List Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

Vindicater

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Posts
6,612
Likes
7,726
AFL Club
Essendon
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years
Redman - 2 years

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kakkle

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Posts
13,709
Likes
20,524
Location
Melbourne/Los Angeles
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Los Angeles Dodgers
Lets really look at it right now. First up I will say I think a good percentage over rate where we are at. I have been saying all along we are a middle of the road list that is in the 6-10 ladder area. I do not buy into the media hype as we have not proven to be able to master the defensive side of the game for over 10 years and it does not seem to be in the DNA to be able to play a full team defence week in and week out. For mine it is the biggest hurdle in taking the next step.

Injuries. They have hit hard. Too many of the forwards have been injured for lengthy periods and we have not been able to settle a forward line up into place. You only have to look at Richmond now to work out how injury can upset things. 2017 no injury massive year. 2019 injury to key players and a few depth players equals back to the middle of the pack. I still think having McKernan injured hurts us despite him being a B grade and of course not having 2017 Joe leaves a massive hole. Laverde being injured all the time robs us of a player who plays with a bit of hard edge. Razz being in and out does not help.
Gleeson and Stewart injured hurts as well even if having both up and running simply puts selection pressure on.
Draper going down when in an upwards spiral is also a massive blow.

Leadership. The captain busts a gut every week and they all train hard but to me they are a coffee club leadership group too matey and warm and fuzzy and not enough hard edge play your role and drive a ruthless culture.

Player form right now.
McKenna has not gone on. Turning over too much footy in the back half.
Walla not effecting games week in and week out.
Shiel not being able to kick at over 60%.
Joe only being a fraction of what he was so far.
Zaharakis having limited impact all year.
Francis struggling. His strong points are his marking (biggest), skill and general decision making and being generally good at ground level. However he is not overly athletic is slow and lacks in endurance and second efforts. He is a bit of a one trick pony right now. When he is not marking it he looks very ordinary.
Smith doing about 70% of what he was doing last season.
Parish still looking to take the next step from good young player to reliable top 50 midfielder.
Langford not being the midfielder they wanted to turn him into.
Myers not being the player he may have been.
McGrath having a few patchy week while learning on the job.
Stringer not converting easy set shots.
Bellchambers being a middle to bottom half of the comp ruck with no back up close to his level.

You can not have this many issues and injury and expect to be a top 4 side.

Then again you look at Collingwood last year. They almost won the flag with Howe & Goldsack as their KPD. That's ******* insane. Exception to the rule I guess, but it can be done. The matter is, the club can't (won't) defend as a team or simply work hard enough.
 

ant555

The Oracle
Joined
May 4, 2004
Posts
16,737
Likes
16,625
Location
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years
Redman - 2 years

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)
Would be keeping Brown for another year. He has played some good games despite him being a B grade third forward / defender.
The rest I could deal with.
 

ant555

The Oracle
Joined
May 4, 2004
Posts
16,737
Likes
16,625
Location
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
Then again you look at Collingwood last year. They almost won the flag with Howe & Goldsack as their KPD. That's ******* insane. Exception to the rule I guess, but it can be done. The matter is, the club can't (won't) defend as a team or simply work hard enough.
They covered for the loss of key defenders by defending as a team.
We would have won last night and against the Saints if our team defence was better and we may well have beaten the Pies as well if it had of been tighter in the first quarter. I am certain we would be at least 5-3 with close losses against Collingwood and Geelong if we had a better handle on basic team defence.
 

MiguelM

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Posts
1,323
Likes
1,044
AFL Club
Essendon
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years
Redman - 2 years

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)
Agree with all but no way Brown gets cut.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2016
Posts
96
Likes
71
AFL Club
Geelong
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years
Redman - 2 years

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)

redman 4 years
 

citizen-erased

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Posts
15,226
Likes
10,978
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years +2
Redman - 2 years +2

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)
Agree with most of that.
Im not sure i'd cut Brown given what he's shown in patches. If Joey goes down, Brown can come in for him and do a job.
But that doesn't excuse us from looking for a 3rd tall forward. We are too short in the forward line.

Francis i wouldnt trade. Play him back where he belongs. That patch in 2018 wasn't a fluke. That's what he can do. Can we bloody get him there.

