List Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,438
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Essendon
Apparently we are last in the league for total distance covered, and second last for total distance covered at speed :think:


Who knows what to make of that data.

No current top sides are high on any markers. Bottom sides all high. Richmond is a bit of an outlier and I'd like to see a breakdown of wins v losses (though I doubt it changes that much).

All it really shows is that bad sides generally run more.

Top speed is also generally reactive, long chasing and often ineffective (allowing the chaser to reach top speed).

I'd love to use the numbers to flame the general running power of our midfield but they cant be used in that way.
 

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Maxabillions

The don
Mar 17, 2018
708
1,031
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Who knows what to make of that data.

No current top sides are high on any markers. Bottom sides all high. Richmond is a bit of an outlier and I'd like to see a breakdown of wins v losses (though I doubt it changes that much).

All it really shows is that bad sides generally run more.

Top speed is also generally reactive, long chasing and often ineffective (allowing the chaser to reach top speed).

I'd love to use the numbers to flame the general running power of our midfield but they cant be used in that way.
So does that mean we're a good team? Or a bad team not running hard enough?
 

Mikevk123

Senior List
Jun 25, 2019
195
95
AFL Club
Essendon
Our list needs depth and this upcoming off season is going to be a hard one.

List Changes
Gone: Matt Dea, Mark Baguley, Michael Hartley, Jake Long, Luke Lavender, Zac Clarke, David Myers, Ben Mcneice.

Trade: Sam Draper and Orazio Fantasia.

Draft hand: 2 second rounders.

Trade orazio to port for 1st/Billy Frampton
Trade Draper to St Kilda for second rounder.
Sign up Sam Jacobs through FA.
Trade Ports first pick and St Kilda’s second rounder to Gold Coast For jack Martin and Pick 14.

Leaves us with Pick 14 tied to Gold Coast, our Second Round Pick and the GWS Second Round Selection From the Shiel Trade.

We loose Orazio who is probably our best forward as well as future Great Ruckman.

We bring in Jack Martin who is a good capable player and can turn it up. As well as A developing ruckman who can play Forward in Billy Frampton. As well as big Sam Jacobs who is close to the end but has another year or two left. Will provide support to Bellchambers. Includes a first round pick from Gold Coast currently pick 14. I think the suns won’t take the deal though.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,438
18,966
AFL Club
Essendon
So does that mean we're a good team? Or a bad team not running hard enough?

I am in little doubt that we dont run hard enough, and that the midfield lacks running power generally, but we also dont play a high intensity game between the arcs.

From what I can tell Tigers and Freo play highest tempo between the arcs and that is reasonably consisten with what has been produced.

I dont think the numbers themselves mean anything. Too many variables.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
75,120
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Melbourne
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Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
Our list needs depth and this upcoming off season is going to be a hard one.

List Changes
Gone: Matt Dea, Mark Baguley, Michael Hartley, Jake Long, Luke Lavender, Zac Clarke, David Myers, Ben Mcneice.

Trade: Sam Draper and Orazio Fantasia.

Draft hand: 2 second rounders.

Trade orazio to port for 1st/Billy Frampton
Trade Draper to St Kilda for second rounder.
Sign up Sam Jacobs through FA.
Trade Ports first pick and St Kilda’s second rounder to Gold Coast For jack Martin and Pick 14.

Leaves us with Pick 14 tied to Gold Coast, our Second Round Pick and the GWS Second Round Selection From the Shiel Trade.

We loose Orazio who is probably our best forward as well as future Great Ruckman.

We bring in Jack Martin who is a good capable player and can turn it up. As well as A developing ruckman who can play Forward in Billy Frampton. As well as big Sam Jacobs who is close to the end but has another year or two left. Will provide support to Bellchambers. Includes a first round pick from Gold Coast currently pick 14. I think the suns won’t take the deal though.
Neither will go
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
75,120
34,323
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Coburg Lions, All Boston sides
Okay, feel like doing a big arsed post again.

Re-sign:

3 years: Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Darcy Parish, Mason Redman, Sam Draper (promotion)
2 years: Dylan Clarke, Matt Guelfi
1 year: Mitchell Brown, Tom Jok, Trent Mynott, Will Snelling

Delist/retire: Ben McNiece, David Myers, Jake Long, Mark Baguley, Matthew Dea, Jordan Houlahan, Zach Clarke

Trade:

1. Michael Hartley for pick ~40 (Hawthorne)

Leaves us with 35 on the main list and 3 on the category A rookie list.

