freaky ball handling, ability to think in 360 degrees no matter how little space he has, speed, agility, etc and unlike Jay Neagle, for example, Long has no apparent issue with professionalism and training standards, etc.

I believe that knowing what we know about Micheal justifies persistence with Jake given what Jake has shown. I think that is a very different thing to a decision to retain Jake based on emotion. You couldn't have applied the same rationale to persist with Jobe, for example, who was nothing like Tim and had showed virtually nothing by the end of his third year.

The problem I now have is that there will be a post in almost the exact same terms from about this time last year and, having watched almost every game Jake has played this year, there has been no apparent improvement in his game. That does mean he hasn't "been working on things" on request from the coaches but if I can't see it, I'm not going to claim it. He's a good defensive player and that helps to make him a viable selection but he doesn't seem to be able to find outside ball in space to be a real attacking threat as a wingman.

The only other argument that I'd make in favour of retaining Long is that when he played two games this year he looked like he was worthy of the standard.

I'd be disappointed to see Long de-listed but it would hardly be an unjustifiable decision.
this post was quite the roller coaster. i’m glad i rode it though.
 

un_eggs

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Our top 32 players contending for best 22 are as good as we’ve had in nearly 20 years. Looking at their talent vs their demonstrated ability the sky’s the limit. Below I have listed this comparison for each player. Using the good old reliable ratings system of A-E I have rated their talent firstly (ie the snippets of ability at the highest level and on the training track) and secondly I have rated the ability they have demonstrated at AFL level at a relatively consistent peak. Some players such as Bags go beyond their talent through sheer endeavour while players like Zaharakis fall slightly short of their talent. The ability rating is not meant to reflect their career but moreso how they have performed at their best in a fair timeframe such as Joe’s 2017 or Franga’s last handful of games.

Saad - B+/B+ (Is at the level you’d expect. If he makes it to an A he’ll be an All Aus selection)

Hooker - B+/A (At his best he plays above his talent)

Francis - A+/B (Will he match his talent? *licks lips*)

McKenna - B/C+ (The way he is tracking I reckon he could go well past his talent)

Hurley - A/A (Consistent beast mode would see him A+)

Gleeson - C+/C (Has a level to climb to be considered accomplished but I still hold out hope that there is a Corey Enright in there somewhere)

McGrath - A/C (We’ve seen the possibilities with him. Now he needs to bring it consistently at a high peak)

Shiel - A/A (I reckon our club could get him to A+)

Merrett - A/A (I can see him going up another level to top handful of mids in the comp)

Zaharakis - B+/B (I hope Zaka can still match his talent but you can’t be too unhappy with his solid career thus far)

Daniher - A+/A (Joe hasn’t had an A grade career but he has demonstrated an A grade ability in his All Aus year. Injury free and straight kicking could give us our superstar forward.)

Stringer - A+/B+ (B+ when at Bulldogs. Would have to work his ass off to reach his talent. Imagine if he did...)

McDonald-Tippungwuti - B+/C+ (I would be happy with a B level from Walla. I don’t think he’ll have the consistency to match his talent)

McKernan - C+/D+ (If we consistently get the C+ version of Smack we will be very hard to beat)

Fantasia - A/B+ (I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that his talent is absolute top notch. When he has been at a B+ level output he is our talisman)

Bellchambers - B/C+ (Has not been a dominant ruckman but more than fills his role)

Heppell - B+/A (Has Hep got another level in him? I don’t think his talent will ever see him bracketed with the very best mids but tidying up his disposal would help)

Smith - B+/A (His workrate lifts him above his talent. He was All Aus level this year)

Langford - B+/C+ ( I’m undecided on whether he can eventually be considered an A level talent one day. His kicking is a treat and once he starts to really influence games consistently he’ll match his talent)

Myers - B/C (it’s a fair effort to jump from a demonstrated ability of a D to a C. I’d give him ‘most improved’...)

Parish - B/C (Would we be happy to have him as a solid B rated depth mid? I’m hoping there’s more talent to display and that he can then realise it)

Ridley - C+/D (On exposed talent he looks a player but I’m expecting that there’s a much more talented player inside waiting to get out)

Ambrose - E+/C (His peak ability, when fit, is as a C quality shutdown role player. Has had to work harder than most)

Stewart - B/C (His higher talent, compared to Smack, is based on footy smarts. If we’re patient I think he’ll be a great foil for Joe)

Laverde - D+/E+ (One good game and not a lot of exposure to a talent that is probably lurking there somewhere)

Begley - C/D (Another with some more lurking talent to reveal)

Guelfi - C/D+ (Can potentially play above his exposed talent due to his great attitude)

Baguley - D+/C+ (Like Ambrose has worked hard which brings admiration)

Redman - D+/D (Finally seen enough to know we have something to work with)

Brown - C+/C+ (He gives us what you’d expect)

Hartley - C+/D (Can kick, can mark, can do brilliant 1 percenters and control the backline at VFL level. He is truly a talent but seems to flounder at times at the highest level)

Mutch - D+/E+ (Not a lot of demonstrated ability at the highest level but has shown glimpses of his talent)

While most haven’t reached anywhere near what their talent suggests that leaves a lot of hope for significant improvement. There are also a handful that haven’t even shown us their true talent such as Lav, Begs and Ridley. Surely this squad can get us deep into finals.
 
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kelvin_sheedy

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Can someone please tell me why Long is still on the list? Exactly the same boat as Jackson Merrett last year. There is absolutely no chance he'll make it.

We've got a better chance of picking a random number in the draft out of a hat and getting a player. Go the draft and see if we can unearth a late pick/rookie special.
 

Shane Heard

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Can someone please tell me why Long is still on the list? Exactly the same boat as Jackson Merrett last year. There is absolutely no chance he'll make it.

We've got a better chance of picking a random number in the draft out of a hat and getting a player. Go the draft and see if we can unearth a late pick/rookie special.
Because Long possesses silky, slick, polished skills and has genuine talent that can be further developed.

Jackson had gone has far as he could go with his skills and awareness at league level.
 

Yoda_

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Because Long possesses silky, slick, polished skills and has genuine talent that can be further developed.

Jackson had gone has far as he could go with his skills and awareness at league level.
What’s different between Long and Jackson?

Merrett was doing exceptionally well at VL level at one stage, Long is barely passable
 
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Houlahan seems like a guy who was the star of his underage forward lines, kicked a lot of goals and took a lot of hangers without ever having to try too hard. And then found it takes a much more well rounded game than he is capable of in order to thrive at a decent level.

Oh hang on, I'm describing myself.
 
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