List Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

Yoda_

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The way I see the ruck situation is we still have Tom Bellchabers. No world beater but competent #1. If we can grab a top end talent like Ryder for 2 years until Sam Draper can get back to full fitness, otherwise I would take a punt on a young, mature aged ruck (looks at Goddard or Bowman) as guys who could play right away but have enough upside to still taking for a medium > long term solution.

Have always thought that you need 4 ruck men on the list.

#1 (Tom Bellchambers) - clear cut, best ruckmen at the club, ideally in the 25 - 30 age bracket.
#2 (Zac Clarke) - pushing to be the #1 guy but not quite there yet. Either on the up (20 - 23) or on the down (28 - 33) who can still hold the #1 spot if required for a medium > long period.
#3 (Sam Draper) This is the critical one for us and has been for a long time. A developing kid who after 2 - 4 years in the system can begin to push the top 2 ruckmen at the club.
#4 (Luke Lavender) I'll take the hit on this one Lore as the long, long term ruck option who has plenty of upside. Ideally in the 18 - 21 year age bracket

More first ruck options and we are list heavy for rucks whilst people will bemoan that James Stewart, Michael Hartley &/or Joe Daniher appear to be ruck height, they aren't ruck capable imho. If they become ok as a second ruck but at the moment they are not.


Obvioulsy post this season we are sure to see the back of Zac Clarke whilst Draper's injury and the retirment of Lavender has seen us become thin across the board. I would think we can fill these ruck holes (even one for now [#2]) through free agency or those young rucks I listed.

If I had a perfect scenario I would grab Ryder for 2 years, he is capable as a fwd whilst filling in for TBC or I would be looking to trade in Billy Framppton (Port Adelaide) and also grab either Jerremy Goddard (Claremont - WAFL), Riley Bowman (Essendon - VFL) or Bailey Schmidt (Dandenong Stingrays/Frankston Dolphins - Vic) as a longer term option.

Ideally speaking, grabbing a Cat B rookie would be great for list spots (like what Collingwood did originally with Mason Cox) but wouldn't be opposed to sticking with this path. That would then give us a ruck froup of;

#1 Tom Bellchabers
#2 Paddy Ryder/Billy Frampton
#3 Sam Draper
#4 J.Goddarx/Bowman/Schmidt

People may bemoan the #1 rucks we have developing, similar to the lack of ruck time Draper was receiving in the first half of last year (with Lleunberger in the VFL side) we just need to get better at developing these guys either as rucks or forwards.


Anyways, that's my take
 

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Yoda_

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Paul Cousins seems to think Bowman has multiple suitors, fingers crossed it isn’t another player perfect for us that was right under our noses that we’ve let slip.
My gripe was not grabbing him when we had the chance. He was one of the more dominant players on the ground 2 days before the mid season draft for us in the VFL and we didn't take him. We went for yet another small midfielder.
 

I Remember Bluey

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On another note, I'd have a chat to Goddard as a personal mentor for training standards and prep
Don't know if you have watched him on "AFL Tonight" on Mondays but to me he is very underwhelming, has trouble getting his message across and stumbles when trying to complete a sentence, but I suppose he could just point and throw pretzels.

ps: But I liked BJ the player.
 

Red Black and Blue

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My gripe was not grabbing him when we had the chance. He was one of the more dominant players on the ground 2 days before the mid season draft for us in the VFL and we didn't take him. We went for yet another small midfielder.
From memory we could have taken another player but it might have been a TPP issue, but agree that it is frustrating that we either haven’t rated him or Hind or Campbell or Straughn enough to take them with rookie picks only to desperately need them only a year after.
 

Spud Patrol

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Don't know if you have watched him on "AFL Tonight" on Mondays but to me he is very underwhelming, has trouble getting his message across and stumbles when trying to complete a sentence, but I suppose he could just point and throw pretzels.

ps: But I liked BJ the player.
Confirmed. Dumb as a post.
 

eth-dog

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From memory we could have taken another player but it might have been a TPP issue, but agree that it is frustrating that we either haven’t rated him or Hind or Campbell or Straughn enough to take them with rookie picks only to desperately need them only a year after.
Campbell wasn't around Bendigo the year before he got drafted from memory, same as Dickson. Bloody Shannon Grant!
 

BrunoV

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My gripe was not grabbing him when we had the chance. He was one of the more dominant players on the ground 2 days before the mid season draft for us in the VFL and we didn't take him. We went for yet another small midfielder.


Benny McNiece was playing "really good footy" according to Dodoro.

Cat B rookies require a list spot freed up by long term injury.

If we took Bowman it would have relegated Benny back to the rookie list (and probably unable to play because we still haven't figured out how to put a player on the LTI).
 

JayDon

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I think a 'Ryder' suits needs. Aggressive and protects players. It's unlikely, but someone of those credentials is required. Bring confidence to ball carriers and a fear to opposition. I don't know the others but that's what I reckon we need to maximize our clearance? Preust fits the bill. At least 1 ruck whilst Big Sammy finds his feet.
 

