Strategy Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

Remove this Banner Ad

Zach Package

Kyle Langfourd
Sep 21, 2012
25,695
36,428
Parish, Francis
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Piggy Smith, Heat
What we have up to get him requires getting an A grade star in return.

As you’ve pointed out, he’s not an A grade star.

He’s a good (albeit limited) footballer, but when looking at the ROI he’s already a bust.
It is a significant investment, but he ticked and still ticks plenty of boxes to the point where I can’t really fault it.

Proven performer, big game experience, young enough to give us 150 games, consummate professional, plays a position of need and offers attributes that we needed at the time and still need now.

2 picks in the teens for Shiel and Mosquito is fair enough I reckon
 

Bjchan13

Premiership Player
Jul 23, 2018
3,077
3,252
AFL Club
Essendon
I think it showed a fair bit of disconnect between the list management / recruiting team and the coaches. Which I’m pretty sure was something Brasher mentioned in one of his videos.
He has spoken about aligning this. Rutten will get to have a big say in finding these blue collar workers at the draft/trade period to suit his gameplan. Hopefully helps stop Dodo from outsmarting himself.
 

citizen-erased

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
22,100
17,122
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham, Bayern, Milan, Celtic
We also didn't see enough of him to know that he definitely wasn't good enough. Surely we do know, though, that in a season where we obviously were not going to be contenders even for a finals spot, that we should have tried him out. Shiel's time out suspended could have been a good opportunity to do that. In 2019 he averaged 24 disposals so he can clearly find the ball. He made the VFL team of the year. We recruited the inside type that we needed and then gave him minimal opportunities, playing him out of position when we finally did play him.
I'm not torturing myself by any stretch. Let's be realistic though; we still have Cutler on the list in a position where we have multiple other players, yet we delisted the type of player we need. Where I stand, that looks like mismanagement.
Cutler had a 2 year deal. Hibberd 1.
I think that's the only reason one is still around. I'd be surprised if Cutler remained after this season. Ham has gone past him. Cox & Perkins will keep him out of the team.
Laverde has gone back. Heppell is going back. Redman is in form. So there isn't a spot in defence.

With Shiel out for so long i'm assuming that opens up another spot on the list come MSD time.
Does that make 3?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

ghostdog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2008
9,708
5,373
gondawanaland
AFL Club
Essendon
Cutler had a 2 year deal. Hibberd 1.
I think that's the only reason one is still around. I'd be surprised if Cutler remained after this season. Ham has gone past him. Cox & Perkins will keep him out of the team.
Laverde has gone back. Heppell is going back. Redman is in form. So there isn't a spot in defence.

With Shiel out for so long i'm assuming that opens up another spot on the list come MSD time.
Does that make 3?
Not sure how many spots that means, but if Cutler can't get a game, we're in a good position. Zaharakis returning puts him back too, and that's saying something. Sorry, Cuts.
 

citizen-erased

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
22,100
17,122
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham, Bayern, Milan, Celtic
Don't think we'll put Shiel on the LTI list since Hurley isn't on it either. So we've still only got one spot going into the MSD.

A lot can change between now and June though.
imagine we're keeping the powder dry there, but come time we'll assess where things are at.
Should we opt to, it's 3 spots im assuming. We didn't fill one for Moz already?
 

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,740
26,454
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
Shiel deal is an interesting one

We gave up 2018 1st (Caldwell...so in effect that became 2021 2nd + most of Fantasia) & 2019 1st (Bergman*) w/ Moz coming in for the 2nd we got back
*I don't think for a second we take Bergman, and if we take Dodoro at his word, he rated Jones top 10, so to get him at 14 would have been a bargain in his eyes.

So we have Caldwell, Jones & Shiel minus Fantasia, Pick 29, Fraser Rosman (Roos got this pick for Jones, who traded it to the Dees, who took Rosman) and our 2nd this year.

Hindsight, maybe you don't do the deal.
Invest in the draft, bank Fantasia the year earlier and hope for a late 1st and keep our 2nd last year & this year (Jack Carroll and another mid to add to the depth).

It's nowhere near the disaster the Daniher debacle turned out to be.
Given what we know now you do not deal and we go to the draft. In fact we probably do it in 2017 given where we ended.
At the time we where expecting Joe back and Raz to do something.
There would have been a small minority calling for a decent rebuild at the end of 2018.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

citizen-erased

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
22,100
17,122
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham, Bayern, Milan, Celtic
Given what we know now you do not deal and we go to the draft. In fact we probably do it in 2017 given where we ended.
At the time we where expecting Joe back and Raz to do something.
There would have been a small minority calling for a decent rebuild at the end of 2018.
And not all of Jones,Cox,Perkins and Reid.
I rated McDonald but I would say Jones has been as impressive minus the goal kicking.
Shiel deal makes sense to me. Did at the time and even now i don't think it's worked out so bad.
We wanted an elite mid in his prime.

Daniher i felt at the time was risky, knowing he wasn't signing we should have taken the offer on the table.
I'd lose one of the 3 for McDonald. Likely Reid given we had enough tall options.
 

