Talls

[loki04]

Moore was always going to be our most talented & dangerous tall forward. But we made him a defender instead.
Defenders are considerably easier to find than classy key position forwards. As of 2021 we should be training him to be that player from the very start of pre season. I'd still be having a crack at Daniher if he wants out of Essendon. Get him fit & the tall forward position is solved. He is in the Lynch class when up & going & wont cost draft picks.

100%.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Moore was always going to be our most talented & dangerous tall forward. But we made him a defender instead.
Defenders are considerably easier to find than classy key position forwards. As of 2021 we should be training him to be that player from the very start of pre season. I'd still be having a crack at Daniher if he wants out of Essendon. Get him fit & the tall forward position is solved. He is in the Lynch class when up & going & wont cost draft picks.

Moore's body won't stand up to playing kpf all game let alone all year

He's got better body wise playing back and reading angles not changing direction

 

[Markfs]

i forgot to mention that Derek recognised the talent of tobias thoolen.

 

[Markfs]

Are you being sarcastic to your own thread you created?

This is the first thread ive seen someone start and derail all in the same 10 or so posts. Like Jekkyl and Hyde posting their thoughts on collingwoods talls. Did give me a chuckle though.

no i was being pragmatic. i dont know how you got sarcastic out of it. Are you going to follow me around and try to work out when i'm being sarcastic? Does it matter that much? Through all the stupid inane ridiculous posts of the last few days calling for everybody except the president's dog to be fired, and I didnt see anyone question the poster's sanity, let alone whether they were being sarcastic. I made this thread to map out some throughts that i had. If people want to read them so be it. If they prefer to read endlless posts about who should be sacked, then so be it. Sack the boot studder.

 

[sr36]

With the season looking like a write off, I'd like us to give Keane the rest of the year in seniors to see whether he can adjust and Moore the rest of the year up forward to see how he goes.

 

[Markfs]

With the season looking like a write off, I'd like us to give Keane the rest of the year in seniors to see whether he can adjust and Moore the rest of the year up forward to see how he goes.

Moore up forward is an option. I think they put him back to take the stress off his hamstrings etc. ...well thats my theory. But he's about 40% of the backline at the moment - marking contests with talls, intercepts, giving some run.... I think the backline would collapse without him.

I think they should give the irish boys a heart to heart. What does Keane wanna do if his mate goes home? And if he stops to think, put him on the first flight back. As for his talent, it's hard to judge. I dont think anyone could have done worse in a first game. And after a season in the VFL, I cant believe that a local kid wouldn't have shown about the same promise. It wasn't as if his athleticism shone out.

I would certainly play him ahead of Dunn. I'm still in shock about Dunn ....for the simple fact that we put him back on the list. It is the single most worrying decision that I've seen the club make in the last couple of years, ahead of refusing to move on some of the people on the board.

 

[mike123]

yeh... a thread leading to a conclusion that is pretty self evident..

Self evident since Cloke left, actually it was self evident when he was still here!

 

[Markfs]

lets have a quick look at WC

kennedy darling, allen, waterman,

reid, mihocek, ruscoe


but have a comparison of their rucks

Nic, Hickey, Vardy and 2 young kids at 2metres.

Grundy, Cameron, Cox and Lynch

so acknowledge Nic is over 30 but still got more resources in rucks while having more resources in tall forwards.

I would also say that the difference in quality of the forwards is breath-taking.

 

[sr36]

lets have a quick look at WC

kennedy darling, allen, waterman,

reid, mihocek, ruscoe


but have a comparison of their rucks

Nic, Hickey, Vardy and 2 young kids at 2metres.

Grundy, Cameron, Cox and Lynch

so acknowledge Nic is over 30 but still got more resources in rucks while having more resources in tall forwards.

I would also say that the difference in quality of the forwards is breath-taking.

That's some pretty in-depth research and analysis to uncover the hidden secret that WCE have better talls than us.

