Strategy Talk about the makeup of our list (and overall list management)

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Ambrosia

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Mar 11, 2010
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He will play some midfield but he is not the big midfield bull .
Don’t think it’s lack of size that is preventing him from that role just doesn’t seem that type of player.

He should fill out and be a difficult matchup wherever he ends up playing.
 

Ants

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Not saying he'll be as good, but I see Perkins following a similar trajectory into the middle as Mercuri did, with some Pendles comparisons. Neither were/are bulls, but definitely extracted plenty of ball and used it well.
 

katana

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archie's physicality looks as good as anyone on our list given his size. he looks to take tackles, uses his body to protect the ball, and has ridiculous balance through his core. he'll be more than capable of doing significant damage on the inside as he grows.
 

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JayJ20

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Aug 28, 2016
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He will play some midfield but he is not the big midfield bull .
I don't believe he'll be a Libba, Neale, Hopper or Oliver type inside mid, but I think it's too early to tell other than to say he's already strong enough to stand up in tackles from experienced players.
How many will he attend with McGrath , Caldwell and Shiel fit along with Langford?
The discussion isn't really about where Perkins plays in the immediate future. Rather, where will his career take him?
Shiel certainly won't be a first-choice mid when Perkins hits his peak so we can rule him out of the discussion.
I don't see Langford as a big bodied mid. More a wing/forward.
 

Phat Toni

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How many will he attend with McGrath , Caldwell and Shiel fit along with Langford?
I agree, I doubt he will play much mid for the next 2 - 3 years with Parish(25 next season), Merrett(26), McGrath(24), Stringer(28), Caldwell(21), Langford(25), and Shiel(29), everyone in that group will play for the next 2+ years without doubt not to mention names like Dunstan that are getting thrown around. I think he will get small opportunities but half forward is his go for the next few years with maybe a roll back to the half back line in a Heppell type role.
 

eth-dog

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I swear this will be the last one for a while (maybe):

1 year: Martin Gleeson

Retired: Cale Hooker, Paddy Ambrose, Irving Mosquito
Delisted: Dylan Clarke, David Zaharakis, Lachlan Johnson, Ned Cahill

Trade/FA:

1. Jake Kelly (Band 4 to Adelaide)
2. Luke Dunstan (No compensation)
3. Picks 48 and 53 for picks 39 and 75 (at the draft) with Collingwood

Draft:

Pick 11: Josh Goater (190 cm/79 kg, Midfielder/Forward, Calder Cannons)
Pick 39: Miller Bergman (188/65, Half Back/Half Forward, Dandenong)
Pick 75: Tex Wanganeen (175/72, Small Forward, Oakleigh)

RD 11: Bailey Lambert (184/82, Inside Midfielder, Frankston)

Defenders:

Key Defenders: James Stewart (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zachary Reid, Josh Eyre (fwd), Cody Brand
Medium Defenders: Martin Gleeson, Tom Cutler (mid), Jordan Ridley, Jayden Laverde, Dyson Heppell, Jake Kelly
Small Defenders: Nick Hind, Mason Redman, Miller Bergman (fwd)

Midfielders:

Inside Midfielders: Andrew McGrath (def), Darcy Parish (fwd), Jye Caldwell (fwd), Zachary Merrett, Dylan Shiel, Josh Goater, Luke Dunstan
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (fwd), Nik Cox (fwd/def), Brayden Ham (fwd), Matt Guelfi (def/fwd), Sam Durham
Rucks: Sam Draper, Nick Bryan (fwd/def), Andrew Phillips

Forwards:

Key Forwards: Michael Hurley (def), Peter Wright (ruc), Harrison Jones, Kaine Baldwin, Cian McBride (def)
Medium Forwards: Aaron Francis (def), Archie Perkins (mid), Jake Stringer (mid), Alec Waterman
Small Forwards: Devon Smith (mid), Will Snelling (mid), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Tom Hird, Tex Wanganeen

Seniors:

FB: Jake Kelly - James Stewart - Jordan Ridley
HB: Nick Hind - Jayden Laverde - Dyson Heppell
MF: Kyle Langford - Andrew McGrath - Nik Cox
HF: Archie Perkins - Harrison Jones - Will Snelling
FF: Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti - Peter Wright - Jake Stringer
OB: Sam Draper - Darcy Parish - Zachary Merrett
IC: Mason Redman - Dylan Shiel - Jye Caldwell -Aaron Francis
MS: Sam Durham

Reserves:

FB: Martin Gleeson - Brandon Zerk-Thatcher - Josh Eyre
HB: Tom Cutler - Zachary Reid - Miller Bergman
MF: Matt Guelfi - Josh Goater - Brayden Ham
HF: Michael Hurley - Cian McBride - Alec Waterman
FF: Tom Hird - Kaine Baldwin - Tex Wanganeen
OB: Nick Bryan - Luke Dunstan - Bailey Lambert
IC: Cody Brand - Devon Smith - Andrew Phillips - VFL Player

Gives us a relatively balanced list. I'd have the other emergencies as Hurley, Dunstan and Cutler primarily, with Smith, Waterman and Goater also likely to get games.
 

