List Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

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Bunk Moreland

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I actually think our list is very strong.

Our issue is taking advantage of it with a solid gameplan and coaching that uses it properly.

Call me cynical but I remain utterly unconvinced we’re going anywhere with this strategy / approach. Games like yesterday just show it.
 

eth-dog

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I think they knew we where short in areas hence we are trying to use Langford in the middle. We are pushing McGrath into the middle. I think what is hurting us now are the following.

Injuries. Daniher going down , Razz missing so many games and Laverde continually breaking down. With those three playing at their best we would be a much different side. Begley to a minor degree as well.

Parish getting too many games in his first year and being able to just chase the footy rather than learning more about his craft. Has slowed the development.

McGrath learning midfield on the job.

Not actually drafting players who actually where junior midfielders. A few selections where we opted to try and turn someone into something else.

The draft penalties. Could have been so much more with our first and second round picks to go along with drafting Merritt and Fantaisia.
Imagine having Cripps and Lobb beside them.
 

BrunoV

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I actually think our list is very strong.

Our issue is taking advantage of it with a solid gameplan and coaching that uses it properly.

Call me cynical but I remain utterly unconvinced we’re going anywhere with this strategy / approach. Games like yesterday just show it.

Did like but this post is so on point I need to be repeating myself.

A ridiculously large percentage of our talent, reflecting the investment made on draft day, is skewed and stuck in parts of the ground playing roles that we either dont ues (e.g. forward flankers) or which are already stacked (e.g. back flankers).

No discernable plan for these guys except to fit a square peg in a round hole which has worked superbly for Langford's development for all but 10 weeks of the last 3 seasons.

Burn Laverde at every opportunity. No selecting him when fit. Selecting him when not fit. Couldnt even pick him when we were rubbish at the start of the year because he'd played a game in a month.

Dropped Ridley after round 1 or 2 or whatever it was. That was unforgivable.

We pick a midfield which has a number 1 plan to basically throw the ball 1m to 7:00 without even thinking. Completely useless when we're not in space. The only team in the AFL that doesnt play an extractor or two or three.

Using Stringer and Daniher as though we have two of them. Not supporting either with complimentary selections.

The best excuse we can now make is injury but they told us how they wanted to line up at the start of the year. It's always injury.

No CEO of any major company would survive doing the stuff Worsfold and co do. You could only sell it to a board of directors and executive management who dont actually understand the core product of the business which is the sport itself.

How could Dodoro and Worsold satisfy any sensible person that they have the same vision for the list? We have a guy selecting talent the coach does not want to use.

Other than that we are an elite team at carving up a **** opponent which cannot defend the ground. Just what survives in finals.

Lots of reasons to be positiv because I know I've never seen this before...
 
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I actually think our list is very strong.

Our issue is taking advantage of it with a solid gameplan and coaching that uses it properly.

Call me cynical but I remain utterly unconvinced we’re going anywhere with this strategy / approach. Games like yesterday just show it.
Our list is actually very strong. Beyond losing, what really hurts is watching a talented team not able to fully deliver. When the head coach constantly talks about being not yet a top team - then they will play like they are not a top team. If you talk of making the 8 you will think 6-8. Time to believe you are top 4. What would sheds at his best say? He’s been given a good list, good age profile, forward traded picks for good midfield. Time to deliver. It’s now all about coaching...
 

Bunk Moreland

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Did like but this post is so on point I need to be repeating myself.

A ridiculously large percentage of our talent, reflecting the investment made on draft day, is skewed and stuck in parts of the ground playing roles that we either dont ues (e.g. forward flankers) or which are already stacked (e.g. back flankers).

No discernable plan for these guys except to fit a square peg in a round hole which has worked superbly for Langford's development for all but 10 weeks of the last 3 seasons.

Burn Laverde at every opportunity. No selecting him when fit. Selecting him when not fit. Couldnt even pick him when we were rubbish at the start of the year because he'd played a game in a month.

Dropped Ridley after round 1 or 2 or whatever it was. That was unforgivable.

We pick a midfield which has a number 1 plan to basically throw the ball 1m to 7:00 without even thinking. Completely useless when we're not in space. The only team in the AFL that doesnt play an extractor or two or three.

Using Stringer and Daniher as though we have two of them. Not supporting either with complimentary selections.

The best excuse we can now make is injury but they told us how they wanted to line up at the start of the year. It's always injury.

No CEO of any major company would survive doing the stuff Worsfold and co do. You could only sell it to a board of directors and executive management who dont actually understand the core product of the business which is the sport itself.

How could Dodoro and Worsold satisfy any sensible person that they have the same vision for the list? We have a guy selecting talent the coach does not want to use.

Other than that we are an elite team at carving up a **** opponent which cannot defend the ground. Just what survives in finals.

Lots of reasons to be positiv because I know I've never seen this before...
I’ve gone into it more in the Worsfold thread.

I fear for the ability of this group to achieve what they want. And that’s not down to list management, imo.
 

Red Black and Blue

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The list is strong as in number of high calibre players but not balanced. Stating what everyone knows; we have no wingers or hard nosed extractors. Until we have balance we won't be able to implement a consistent effective system and simply rely on talent getting us over the line.
 
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Red Black and Blue

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Well, it's being recorded.

Top side all dominate and we're bottom 4.

It's called post-clearance contested ball. That's what shows our midfield for what it is.
Where can we find this stat? Stats generally don't mean a lot but that is a great one. Up there with scores per inside footy offensive/defensively as genuinely indicative of something useful.
 