 

[YouBeauty]

The title of the thread insinuates a tall player of any quality. I think quality tall players is what we lack.
Also, when you have good tall players you need to be able to move the ball effectively and kick it well.
I'm not sure even Jason Dunstall would be successful when you have i-got-yipps, uh-oh-loar and hack-ams with their hack half-volley kicks near the boundary.

 

[manicpie]

I bet you if we took Naughton instead of Stepho that bucks would still be trying to turn him into a defender

 

[jathanas]

we call this a forum... and i understand that there's a lot of people who dont read my posts and thats ok. But I cant find one person who can defend the club's position on talls..and we can find dozens of people who will post like 5 year olds after a bad loss.... as ben would say, such is life..

As angry as people are at the moment there are quite a few posters that have identifided our bare cupboard when it comes to KPFs. The club seems to have focused their recruiting on a certain type of player.

In hindsight it's indefensible.

 

[YouBeauty]

History. Repeats. Itself...... must read.......

Pies' game plan starved 'natural forward' Moore

Darcy will thrive down back, his champion father Peter says

www.afl.com.au

As I said, it won't matter who we got there or how many times we drop them.

 

[Markfs]

That's some pretty in-depth research and analysis to uncover the hidden secret that WCE have better talls than us.

well it took me 3 minutes to scan their list and i checked waterman's height... they have a few other boys who are tall but wouldnt take a contested mark..

i usually like posts that have no facts... just a vent and lots of masculine language... then i know that I respect the poster. However, sometimes i try the intellectual approach and try reason and facts. I know I know...we all hate it...

 

[YouBeauty]

History. Repeats. Itself...... must read.......

Pies' game plan starved 'natural forward' Moore

Darcy will thrive down back, his champion father Peter says

www.afl.com.au

As I said, it won't matter who we got there or how many times we drop them.

You could argue, two of our best KPP of the past 30 years and neither could play forward under bucks' game plan LOL

 

[Markfs]

The title of the thread insinuates a tall player of any quality. I think quality tall players is what we lack.
Also, when you have good tall players you need to be able to move the ball effectively and kick it well.
I'm not sure even Jason Dunstall would be successful when you have i-got-yipps, uh-oh-loar and hack-ams with their hack half-volley kicks near the boundary.

The reason that I wrote the original post was that the club hasn't put enough resources into finding quality talls. If you have a couple of irishmen, a yank, a couple of basketballers and a few others who spend their time in the injury room, there's not much chance of lucking out on a quality tall.

In other words, you need to have a few on the list in order to have the 2 or 3 that you need in the team.

if you think otherwise, fair enough

 

[Markfs]

As angry as people are at the moment there are quite a few posters that have identifided our bare cupboard when it comes to KPFs. The club seems to have focused their recruiting on a certain type of player.

In hindsight it's indefensible.

then why is the recruiting focused on non KFPs?

 

[anshell]

Great thread Marks.I think the reason why no one’s arguing with you is that you made an irrefutable point about our lack of recruiting of key position players in recent years.It’s really hard to argue with anything you‘ve said here.

I did learn something new in this thread,however.I think it was Royal Sampler,who said that in 2016 we could have had Ratugolea or Stewart in the draft and we went for Mclarty instead.That’s just another black mark in Hine’s recruiting record in my opinion.Ratugolea would have been the ideal player for us,and way better than any of the key forwards we’ve tried out in recent years.

 

[Markfs]

I had a read of some history of trey ruscoe. He was mostly a forward but actually was played in the midfield. He was tried down back to give him a chance to display his versatility... So the question is whether they saw him as another "big bodied" midfielder project.

While there were comments about his marking, it mostly related to his strength. I think generally speaking that players who show strength in schoolboy footy are no so adept at it at AFL level. It's only now that Petracca is showing the alpha male stuff that he showed as a kid.

At any rate, i dont see this kid being a forward..

 

[jathanas]

then why is the recruiting focused on non KFPs?

It's baffling. We pitched at Lynch and failed, apparently we were never in the running. Too much faith in Cox? Drafting McLarty was a miss and giving up first round picks for Beams... don't get me started.

