Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

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johnymac1 said:
So Webb was a Power tool repair man at one stage?
The black dust embedded in the hand brush, may have been just carbon from the commutator brushes.
Click to expand...
Or graphite powder, either answer is stuff either created by or used in electric motors.
Simple answers are usually the correct ones.

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geoffjennings79 said:
Update today confirming that C Webb attended Swinburne, is in the team football photo, and now stronger evidence it is the same person that was found on Somerton beach:

www.abc.net.au

Somerton Man confirmed among faces in Swinburne footy team photo

Newly uncovered records from Swinburne University of Technology indicate that the Charles Webb widely believed to be the Somerton Man enrolled there as a teenager in 1920.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Far left, front row looks a likely candidate at first glance:

f405798d0af85d18d6fdf0fa7d3c63eb
Click to expand...

CD Xbow said:
The ABC has an article about it
www.abc.net.au

'It's a sad story': Family of Somerton Man reveal why he was found dead on the beach

For seven decades the Somerton Man was simply known by his anonymous autopsy photo. But now he has a name — Charles Webb. And for the first time his relatives explain the answers were in a family photo album all along.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

A sad story of a sad man. RIP Charles Webb,
Click to expand...
Hate to quote myself, but I picked it! Front row, far left!
(I have had some experience at working through old photos comparing faces at different ages, but purely on an amateur basis. I wonder if it's too late to make a career out of it! :laughv1:)
Comparing the junior footy team photo to the deceased Somerton Man photos, he was the standout candidate anyway, IMO, in terms of likeness.
 
geoffjennings79 said:
Hate to quote myself, but I picked it! Front row, far left!
(I have had some experience at working through old photos comparing faces at different ages, but purely on an amateur basis. I wonder if it's too late to make a career out of it! :laughv1:)
Comparing the junior footy team photo to the deceased Somerton Man photos, he was the standout candidate anyway, IMO, in terms of likeness.
Click to expand...
Well picked!
You would be battling it out against AI's, I don't think you should quit your day job.
 
I think the program was interesting, but did you get the impression that the ABC was just treating it all as a closed case, regardless of other things said?

For me there's still many questions unanswered.
And if he poisoned himself, where's the bottle?
And if no one else was involved, where's his wallet?

Here's a few additional questions...

Will SAPol be able to confirm that Somerton Man is Carl Webb?

Was he a spy, or a victim of a conspired killing?
Was there ever a cover up of his identity?
Did the visit of Mi6 soviet mole hunter and Mi6 Australian station chief, Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales to Adelaide weeks earlier, to visit Dr Lica Sprod who had once studied indigenous tribal use of exotic poisions in Indonesia, have anything to do with this case?
Dr Elizabeth Theodora Johanna Stoffelina 'Lica' Sprod (Delprat) is the sister in law of Sir Douglas Mawson, OBE FRS FAA and became the Aunty in law of Robert Hemblys-Scales the following year.

Did he die of natural causes, poisioning, exposure to toxic substances, suicide, assassination or murder?

Were other multiple deaths linked to this case?
Does the book associated with this case influence people to suicidal thought and action?
Who wrote in the book, and what bearing does the code within it have on the case?

What happened to his widow, Dorothy Jean Webb (Robertson) ?
Why did she not identify him?
Who was she associated with at the time? Were they involved in his death?
Why did Dr John Barkly Bennett not recognise his own cousin in law?

What had Jessica Ellen Thomson (Harkness) and or associates have to do with him being in Adelaide and were they involved in his death?

Is his death directly linked to the death of Dr Tibor Káldor (Schön) 2 weeks later?
Tibor was a relative of William Peter Sher (Schlesinger) who was Carl Webb's employer at Red Point Tool Company.
Also related to Sher is Major Sydney Arthur Hunn, OBE, MVO, MC, CdeG, MID who was found deceased from a gun shot to the head in 1942 in the Park in Melbourne opposite the Army Signals Directorate

Are ASIO files related to people at the Red Point Tool Company, Mount Painter geologists, and other associates of Sir Mark Oliphant and communists in government circles connected to this case?
Why does Dr Dwyer, the pathologist involved in this case,appear as a nominated referee in security pass applications to visit Woomera in the ASIO files of the SA Uranium geologist, Dr Reginald Claude Sprigg, BSc, 1942; MSc, 1944; AO 1983, Dr
After he left his planned itinerary for social visits to a senior officer at Woomera why did ASIO approve the following year's security pass application when he nominated Sir Douglas Mawson and Sir Mark Oliphant as referees, but no longer Dr Dwyer?
One of those ASIO files belongs to Dr John Stanley Gooden who died of a disease associated with radiation exposure. Dr Gooden worked with Sir Mark Oliphant in Birmingham and had visited the Manhattan Project. He died within weeks of arriving in Adelaide in 1950. His wife, Claire Russel Crocker (Ward) was Sir Mark Oliphant's private secretary, and she is mentioned in many different ASIO files, yet she never had a file created for herself. Why is that?