Lore

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Re: Cox, he has said before that he sees himself as a KP player. We've brought in Durham, Ham lives, Langford will return and Cutler is depth for that spot given we're bringing Kelly in. Maybe we're not settled on Cox the winger. We're still building so it would be worth seeing what Jones - Wright - Cox looks like. I'd be loathe to see us pin our hopes on an expensive Ben King who may or may not leave GC.
Cox is too skinny atm, playing him on a wing gets him playing at AFL level while he builds up his strength. I think long term he’ll be KPP though
Jones was two preseasons in? Cox after another preseason isn't inconceivable. Jones seemed to have been coached to take marks coming in from the side where possible to avoid the crunch.
I agree though, 2021 Cox is too slight. I think we've got choices for the role already is all, and I've cooled on chasing King.
Jones isn’t taking the #1 defender though. He’s been about 3rd, or even 4th after Stringer.

Cox would effectively replace Wright or Hooker when he’s beefed up a bit, atm you would probably have to play him instead of Jones.
Ants did you have a different perspective?
 

Ants

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Ants did you have a different perspective?
My thought is that true wingers are very rare in the AFL. Players like Langdon, Gaff, Hill (when performing), Isaac Smith, really stand out and make a big difference to their teams. Losing Stanton was a huge headache to us even with his flaws. Players who can run up and down presenting an option, defensive pressure, are important. If they're good in the air or with disposal, they're solid rolled gold. And they don't have to be express speedsters.

Cox has all of these attributes. He has the engine to go all day. Clean disposal on both sides with short and long kicks. Marking ability. His ability to float back or forward as a 4th tall option, provide a long kick out of defence, makes good decisions, while also being nimble and beautiful disposal is a combination of features that rarely exist in the one player.

I don't care where he originally saw himself as. Unless he's unhappy with his current role, I'd be training and building him up as a winger. And he could be the dominant one in the AFL.

We've got Reid, Baldwin, Eyre, Brand, Bryan, McBride and Zerk who we're developing, and if they're successful will need spots (on top of guys already in the best 22). Prioritise them for the key position roles.
 

Ants

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I swear this will be the last one for a while (maybe):
My view:

Out: Hooker, Ambrose, Mosquito, Zaka, Johnson, Cahill, Gleeson
Retain: Clarke (1 year)
In: Durham

Trade/FA: Jake Kelly

Draft:

#11: Sonsie (if available) then NWM
#48: Best midfielder still available
#53: One small back (lockdown or rebounding)

Rookie: Tex Wanganeen, Moore

I could also see us upgrading Snelling, foregoing #53 and picking up M. Ling as a DFA.

Best 22 (I prefer to list players in their primary positions, even if they start on the bench).

KB (3): Lav, Reid, Ridley ................................................... depth: Stewart, Zerk
S/MB (4): Kelly, Hind, Heppell, Redman .............................. depth: Cutler
Ruck (1): Draper .............................................................. depth: Bryan, Phillips
Wing (3): Cox, Durham Langford ........................................ depth: Ham, R11
Mids (5): Merrett, Parish, McGrath, Shiel, Caldwell ............... depth: Clarke, Perkins,
S/MF (3): Walla, Stringer, Snelling ..................................... depth: Smith, Waterman
KF (3): Wright, Francis, Jones ........................................... depth: Baldwin, Eyre, Bryan, McBride

So Cutler, Perkins, Smith, Waterman and Clarke are small depth. Stewart, Zerk, Baldwin, Eyre, Bryan and McBride are tall depth. Phillips is ruck depth as well.

I think Reid will be prioritised over Stewart to get games.

We'll still be light on for small depth, depending on how those late picks and rookies go.
 
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Towno78

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Nov 6, 2009
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Perkins will not be that player IMO. He is tall and he will be a decent size but Archie is more of an X factor . I see him playing wing / half forward and not the inside bull some seem to think he is going to be.
Agree on the draft theory. Would not mind a taller winger / more outside midfielder with good skills.
Ryan Griffen is the player I see him becoming.
 

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Call Me Cake

I'll brb
Jun 9, 2007
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Tippa is such an accurate kick, arguably the most accurate on our list. Leaping marks aside, it's why I believe an increase in tackling inside 50 will almost certainly result in an increase in goal output. Need to drill that into him.
 

ghostdog

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Oct 18, 2008
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My thought is that true wingers are very rare in the AFL. Players like Langdon, Gaff, Hill (when performing), Isaac Smith, really stand out and make a big difference to their teams. Losing Stanton was a huge headache to us even with his flaws. Players who can run up and down presenting an option, defensive pressure, are important. If they're good in the air or with disposal, they're solid rolled gold. And they don't have to be express speedsters.