If we can i'd give Parish and Redman 4 years each. Both are long term parts of our future.

I would be aggressively looking to trade some senior depth for whatever we can get
Zaharakis
McKenna (Brissy were keen a couple of years ago)
Hurley - get us back into the early 1st rd (Bonar and our 1st back from GWS would be ideal)

These are players we won't miss as much as other areas and have currency we need.

Stop with the flankers and small mids
Get a tall mid and tall forward.
A tackling fiend would be nice too.
 

adsla69k

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Posts
1,992
Likes
1,288
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Trade out anyone to get enough cap to get Grundy in and build around him. We need a decent ruckman for once. Give him 1.5mil a season he is pace setter.
Trade Zaha, Myers, Langford, Leverde, etc use cap space on Grundy and fill the remaining spots with kids from the rookie draft.
 

Bombermania

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Posts
8,235
Likes
4,105
Location
Counting premiership cups
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Non that play Essendon
It is hard to move on contracted players unless they are wanted elsewhere so I won't talk about them.

Our uncontracted players though I would like to see.

Ambrose - 1 year
Baguley - Cut
Myers - Cut
Brown - Cut
D Clarke - Cut (maybe re-rookie)
Francis - Trade
Guelfi - 1 year
Hartley - Cut
Tippa - 2 years
Parish - 2 years
Redman - 2 years

As for the rookies

Clarke - Cut
Dea - Cut
Draper - 2 years (maybe upgrade)
Jok - 1 year
Long - Cut
McNeice - Cut
Mynott - 1 year (maybe upgrade)
Agree with this except for Francis, he has shown enough to stay so no to trading him, I would trade Zakka ahead of Francis, and keep Brown for depth.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

adsla69k

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Posts
1,992
Likes
1,288
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Play younger players in the roles they should be in and fit the pieces together after that. Parish in the middle, Langford up forward, McGrath off half back, McKenna on the wing and bring Ridley in for goodness sake!
 

owen87

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Posts
2,928
Likes
3,549
AFL Club
Essendon
Think Myers and Baguely should be done, Clarke is what he is - emergency ruck / tall forward cover - hard to be too critical that he’s not all that good given we’re running an injury list to our talls a mile long.

Brown stays, he works his ass off to offer a marking target up the ground every week, kicks straight, and actually leads at the ball. Plus can play at either end.

Zaharakis needs to go back to the VFL and either show he can bust a gut every week like a Gaff, or stay there.

Don’t mind Ham playing in Baguely’s spot for now, he runs hard to constantly offer an option and his disposal is neat enough.

Think with Draper injured it’s shown how thin we are for young tall forward / ruck talent, and we aren’t going to be much better off in 2 or so years down back if Zerk Thatcher and Hartley can’t fill the void of Hooker and Hurley.

Laverde is probably worth another year, but his constant run of injury is putting him in the realm of plenty of other talented players who never quite made it due to their bodies, not lack of talent.

Long we need to make a call on at the end of this year, either he plays AFL or he goes. D. Clarke and Mynott probably have another 12 months in them if their VFL form is strong come the end of the year.

Like to see;

Out: Baguely, Dea, Long. Calls made on McNiece, Laverde and Langford.

Bring in one or two SPP and Worpel types who will compete hard and are natural midfielders, not flankers, use Dodoro’s knack for spotting talls to grab some late to chance on development.
 

Seagrave_Holmes

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Posts
3,362
Likes
4,868
Location
Rand McNally
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Australian Test Ball Tampering Team
A lot of our players are either just coasting through their careers (Zaharakis), chronically underperforming (Myers) or just getting games from a lack of better options (Bellchambers).

Polarising players:

Langford - not a mid but should be persisted with as a marking half forward. Keep.

Brown- isn't a super star, he is reliable, works hard and most importantly he can kick straight. Worth keeping on the list.

Paddy Ambrose - not the most dynamic user of the ball but he is safe and shows physical hardness. Has elite endurance and as a point of difference to any key defenders on the list. Gives us a good match up for the aerobic forwards. Keep keep keep.

Bellchambers - can't stand this glacial cream puff. Unless we can lure a number 1# ruck from elsewhere we might need him for a bit longer unfortunately.