You might want to look at all the family trees of all the people connected to the case or previously nominated to be Somerton Man and all the source documents attached to each. Geni also has some impressive software that tells you how person x is related to person y. It's well worth checking out. I've put links to most of these in a project here Somerton Man genealogy project


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Last edited:
Redacted said:
I think the program was interesting, but did you get the impression that the ABC was just treating it all as a closed case, regardless of other things said?

For me there's still many questions unanswered.
And if he poisoned himself, where's the bottle?
And if no one else was involved, where's his wallet?

Here's a few additional questions...

Will SAPol be able to confirm that Somerton Man is Carl Webb?

Was he a spy, or a victim of a conspired killing?
Was there ever a cover up of his identity?
Did the visit of Mi6 soviet mole hunter and Mi6 Australian station chief, Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales to Adelaide weeks earlier, to visit Dr Lica Sprod who had once studied indigenous tribal use of exotic poisions in Indonesia, have anything to do with this case?
Dr Elizabeth Theodora Johanna Stoffelina 'Lica' Sprod (Delprat) is the sister in law of Sir Douglas Mawson, OBE FRS FAA and became the Aunty in law of Robert Hemblys-Scales the following year.

Did he die of natural causes, poisioning, exposure to toxic substances, suicide, assassination or murder?

Were other multiple deaths linked to this case?
Does the book associated with this case influence people to suicidal thought and action?
Who wrote in the book, and what bearing does the code within it have on the case?

What happened to his widow, Dorothy Jean Webb (Robertson) ?
Why did she not identify him?
Who was she associated with at the time? Were they involved in his death?
Why did Dr John Barkly Bennett not recognise his own cousin in law?

What had Jessica Ellen Thomson (Harkness) and or associates have to do this him being in Adelaide and were they involved in his death?

Is his death directly linked to the death of Dr Tibor Káldor (Schön) 2 weeks later?
Tibor was a relative of William Peter Sher (Schlesinger) who was Carl Webb's employer at Red Point Tool Company.
Also related to Sher is Major Sydney Arthur Hunn, OBE, MVO, MC, CdeG, MID who was found deceased from a gun shot to the head in 1942 in the Park in Melbourne opposite the Army Signals Directorate

Are ASIO files related to people at the Red Point Tool Company, Mount Painter geologists, and other associates of Sir Mark Oliphant and communists in government circles connected to this case?
Why does Dr Dwyer, the pathologist involved in this case,appear as a nominated referee in security pass applications to visit Woomera in the ASIO files of the SA Uranium geologist, Dr Reginald Claude Sprigg, BSc, 1942; MSc, 1944; AO 1983, Dr
After he left his planned itinerary for social visits to a senior officer at Woomera why did ASIO approve the following year's security pass application when he nominated Sir Douglas Mawson and Sir Mark Oliphant as referees, but no longer Dr Dwyer?
One of those ASIO files belongs to Dr John Stanley Gooden who died of a disease associated with radiation exposure. Dr Gooden worked with Sir Mark Oliphant in Birmingham and had visited the Manhattan Project. He died within weeks of arriving in Adelaide in 1950. His wife, Claire Russel Crocker (Ward) was Sir Mark Oliphant's private secretary, and she is mentioned in many different ASIO files, yet she never had a file created for herself. Why is that?

You might want to look at all the family trees of all the people connected to the case or previously nominated to be Somerton Man and all the source documents attached to each. Geni also has some impressive software that tells you how person x is related to person y. It's well worth checking out. I've put links to most of these in a project here Somerton Man genealogy project


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Click to expand...
Well, i for one was almost ready to put this mystery to bed, then you come along with this!! Great post - Thank you.
 
3 people associated with William Sher, Carl Webb's employer at Red Point Tool Company allegedly committed suicide?
Tibor Káldor, Carl Webb and Major Hunn.
And now I can't find any records of what happened to possibly a 4th.
www.geni.com

Erich Schlesinger

Genealogy profile for Erich Schlesinger
www.geni.com www.geni.com

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Cramer and Pelling's websites both reflecting views that the photos on Australian Story of Carl Webb don't appear to match the Police photos of the corpse of Somerton Man. It appears that the ears are different enough to raise doubts about whether the body is Carl Webb.

www.abc.net.au

'It's a sad story': Family of Somerton Man reveal why he was found dead on the beach

For seven decades the Somerton Man was simply known by his anonymous autopsy photo. But now he has a name — Charles Webb. And for the first time his relatives explain the answers were in a family photo album all along.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

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Last edited:
Redacted said:
Cramer and Pelling's websites both reflecting views that the photos on Australian Story of Carl Webb don't appear to match the Police photos of the corpse of Somerton Man. It appears that the ears are different enough to raise doubts about whether the body is Carl Webb.

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Click to expand...
It appears that the picture bandied about by Australian Story is more likely to be of his older brother Russell Webb's family and the two boys would then be Charles and Norman.
Does anyone have pictures to confirm that the ABC made a mistake?

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Redacted said:
It appears that the picture bandied about by Australian Story is more likely to be of his older brother Russell Webb's family and the two boys would then be Charles and Norman.
Does anyone have pictures to confirm that the ABC made a mistake?