Cox has all of these attributes. He has the engine to go all day. Clean disposal on both sides with short and long kicks. Marking ability. His ability to float back or forward as a 4th tall option, provide a long kick out of defence, makes good decisions, while also being nimble and beautiful disposal is a combination of features that rarely exist in the one player.

I don't care where he originally saw himself as. Unless he's unhappy with his current role, I'd be training and building him up as a winger. And he could be the dominant one in the AFL.

We've got Reid, Baldwin, Eyre, Brand, Bryan, McBride and Zerk who we're developing, and if they're successful will need spots (on top of guys already in the best 22). Prioritise them for the key position roles.
Another pre-season and Cox is a first choice winger, Langford obviously the other. Tough for Cutler and Durham as they'd really risen to the level during Langford's absence and when Cox ran out of steam (although Cutler went to a back flank as well). Ham is depth. I'd really like to see Cox build his running capacity so he can drift into the forwardline more. He's going to cause opposition coaches a lot of headaches.
 

Ambrosia

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Mar 11, 2010
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My thought is that true wingers are very rare in the AFL. Players like Langdon, Gaff, Hill (when performing), Isaac Smith, really stand out and make a big difference to their teams. Losing Stanton was a huge headache to us even with his flaws. Players who can run up and down presenting an option, defensive pressure, are important. If they're good in the air or with disposal, they're solid rolled gold. And they don't have to be express speedsters.
I agree but see more as a shortage of quality outside mids. People underrate how rare well rounded outside players are.

I just hope Cox can fulfil his potential away from the backline as his skill set would obviously succeed there but would be more valuable to the team if he can become a wing/mid/forward.
 

ghostdog

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You don't think he ran out of puff this year? He was smoked by the end.

Edit: I just re-read that and it's probably how I expressed it. I know he's got excellent endurance but he hasn't got the capacity yet to keep running, week-in week-out, for a full season. He was made the sub for the last few rounds.
 

Towno78

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Nov 6, 2009
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You don't think he ran out of puff this year? He was smoked by the end.
There are other factors that lead to fatigue, than simply running capacity. No one running a 6min 2km has an issue with running capacity.

He needs to build strength whilst maintaining his running capacity.
 

owen87

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Apr 23, 2016
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You don't think he ran out of puff this year? He was smoked by the end.

Edit: I just re-read that and it's probably how I expressed it. I know he's got excellent endurance but he hasn't got the capacity yet to keep running, week-in week-out, for a full season. He was made the sub for the last few rounds.
I don't think that's a running capacity thing, there's a physical maturity that comes with the rigours of playing a full season, getting battered, and recovering appropriately week in-week out. Happens quite a lot with young blokes, especially considering they didn't really play football in 2020.

I guess that's why the 'third year breakout' is a thing, as that usually is the point where players have had sufficient game-time, preseasons and experience to get up and perform at a high level each week.
 

ghostdog

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I don't think that's a running capacity thing, there's a physical maturity that comes with the rigours of playing a full season, getting battered, and recovering appropriately week in-week out. Happens quite a lot with young blokes, especially considering they didn't really play football in 2020.

I guess that's why the 'third year breakout' is a thing, as that usually is the point where players have had sufficient game-time, preseasons and experience to get up and perform at a high level each week.
That physical maturity then is what I'm looking forward to seeing from Cox (from all the youngers, really). The ability to lose his opponent and turn up in the forwardline late in games and late in the season, as an extra tall, should break close games open. Hard to believe he's already played 21 games. Maybe with another full season that physicality gets fast-tracked as well.
 

owen87

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That physical maturity then is what I'm looking forward to seeing from Cox (from all the youngers, really). The ability to lose his opponent and turn up in the forwardline late in games and late in the season, as an extra tall, should break close games open. Hard to believe he's already played 21 games. Maybe with another full season that physicality gets fast-tracked as well.
I think similar to this season we'll see glimpses of what he'll become, more often during games and more consistently week-to-week, but probably not all game, every week.

Especially given his height, it'll take some time to pack enough size on to really impose himself on games without compromising his ability to run.

I think getting the game time in to Cox and Perkins this year will set them up for the future, they'll be able to attack preseason knowing the level they need to be at and hopefully become regular contributors in 2022.

The aim would be that by 2023 they're genuinely starting to impose themselves on games, as I think both have skillsets that should allow them to really become top half dozen players in a side.
 

fishardansin

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Apr 6, 2008
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Connor McKenna? If he were to come back, how would we get him on the list? Would it have to be in the draft or is his contract still on sort of and we could just give him another one?
 

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