Duckworth

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I didn't see the game but I thought Laverde didn't play? And did Begley play midfield?
Laverde didn't play and I don't remember Begley starting in the centre.
I think a 'Ryder' suits needs. Aggressive and protects players. It's unlikely, but someone of those credentials is required. Bring confidence to ball carriers and a fear to opposition. I don't know the others but that's what I reckon we need to maximize our clearance? Preust fits the bill. At least 1 ruck whilst Big Sammy finds his feet.
The lack of bigger bodies in the midfield could be somewhat negated by a big aggressive ruckman. In terms of being a physical presence, since we get to replace Clarke, I have always been a fan of a Mumford type.
 

ghostdog

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Laverde didn't play and I don't remember Begley starting in the centre.

The lack of bigger bodies in the midfield could be somewhat negated by a big aggressive ruckman. In terms of being a physical presence, since we get to replace Clarke, I have always been a fan of a Mumford type.
I'm not sure you could claim we'd see the same result against the Bulldogs if Laverde and/or Begley played midfield. The issue seems to be more about being cooked than personnel, although I wouldn't play Begley in the middle. Laverde could play well in there I think; bigger body and plays with aggression, quick hands as well (remembering Walla's goal v. NM).

I have reservations about the bulky TBell/Hille/Mumford sized ruckmen. I think Grundy/Gawn/NicNat types with mobility / agility show where ruck types are now. They double as extra midfielders.
 

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blitzer

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Might be worth having a look at Preus and Lycett, who are both currently stuck in the 2s but are pretty good, physical no.1 rucks.

Saints apparently a chance to nab Goldstein...would be for money you'd think if he left. Bombers could offer him similar and gives Draper a few more years to develop before becoming the no.1 ruck.
I'd be pretty to grab one of those blokes. Lycett the serious long term option of the 3. Preuss I'm not as sure of. Not saying he's not good but its just hard to tell as he has less AFL exposed form.
 

Duckworth

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I'm not sure you could claim we'd see the same result against the Bulldogs if Laverde and/or Begley played midfield. The issue seems to be more about being cooked than personnel, although I wouldn't play Begley in the middle. Laverde could play well in there I think; bigger body and plays with aggression, quick hands as well (remembering Walla's goal v. NM).

I have reservations about the bulky TBell/Hille/Mumford sized ruckmen. I think Grundy/Gawn/NicNat types with mobility / agility show where ruck types are now. They double as extra midfielders.
My point was more about not trying to put people in the middle who are not midfielders.
 

BrunoV

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I'd be pretty to grab one of those blokes. Lycett the serious long term option of the 3. Preuss I'm not as sure of. Not saying he's not good but its just hard to tell as he has less AFL exposed form.

We've just signed Draper to a 4 year deal.

We either sign an "understudy" for him (e.g. Frampton, Meek, Jones) or just replace Clarke with another depth option on his last legs (e.g. Ryder or Jacobs) though costs would have to be prohibitive for options of this quality.

Lycett is going to cost $500k + as would Darcy or any other long term challenger to Draper.

I'm not against exposing Draper to competition but it cant be expensive otherwise were distorting the cap based on the cost of what is effectively 3 first choice ruckmen.

yaco55 will be leading the charge to recruit an 18 year old which, again, I am not against but he can't be the back-up next year. There has to be at least someone who has been around a minimum of 4 pre-seasons who is big and strong enough to ruck 10 games next year.

I don't think Bowman can be that player. He's undersized for a ruck and is going to need to be Bowman the man, as opposed to the talented boy, to be able to front up to the brutes he would face each week.
 
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eth-dog

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We've just signed Draper to a 4 year deal.

We either sign an "understudy" for him (e.g. Frampton, Meek, Jones) or just replace Clarke with another depth option on his last legs (e.g. Ryder or Jacobs) though costs would have to be prohibitive for options of this quality.

Lycett is going to cost $500k + as would Darcy or any other long term challenger to Draper.

I'm not against exposing Draper to competition but it cant be expensive otherwise were distorting the cap based on the cost of 3 ruckmen.
I wouldn't call it an "understudy", I'd call it a medium term depth.
 

Zach Package

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The balance of the list would benefit from a genuine tall utility, someone capable of going anywhere including the ruck and giving an honest contest.

I would be satisfied if we entered next year with Bellchambers and Draper battling for #1, someone like Clarke as the designated 3rd banana (I’m willing to explore options, I suspect we could get an upgrade on him for next to nothing) and then a ruck sized everywhere man who can do a little of everything. Not sure there is the room or the need for 4 specialist ruckmen on an AFL list at present.
 

yaco55

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We've just signed Draper to a 4 year deal.

We either sign an "understudy" for him (e.g. Frampton, Meek, Jones) or just replace Clarke with another depth option on his last legs (e.g. Ryder or Jacobs) though costs would have to be prohibitive for options of this quality.