If Kelly comes good and we are able to trade for a tall this year it will transform our forward line.

 

[Markfs]

Great thread Marks.I think the reason why no one’s arguing with you is that you made an irrefutable point about our lack of recruiting of key position players in recent years.It’s really hard to argue with anything you‘ve said here.

I did learn something new in this thread,however.I think it was Royal Sampler,who said that in 2016 we could have had Ratugolea or Stewart in the draft and we went for Mclarty instead.That’s just another black mark in Hine’s recruiting record in my opinion.Ratugolea would have been the ideal player for us,and way better than any of the key forwards we’ve tried out in recent years.

I think the point that i made in the original post is that you have to judge Hine on the full trip. Recruiters make mistakes. Hine has had a few wins. He did exceptionally well in the early years with rookies.

However, the persistence of trying to get talls from overseas and/or basketballers is just mind-numbing. i used to complain about all the short people in the team when Blair used to play. My gripe wasnt with Blair who was a good player, but we had too many undersized players.

Now buckley talks about the big bodied demons in his press conference... and we had a few of our own. I didnt think we were outstrengthed but its clearly a focus with buckley. However, he doesnt seem to have the same appreciation of tall marking forwards.

And i'm not sure its totally buckley fault because there must be some consensus about this approach of trying overseas etc for key position players.

McLarty thing is another trick of Hine. Going for players who had an injury during their draft year ....thinking that they will be underappreciated. Shaz is the other obvious one. It just seems too tricky for me. To gimmicky. If Derek wants to take risks, then take a few talls with round 4 and 5. or take an indigenous player. I just dont understand our strategy in recruiting.

 

[Markfs]

It's baffling. We pitched at Lynch and failed, apparently we were never in the running. Too much faith in Cox? Drafting McLarty was a miss and giving up first round picks for Beams... don't get me started.

If Kelly comes good and we are able to trade for a tall this year it will transform our forward line.

I know it's more complicated that this ....but we miss out on lynch and get beams... so we miss out on a tall and get a midfielder.

 

[jdpie]

As angry as people are at the moment there are quite a few posters that have identifided our bare cupboard when it comes to KPFs. The club seems to have focused their recruiting on a certain type of player.

In hindsight it's indefensible.

Unless you are taking a medium term approach and think you can turn an oversupply of one role to get trade currency. I still have a bit of trust in the list management potential of Ned Guy
( i am writing this in trepidation that the Beams trade was him but i think it was the last of the Hines era ?). I am hoping there is some clarity of list need and a 2 year method of getting to where we need to be. Cannot under any circumstances only end up with 1 flag having Pendles and to a slightly lesser extent Steele through their entire careers.

 

[jathanas]

Unless you are taking a medium term approach and think you can turn an oversupply of one role to get trade currency. I still have a bit of trust in the list management potential of Ben Niall ( i am writing this in trepidation that the Beams trade was him but i think it was the last of the Hines era ?). I am hoping there is some clarity of list need and a 2 year method of getting to where we need to be. Cannot under any circumstances only end up with 1 flag having Pendles and to a slightly lesser extent Steele through their entire careers.

An oversupply yes, but based on our performances this year not many of our players have the trade currency that they did in 2018 or even last year.

I have faith that the core of our list can compete for top 4 if we address our game plan, recruit a KPF, and have some damn luck with injuries to key personnel. Pendles might have hope for another one yet.

 

[jathanas]

Trey is a good egg Mark, but not the KPF we lack in the forward line. He will be an asset regardless.

I had a read of some history of trey ruscoe. He was mostly a forward but actually was played in the midfield. He was tried down back to give him a chance to display his versatility... So the question is whether they saw him as another "big bodied" midfielder project.

While there were comments about his marking, it mostly related to his strength. I think generally speaking that players who show strength in schoolboy footy are no so adept at it at AFL level. It's only now that Petracca is showing the alpha male stuff that he showed as a kid.

At any rate, i dont see this kid being a forward..