Dylan Clarke - a rare young mid on our list who isn't built like a twig. Kicking isn't great but I would give him another 12 months because there is so much else to like about him.

Trade:

Zaharakis - peaheart. Sends a message to the rest of the group.

Gleeson - behind Redman, Ridley and Francis for a spot in the backline. An extra pick for him third could be handy unless the club the has plans for Ridley, Redman and Francis in other spots on the ground, then he should stay.

Hartley - handy player but doesn't look like getting a game anytime soon. Perhaps trade him or just delist so he can get to a new club easily.

Delist:

Long - should have been delisted two years ago.
Dea - thanks for the service, no longer needed.
Myers - the embodiment of all things wrong with this club over the last 10-15 years.
McNeice - battler, not up to it.
Bags - thanks for giving 100% each week, no longer up to it.
Zac Clarke - only saw his debut game for the club. Absolutely nothing to be gained by keeping him around.

Rookie list:

Laverde - last chance to salvage a career from the rookie list, otherwise delist.

Draft:

No more small/medium forwards or small/medium defenders, we need some tall timber across the ground and another genuine mid.
 

quotemokc

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Posts
12,198
Likes
13,417
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Atlanta Falcons/Winnipeg Jets
A lot of our players are either just coasting through their careers (Zaharakis), chronically underperforming (Myers) or just getting games from a lack of better options (Bellchambers).

Polarising players:

Langford - not a mid but should be persisted with as a marking half forward. Keep.

Brown- isn't a super star, he is reliable, works hard and most importantly he can kick straight. Worth keeping on the list.

Paddy Ambrose - not the most dynamic user of the ball but he is safe and shows physical hardness. Has elite endurance and as a point of difference to any key defenders on the list. Gives us a good match up for the aerobic forwards. Keep keep keep.

Bellchambers - can't stand this glacial cream puff. Unless we can lure a number 1# ruck from elsewhere we might need him for a bit longer unfortunately.

Dylan Clarke - a rare young mid on our list who isn't built like a twig. Kicking isn't great but I would give him another 12 months because there is so much else to like about him.

Trade:

Zaharakis - peaheart. Sends a message to the rest of the group.

Gleeson - behind Redman, Ridley and Francis for a spot in the backline. An extra pick for him third could be handy unless the club the has plans for Ridley, Redman and Francis in other spots on the ground, then he should stay.

Hartley - handy player but doesn't look like getting a game anytime soon. Perhaps trade him or just delist so he can get to a new club easily.

Delist:

Long - should have been delisted two years ago.
Dea - thanks for the service, no longer needed.
Myers - the embodiment of all things wrong with this club over the last 10-15 years.
McNeice - battler, not up to it.
Bags - thanks for giving 100% each week, no longer up to it.
Zac Clarke - only saw his debut game for the club. Absolutely nothing to be gained by keeping him around.

Rookie list:

Laverde - last chance to salvage a career from the rookie list, otherwise delist.

Draft:

No more small/medium forwards or small/medium defenders, we need some tall timber across the ground and another genuine mid.
Gleeson plays pretty much the same role we are expecting Francis to and so far he has proven to be a better player
 

Vindicater

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Posts
6,612
Likes
7,726
AFL Club
Essendon
A lot of our players are either just coasting through their careers (Zaharakis), chronically underperforming (Myers) or just getting games from a lack of better options (Bellchambers).

Polarising players:

Langford - not a mid but should be persisted with as a marking half forward. Keep.

Brown- isn't a super star, he is reliable, works hard and most importantly he can kick straight. Worth keeping on the list.

Paddy Ambrose - not the most dynamic user of the ball but he is safe and shows physical hardness. Has elite endurance and as a point of difference to any key defenders on the list. Gives us a good match up for the aerobic forwards. Keep keep keep.

Bellchambers - can't stand this glacial cream puff. Unless we can lure a number 1# ruck from elsewhere we might need him for a bit longer unfortunately.

Dylan Clarke - a rare young mid on our list who isn't built like a twig. Kicking isn't great but I would give him another 12 months because there is so much else to like about him.