Draft:

27: Cooper Stephens (188 cm/83 kg inside midfielder, Geelong Falcons)
33: Jeremy Sharp (187/79 outside midfielder, East Fremantle)
40: Sam De Koning (200/85 key defender, Dandenong Stingrays)
45: Riley Bowman (198/89 forward/ruck, Essendon VFL)
63: Nino Lazzaro (190/83 half back, Essendon VFL)

Rookie Draft:

9: Mason Fletcher (200/83 Tall Utility, Calder Cannons)

Cat B: Ruck of some sort

Defence:

Key Defenders: Michael Hurley, Cale Hooker (fwd), Patrick Ambrose, Sam de Koning (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Aaron Francis (fwd), Mason Fletcher (fwd)
Small/Medium Defenders: Martin Gleeson, Mason Redman (mid), Adam Saad, Conor McKenna, Nino Lazzaro, Tom Jok (mid), David Zaharakis (mid)

Midfield:

Inside Midfielders: Darcy Parish, Devon Smith (fwd), Zach Merrett, Dylan Shiel, Kobe Mutch, Dyson Heppell, Matthew Guelfi (fwd), Dylan Clarke, Trent Mynott (fwd), Cooper Stephens, Will Snelling
Outside Midfielders: Brayden Ham (fwd), Andrew McGrath (def), Jordan Ridley (def), Kyle Langford (fwd), Jeremy Sharp
Rucks: Tom Bellchambers, Sam Draper, Riley Bowman (fwd), Cat B ruck

Forward:

Key Forwards: Joe Daniher, James Stewart (ruc), Jake Stringer (mid), Mitchell Brown (def), Noah Gown, Shaun McKernan (ruc)
Small/Medium Forwards: Orazio Fantasia (mid), Jayden Laverde, Josh Begley (mid), Irving Mosquito, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

Seniors:

Michael Hurley - Patrick Ambrose - Martin Gleeson
Conor McKenna - Cale Hooker - Adam Saad
Jordan Ridley - Dylan Clarke - Zachary Merrett
Orazio Fantasia - Joe Daniher - Devon Smith
Jayden Laverde - Jake Stringer - Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti
Tom Bellchambers - Dyson Heppell - Dylan Shiel
Andrew McGrath - Darcy Parish - Mason Redman - Shaun McKernan

Reserves:

Mason Fletcher - Sam de Koning - Nino Lazzaro
David Zaharakis - Brandon Zerk-Thatcher - Aaron Francis
Jeremy Sharp - Matthew Guelfi - Brayden Ham
Kyle Langford - James Stewart - Mitchell Brown
Irving Mosquito - Riley Bowman - Josh Begley
Sam Draper - Trent Mynott - Kobe Mutch

Noah Gown - Will Snelling - Cooper Stephens - Tom Jok - Cat B ruck
 
Last edited:

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McKennabomber

Senior List
Sep 8, 2015
250
295
AFL Club
Essendon
Okay, feel like doing a big arsed post again.

Re-sign:

3 years: Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Darcy Parish, Mason Redman, Sam Draper (promotion)
2 years: Dylan Clarke, Matt Guelfi
1 year: Mitchell Brown, Tom Jok, Trent Mynott, Will Snelling

Delist/retire: Ben McNiece, David Myers, Jake Long, Mark Baguley, Matthew Dea, Jordan Houlahan, Zach Clarke

Trade:

1. Michael Hartley for pick ~40 (Hawthorne)

Leaves us with 35 on the main list and 3 on the category A rookie list.

Draft:

27: Cooper Stephens (188 cm/83 kg inside midfielder, Geelong Falcons)
33: Jeremy Sharp (187/79 outside midfielder, East Fremantle)
40: Key defender (De Koning?)
45: Riley Bowman (198/89 forward/ruck, Essendon VFL)
63: Nino Lazzaro (190/83 half back, Essendon VFL)

Rookie Draft:

9: Mason Fletcher (200/83 Tall Utility, Calder Cannons)

Then look for a Category B ruck.

I read the article on the AFL site today about De Konning. I'm just curious what type of player he is and if he's in our draft range.
 

Bunk Moreland

Hall of Famer
Sep 22, 2011
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Originally went to post this in Clarke’s thread, but it probably belongs here.

The ruck situation really is a lesson in poor list management, let’s be honest.

I remember the rule was always you don’t go into a season without four ruckmen, because their form can be hot and cold (hard to recover when they’re in a slump) and they have a habit of getting hurt (hardly surprising given the crash and bash nature of the role).

We went in with three... the first two got hurt and Clarke is a long way off the level required.

Such was the poor decision in recruiting Clarke, it’s really like we’ve gone into the season with two ruckmen. Both of whom are now predictably injured.

There’s no way you can count McKernan as a ruckman given our shortage of key forwards, which we should have known with Daniher coming off a major injury - that’s now flared again.

We have to play Clarke right now, not sure we have another option.

With Bellchambers possibly retiring, Clarke not up to it and Draper maybe going, we could conceivably be in the market for four rucks this off season. At least three.

We need:

#1 Ruck: I’m not sure it’s Bellchambers any more, in which case we’ll need a genuine AFL ruckman who can step in Round 1.

The Next In Line: could potentially be #1 in 2020. Hopefully it’s Draper, if he leaves we need another.

The Emergency Option: at the moment it’s Clarke... though we probably should replace him with someone better

The Project: young ruck we can bring through. Don’t have one at the moment.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,438
18,966
AFL Club
Essendon
Originally went to post this in Clarke’s thread, but it probably belongs here.