Lycett is going to cost $500k + as would Darcy or any other long term challenger to Draper.

I'm not against exposing Draper to competition but it cant be expensive otherwise were distorting the cap based on the cost of what is effectively 3 first choice ruckmen.

yaco55 will be leading the charge to recruit an 18 year old which, again, I am not against but he can't be the back-up next year. There has to be at least someone who has been around a minimum of 4 pre-seasons who is big and strong enough to ruck 10 games next year.

I don't think Bowman can be that player. He's undersized for a ruck and is going to need to be Bowman the man, as opposed to the talented boy, to be able to front up to the brutes he would face each week.
Once you sign Draper to a four year contract then he is the understudy to Bellchambers with a view to being number one ruck in twelve months - So the 18/19 year old is the third or fourth option depending on what happens to Z.Clarke - Posters bemoan the fact that EFC is risk averse to playing younger or inexperienced players but yet throw up names of more senior rucks with varying levels of ability - Dont give the match committee a chance to take a short cut.
 

eth-dog

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From what I understand, Frampton looks more like a forward who can chop out rather than a genuine ruck.

Darcy Cameron is one we should take a long, hard look at. His WAFL numbers indicated he was more than capable forward, his NEAFL numbers suggest he's more than capable in the ruck, and he's behind a few in the pecking order at Sydney.
 

blitzer

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We've just signed Draper to a 4 year deal.

We either sign an "understudy" for him (e.g. Frampton, Meek, Jones) or just replace Clarke with another depth option on his last legs (e.g. Ryder or Jacobs) though costs would have to be prohibitive for options of this quality.

Lycett is going to cost $500k + as would Darcy or any other long term challenger to Draper.

I'm not against exposing Draper to competition but it cant be expensive otherwise were distorting the cap based on the cost of what is effectively 3 first choice ruckmen.

yaco55 will be leading the charge to recruit an 18 year old which, again, I am not against but he can't be the back-up next year. There has to be at least someone who has been around a minimum of 4 pre-seasons who is big and strong enough to ruck 10 games next year.

I don't think Bowman can be that player. He's undersized for a ruck and is going to need to be Bowman the man, as opposed to the talented boy, to be able to front up to the brutes he would face each week.
You're probably right in that we couldn't afford Lycett. But yeah I want better backup than we had this year with Clarke. We can't pin all our hopes on Draper who hasn't played an AFL game and did his ACL this year. I hope he becomes the star we want him to be but we need more than just him and an aging Bellchambers.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Provided he’s fit, Sam Jacobs would be a good cheap option. Injured this year but aside from that he’s always been injury free.

Bellchambers / Jacobs / Draper / a rookie

The way Bellchambers moves is truly frightening for an AFL footballer, but he’s contracted so I guess we’ve got him.

Jacobs is a RFA and I doubt Adelaide would be standing in his way if he left.

Other free agents are Dawson Simpson and Jon Ceglar.
 

Yoda_

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The balance of the list would benefit from a genuine tall utility, someone capable of going anywhere including the ruck and giving an honest contest.

I would be satisfied if we entered next year with Bellchambers and Draper battling for #1, someone like Clarke as the designated 3rd banana (I’m willing to explore options, I suspect we could get an upgrade on him for next to nothing) and then a ruck sized everywhere man who can do a little of everything. Not sure there is the room or the need for 4 specialist ruckmen on an AFL list at present.
I think this is what a number of are pinning our hopes on Bowman being. His NAB league numbers of last year were quite good and followed on enough in 2019 as a goalkicking ruckmen. Someone we can sit in the goal square and use sporadically in the ruck.
 

Yoda_

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From what I understand, Frampton looks more like a forward who can chop out rather than a genuine ruck.

Darcy Cameron is one we should take a long, hard look at. His WAFL numbers indicated he was more than capable forward, his NEAFL numbers suggest he's more than capable in the ruck, and he's behind a few in the pecking order at Sydney.
I was a big advocate of DC. The fact Sydney went ahead and selected Knoll in the mid season draft and to nearly debut him ahead of DC is perhaps an indictment on his actual capabilities.

**preface this by saying I have not seen him play one minute of NEAFL football or what role/position he does for the Swans reserves**
 

Yoda_

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Once you sign Draper to a four year contract then he is the understudy to Bellchambers with a view to being number one ruck in twelve months - So the 18/19 year old is the third or fourth option depending on what happens to Z.Clarke - Posters bemoan the fact that EFC is risk averse to playing younger or inexperienced players but yet throw up names of more senior rucks with varying levels of ability - Dont give the match committee a chance to take a short cut.
ICYMI - Sam Draper did his knee and is likely to miss half of 2020. A guy who could play seniors if TBC goes down long term is paramount. As BrunoV mentioned, we either go an aging warrior on a budget or a guy in a similar position to Draper.
 

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