Trade:

Zaharakis - peaheart. Sends a message to the rest of the group.

Gleeson - behind Redman, Ridley and Francis for a spot in the backline. An extra pick for him third could be handy unless the club the has plans for Ridley, Redman and Francis in other spots on the ground, then he should stay.

Hartley - handy player but doesn't look like getting a game anytime soon. Perhaps trade him or just delist so he can get to a new club easily.

Delist:

Long - should have been delisted two years ago.
Dea - thanks for the service, no longer needed.
Myers - the embodiment of all things wrong with this club over the last 10-15 years.
McNeice - battler, not up to it.
Bags - thanks for giving 100% each week, no longer up to it.
Zac Clarke - only saw his debut game for the club. Absolutely nothing to be gained by keeping him around.

Rookie list:

Laverde - last chance to salvage a career from the rookie list, otherwise delist.

Draft:

No more small/medium forwards or small/medium defenders, we need some tall timber across the ground and another genuine mid.
Gleeson if he comes back like he was playing towards the end of 2017 is ahead of Francis by a fair margin.

No body is going to trade for Zaka or Hartley.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Posts
73,840
Likes
33,300
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
A lot of our players are either just coasting through their careers (Zaharakis), chronically underperforming (Myers) or just getting games from a lack of better options (Bellchambers).

Polarising players:

Langford - not a mid but should be persisted with as a marking half forward. Keep.

Brown- isn't a super star, he is reliable, works hard and most importantly he can kick straight. Worth keeping on the list.

Paddy Ambrose - not the most dynamic user of the ball but he is safe and shows physical hardness. Has elite endurance and as a point of difference to any key defenders on the list. Gives us a good match up for the aerobic forwards. Keep keep keep.

Bellchambers - can't stand this glacial cream puff. Unless we can lure a number 1# ruck from elsewhere we might need him for a bit longer unfortunately.

Dylan Clarke - a rare young mid on our list who isn't built like a twig. Kicking isn't great but I would give him another 12 months because there is so much else to like about him.

Trade:

Zaharakis - peaheart. Sends a message to the rest of the group.

Gleeson - behind Redman, Ridley and Francis for a spot in the backline. An extra pick for him third could be handy unless the club the has plans for Ridley, Redman and Francis in other spots on the ground, then he should stay.

Hartley - handy player but doesn't look like getting a game anytime soon. Perhaps trade him or just delist so he can get to a new club easily.

Delist:

Long - should have been delisted two years ago.
Dea - thanks for the service, no longer needed.
Myers - the embodiment of all things wrong with this club over the last 10-15 years.
McNeice - battler, not up to it.
Bags - thanks for giving 100% each week, no longer up to it.
Zac Clarke - only saw his debut game for the club. Absolutely nothing to be gained by keeping him around.

Rookie list:

Laverde - last chance to salvage a career from the rookie list, otherwise delist.

Draft:

No more small/medium forwards or small/medium defenders, we need some tall timber across the ground and another genuine mid.
I would have said Zaharakis was the embodiment of what's wrong with our club over the past decade. Soft front runner that goes to water under pressure.
 

_Swoon

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Posts
3,915
Likes
5,862
Location
live at the Greek
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Dallas Cowboys
Gleeson played all of ten good games, loose at half back 18 months ago. If he's really ahead of Francis then he needs to prove it all over again. Also noting it took Gleeson 4.5 years to actually put that form together.
 

Red Black and Blue

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Posts
17,765
Likes
9,681
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Everton, Storm, Victory
We certainly need to change something structurally. I'm a big fan of trying Ridley and Gleeson as wingers. We get very little from Zaharakis, Smith and Parish playing there currently.

Part of our poor transition is our midfielders don't lead well and with the exception of Heppell are incredible poor over head. Having them there would help elevate the lack of presenting from HF and give us another option outside of counter attacks off half back that often go over the midfield altogether. Another thing I really like about them is tidy and effective disposal without needing to take risks. Good at quickly hitting the 45 that Shiel, Myers, Parish and Heppell struggle with.

They also offer natural defensive positioning, that can help both set up the wall at half forward for repeat entries without rolling up the entirety of the defence allowing protection down back and help with general defensive transition.
 
Top Bottom