The ruck situation really is a lesson in poor list management, let’s be honest.

I remember the rule was always you don’t go into a season without four ruckmen, because their form can be hot and cold (hard to recover when they’re in a slump) and they have a habit of getting hurt (hardly surprising given the crash and bash nature of the role).

We went in with three... the first two got hurt and Clarke is a long way off the level required.

Such was the poor decision in recruiting Clarke, it’s really like we’ve gone into the season with two ruckmen. Both of whom are now predictably injured.

There’s no way you can count McKernan as a ruckman given our shortage of key forwards, which we should have known with Daniher coming off a major injury - that’s now flared again.

We have to play Clarke right now, not sure we have another option.

With Bellchambers possibly retiring, Clarke not up to it and Draper maybe going, we could conceivably be in the market for four rucks this off season. At least three.

We need:

#1 Ruck: I’m not sure it’s Bellchambers any more, in which case we’ll need a genuine AFL ruckman who can step in Round 1.

The Next In Line: could potentially be #1 in 2020. Hopefully it’s Draper, if he leaves we need another.

The Emergency Option: at the moment it’s Clarke... though we probably should replace him with someone better

The Project: young ruck we can bring through. Don’t have one at the moment.


Dont forget that available evidence suggests the reason we recruited Clarke does appear to play him with Bellchambers (which is the role he played for Freo - second ruck to Sandi). If he was a first choice ruck he wouldnt have been punted from Freo at the point they needed him.

Really masterful strategy.

The Draper loss, however, is almost certainly wildly overstated as a realistic possibility.

I'd like to think we have Meek or Jones on the list together with Bowman and no Clarke next year.
 

Maxabillions

The don
Mar 17, 2018
708
1,031
AFL Club
Essendon
Originally went to post this in Clarke’s thread, but it probably belongs here.

The ruck situation really is a lesson in poor list management, let’s be honest.

I remember the rule was always you don’t go into a season without four ruckmen, because their form can be hot and cold (hard to recover when they’re in a slump) and they have a habit of getting hurt (hardly surprising given the crash and bash nature of the role).

We went in with three... the first two got hurt and Clarke is a long way off the level required.

Such was the poor decision in recruiting Clarke, it’s really like we’ve gone into the season with two ruckmen. Both of whom are now predictably injured.

There’s no way you can count McKernan as a ruckman given our shortage of key forwards, which we should have known with Daniher coming off a major injury - that’s now flared again.

We have to play Clarke right now, not sure we have another option.

With Bellchambers possibly retiring, Clarke not up to it and Draper maybe going, we could conceivably be in the market for four rucks this off season. At least three.

We need:

#1 Ruck: I’m not sure it’s Bellchambers any more, in which case we’ll need a genuine AFL ruckman who can step in Round 1.

The Next In Line: could potentially be #1 in 2020. Hopefully it’s Draper, if he leaves we need another.

The Emergency Option: at the moment it’s Clarke... though we probably should replace him with someone better

The Project: young ruck we can bring through. Don’t have one at the moment.
We also had two rucks retire unexpectedly
 

Bunk Moreland

Hall of Famer
Sep 22, 2011
30,567
58,935
Your girlfriend's dreams
AFL Club
Essendon
Dont forget that available evidence suggests the reason we recruited Clarke does appear to play him with Bellchambers (which is the role he played for Freo - second ruck to Sandi). If he was a first choice ruck he wouldnt have been punted from Freo at the point they needed him.

Really masterful strategy.

The Draper loss, however, is almost certainly wildly overstated as a realistic possibility.

I'd like to think we have Meek or Jones on the list together with Bowman and no Clarke next year.
The other question is whether you bother with the #4 project ruck. After losing Jenkins, if the same happens with Draper... you have to wonder whether it's worth developing them just for another club to come and take them when they're ready.
 

BrunoV

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2009
15,438
18,966
AFL Club
Essendon
The other question is whether you bother with the #4 project ruck. After losing Jenkins, if the same happens with Draper... you have to wonder whether it's worth developing them just for another club to come and take them when they're ready.

You definitely don't want 4 guys who are just ruckmen.

3 would be the limit because you can't develop 4 as there is only limited game time.

Definitely want some ruck/forward utilities.
 

Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,076
11,575
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
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Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
You definitely don't want 4 guys who are just ruckmen.

3 would be the limit because you can't develop 4 as there is only limited game time.

Definitely want some ruck/forward utilities.
Our inability to have a ruck/fwd does hurt the thought process of 4 ticks on the list.

Ideally two are playing seniors and two are in the VFL


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Yoda_

Brownlow Medallist
May 6, 2007
25,076
11,575
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
Is he though? Hard working flanker/wing that runs both ways. We don't have many.
Yeah, on second thoughts. A hard working HFF’er is exactly the sorta guy we need.

Really missed one yesterday. Would be curious to know his yo - yo results


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