Towno78

Premiership Player
Nov 6, 2009
3,628
2,887
AFL Club
Essendon
Shiel, for as lovely as he is, is not a difference maker. If he were we wouldn’t have been a pedestrian midfield for the past few years and had the substandard record that we’ve had.
If he was a "difference maker" we wouldn't have a pedestrian midfield :think:

Riiiight. So Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (... I could go on and on and on), who all played in pedestrian midfields for prolonged periods, were not "difference makers"?

He's a very good player. So is Merrett. But it's quite fair to say our entire midfield unit is not good enough yet, and that's not all just on Shiel. All of the best midfields bat deep.
 

JayJ20

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 28, 2016
14,456
20,461
AFL Club
Essendon
we'd have mcdonald + someone.....
Jones is pretty good. If Baldwin can get his body right, then his potential is just as great as McDonald. But that's a big IF.

I'm not too hung up on the past given that we have a lot of quality youth coming through. Also Carlton don't have Papley. That's the main thing.
 

citizen-erased

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
22,100
17,122
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham, Bayern, Milan, Celtic
Jones is pretty good. If Baldwin can get his body right, then his potential is just as great as McDonald. But that's a big IF.

I'm not too hung up on the past given that we have a lot of quality youth coming through. Also Carlton don't have Papley. That's the main thing.
Yeah. Something about McDonald i really like. Reminds me a bit of Lloyd cross Lucas for some reason.
It was a risky move. I hope the club has learnt from it.

Montagna did a good segment on Stringer on 360 tonight
This stupid striker thing they're on about, he's essentially ours
So if De Goey is Kmart Dusty, it would seem Stringer is...Myer/DJ's?

If we get Baldwin/Eyre up and running along with Jones, it would free him up to do that more.
We look a lot better with Stringer at the Centre Bounces.
 

11kgm

Premium Platinum
Sep 24, 2014
6,692
4,299
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Man Utd
Hopefully we do a good cut of the list this year

Cutler is gone looks okay then fu**s up didn't live up towards the hype very much like Craig Bird

Mozzie may be rookie or gone apparently not applying himself in rehab

Gleeson because Francis Redman and Heppell have gone past him

Clarke dodgy kicking, now injured will have to come from a long way back to stay in the side

Phillips crocked will probably need a backup ruck next year

Stewart can never get on the park so goodbye

Hurley may have to retire injured if its believed to be as bad as it is

Cahill too slow to make it at AFL level for his height and not as good with the ball at his feet like Daniel

Then hoping we hit this super draft hard especially with 19 year olds plus 18 years old
 

Big Slam

Debutant
Aug 9, 2020
97
124
AFL Club
Essendon
If he was a "difference maker" we wouldn't have a pedestrian midfield :think:

Riiiight. So Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (... I could go on and on and on), who all played in pedestrian midfields for prolonged periods, were not "difference makers"?

He's a very good player. So is Merrett. But it's quite fair to say our entire midfield unit is not good enough yet, and that's not all just on Shiel. All of the best midfields bat deep.
Wait, you’re not really putting Shiel in the same tier as players like Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (you could go on and on).....are you?

You think that Shiel is Brownlow Medal worthy - like all the guys you listed who did earn Brownlow’s?

Yowzers.

And when did we give up multiple first round picks and considerable cap space for Merrett? Based on ROI alone Merrett is heads and shoulders better than Shiel.
 

Towno78

Premiership Player
Nov 6, 2009
3,628
2,887
AFL Club
Essendon
Wait, you’re not really putting Shiel in the same tier as players like Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (you could go on and on).....are you?

You think that Shiel is Brownlow Medal worthy - like all the guys you listed who did earn Brownlow’s?

Yowzers.

And when did we give up multiple first round picks and considerable cap space for Merrett? Based on ROI alone Merrett is heads and shoulders better than Shiel.
Did you even read what I wrote?
No I didn't, at any point, compare Shiel to any other player, nor say he is worthy of a Brownlow.
Let me make it really simple for you:

You said Shiel is not a "difference maker", whatever that is, otherwise our midfield wouldn't be so sh*t.

I listed undisputable superstars of the game, who played in horrible midfields for extended periods of time, with poor results as proof that your assertion is complete garbage. Even those superstars as good as they were did not instantly elevate their midfields to an acceptable standard on their own.

So how can you expect Shiel, who is NOT in their league, to do so? It's a ridiculous notion. Rate him on his game, not the team's.
 

Lore

Moderator ❀
Dec 14, 2015
22,938
29,649
AFL Club
Essendon
if Hooksy, Hurls, Hepp (shagger's back, shonky leg) and Zaka all leave surely that's 2.5+ mill off the books.
We had a significant chunk set aside for Daniher as well that I doubt would be used up by Wright, Hind, and a handful of draftees. Likewise Saad, McKenna, Fantasia.

If Merrett were to leave that's another big chunk.

The problem then is what do you spend it on? Overpay the kids? Spend big on a free agent?
 

Remove this Banner Ad