Lore

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Where can we find this stat? Stats generally don't mean a lot but that is a great one. Up there with scores per inside footy offensive/defensively as genuinely indicative of something useful.
Reading articles, or tweeting @ChampionData and asking nicely. Actually I think they have a bigfooty account, maybe they'll be nice enough to elaborate for us? Where does Essendon stand on pre- and post-clearance contested ball?
 

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eth-dog

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Where can we find this stat? Stats generally don't mean a lot but that is a great one. Up there with scores per inside footy offensive/defensively as genuinely indicative of something useful.
I don't think scores per inside 50 is all that hot. Goals per inside 50 is the important one for me. Now this probably shouldn't be done right now, but I will anyway, the AFL ranked in this regard:

Geelong: 27.8%
GWS: 26.8%
Collingwood: 23.9%
Brisbane: 23.5%
West Coast: 23.2%
Hawthorne: 23.2%
Essendon: 23.1%
Sydney: 22.7%
North Melbourne: 22.3%
Carlton: 22.1%
Fremantle: 21.6%
Adelaide: 21.3%
St. Kilda: 21.1%
Port Adelaide: 20.9%
Richmond: 20.7%
Western Bulldogs: 18.6%
Melbourne: 18.1%
Gold Coast: 17.2%

AFL average is around the 22.1% mark. Defensively:

Fremantle: 16.9%
Geelong: 17.5%
Adelaide: 18.1%
West Coast: 19.9%
Collingwood: 21.3%
Carlton: 21.4%
Sydney: 21.6%
Hawthorn: 21.8%
Gold Coast: 21.9%
GWS: 22.2%
Essendon: 22.4%
St. Kilda: 22.9%
Western Bulldogs: 22.3%
Port Adelaide: 24.8%
Brisbane: 25.1%
Richmond: 25.3%
North Melbourne: 25.4%
Melbourne: 26.5%
 

Red Black and Blue

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I don't think scores per inside 50 is all that hot. Goals per inside 50 is the important one for me.
I like scores per inside 50 because it says a little about of how often your forwards are winning contests and about your efficiency of chance creation. Goals per inside 50 is more about skill execution; for instance we missed five easy shots from the corridor and kicked Stringer kicked two from the boundary, but the stats don't tell you that. Skill errors happen and are more forgivable than a failure of system to generate chances.
 
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eth-dog

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I like scores per inside 50 because it says a little about of how often your forwards are winning contests and about your efficiency of chance creation. Goals per inside 50 is more about skill execution; for instance we missed five easy shots from the corridor and kicked Stringer kicked two from the boundary, but the stats don't tell you that. Skill errors happen and are more forgivable than a failure of system to generate chances.
I don't like scores because it includes inefficiency as you say, plus there are always rushed behinds which doesn't necessarily mean you make chances. Goals show how well you make and take chances.
 

ant555

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Lets really look at it right now. First up I will say I think a good percentage over rate where we are at. I have been saying all along we are a middle of the road list that is in the 6-10 ladder area. I do not buy into the media hype as we have not proven to be able to master the defensive side of the game for over 10 years and it does not seem to be in the DNA to be able to play a full team defence week in and week out. For mine it is the biggest hurdle in taking the next step.

Injuries. They have hit hard. Too many of the forwards have been injured for lengthy periods and we have not been able to settle a forward line up into place. You only have to look at Richmond now to work out how injury can upset things. 2017 no injury massive year. 2019 injury to key players and a few depth players equals back to the middle of the pack. I still think having McKernan injured hurts us despite him being a B grade and of course not having 2017 Joe leaves a massive hole. Laverde being injured all the time robs us of a player who plays with a bit of hard edge. Razz being in and out does not help.
Gleeson and Stewart injured hurts as well even if having both up and running simply puts selection pressure on.
Draper going down when in an upwards spiral is also a massive blow.

Leadership. The captain busts a gut every week and they all train hard but to me they are a coffee club leadership group too matey and warm and fuzzy and not enough hard edge play your role and drive a ruthless culture.

Player form right now.
McKenna has not gone on. Turning over too much footy in the back half.
Walla not effecting games week in and week out.
Shiel not being able to kick at over 60%.
Joe only being a fraction of what he was so far.
Zaharakis having limited impact all year.
Francis struggling. His strong points are his marking (biggest), skill and general decision making and being generally good at ground level. However he is not overly athletic is slow and lacks in endurance and second efforts. He is a bit of a one trick pony right now. When he is not marking it he looks very ordinary.
Smith doing about 70% of what he was doing last season.
Parish still looking to take the next step from good young player to reliable top 50 midfielder.
Langford not being the midfielder they wanted to turn him into.
Myers not being the player he may have been.
McGrath having a few patchy week while learning on the job.
Stringer not converting easy set shots.
Bellchambers being a middle to bottom half of the comp ruck with no back up close to his level.

You can not have this many issues and injury and expect to be a top 4 side.
 

vass44

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I think the list is still in good shape - it’s the continued selection of players like Baguley, Myers and to a lesser extent Zaharakis who just keep getting games despite lack of ability and/or form that is the concern. We need to do what the Hawks did with Roughhead with these guys - drop them to the reserves if they aren’t playing well - sends a strong and simple message to the rest of the group - contribute and play well or you are out. Why these guys keep getting gifted games is beyond me


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