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Click to expand...
I think they were using Ancestry on Australian Story. May not be the same as Geni?
 
FTY1 said:
I think they were using Ancestry on Australian Story. May not be the same as Geni?
Click to expand...
Yes, they're using a sandboxed tree. I've tried to recreate it by merging already pre-existent geni trees, and adding further profiles that are already pre-existent from familysearch.org
So far with a fair degree of luck and corrections made from hints that Professor Abbott and Colleen Fitzpatrick had made in public statements.
This way we should all be able to verify their claims and give a legacy to Carl Webb's family.
A vaild theory must have the ability to recreate and replicate the outcome.
As there is no known source for Carl's DNA, such as his actual toothbrush, the current theory relies upon guessing that SM is Carl due to the proximity of DNA matches with living relatives and the discovery of family members that appear to of disappeared in 1948. The professor asserts that Carl is the only person to fit the bill. Whether that's true or not can only be tested upto a percentage of certainty. After all, not all births are recorded with the correct father attributed, which means we can never be 100% certain.

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Last edited:
Redacted said:
It appears that the picture bandied about by Australian Story is more likely to be of his older brother Russell Webb's family and the two boys would then be Charles and Norman.
Does anyone have pictures to confirm that the ABC made a mistake?

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
A pictures of Carl's nephew, Charles Russell Webb from his army record
77944aac77646ddf8c44f88406c36cf3.jpg


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Redacted said:
The greatest secret that was kept.


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Click to expand...


Extract from Colossus: The Secrets of Bletchley Park's Codebreaking Computers

Until the 1970s few had any idea that electronic computation had been used successfully during the Second World War. In 1975, the British government released a set of captioned photographs of the Colossi. By 1983, Flowers had received clearance to publish an account of the hardware of the first Colossus. Details of the later Colossi remained secret. So, even more importantly, did all information about how Flowers’ computing machinery was actually used by the codebreakers. Flowers was told by the British authorities that “the technical description of machines such as COLOSSUS may be disclosed”, but that he must not disclose any information about “the functions which they performed”. It was rather like being told that he could give a detailed technical description of the insides of a radar receiver, but must not say anything about what the equipment did (in the case of radar, reveal the location of planes, submarines, etc., by picking up radio waves bouncing off them). He was also allowed to describe some aspects of Tunny—but there was a blanket prohibition on saying anything at all relating to “the weaknesses which led to our successes”. In fact, a clandestine censor objected to parts of the account that Flowers wrote, and he was instructed to remove these prior to publication.

There matters more or less stood until 1996, when the U.S. Government declassified some wartime documents describing the function of Colossus. These had been sent to Washington during the war by U.S. liaison officers stationed at Bletchley Park. Even so, a vital report remained classified. 500 pages in length and called General Report on Tunny, this was written in 1945 by three Bletchley Park codebreakers, Jack Good, Donald Michie, and Geoffrey Timms. Thanks largely to Michie’s tireless campaigning, the report was declassified by the British Government in June 2000, finally ending the secrecy. The full report is available electronically on this book’s companion website www.AlanTuring.net/tunny_report.



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Last edited:
Imagine being told in 1945 that you have to keep something that you invented secret forever.
And 1,200 others that knew about it were also sworn to permanent secrecy.
And then Winston Churchill orders the destruction of your inventions.
www.wikitree.com

Thomas Harold Flowers (1905-1998) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

Is this your ancestor? Explore genealogy for Tommy Flowers born 1905 Poplar, London, England died 1998 Mill Hill, London, England including ancestors + more in the free family tree community.
www.wikitree.com www.wikitree.com
6a1b8ea6cc2b29e20ab4c4554e312aa7.jpg


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www.smh.com.au

Code of silence lifts on World War II's crack unit

The families of female code-breakers knew nothing of their cryptoanalysis.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

Joan's work was not in the jungles of New Guinea nor in London during the Blitz, it was in a long-since-demolished building in the Melbourne suburb of Albert Park which was known as ''Monterey Flats''.

She was involved in cracking codes used by the Japanese to try to ensure their battle plans gave them the advantage of surprise. Consequently, the efforts of people who cracked those codes and then were able to keep the work secret, have since been credited with shortening the war by years.

''We were not even able to tell our families,'' said Joan. ''When anyone asked we just said we worked as a writer, they thought we were secretaries or something.'' Such was the secrecy that each person in a section was entrusted with just a small piece of the jigsaw. ''We were presented with what looked like a jumble of letters and numbers and we spent our shift sorting them into some sort of order, which was the raw code that was then passed on to the next section.

''If there was a flap on, such as the Japanese moving their ships, they would virtually pull it out of your hands and run down the corridor.''

The whole jigsaw was known by only a handful at the very top and this knowledge was considered so vital that in the upper echelon's offices there was said to be a cupboard containing pistols. They were not for self-defence.

Most at Joan's level believed if Australia was invaded and there was a chance the people with the full picture were captured, they were to be shot.

''We came to understand that the seniors were not to fall into enemy hands. The story about them having to be shot was hearsay, but we believed it.''
b323222f594e86b9899073598b6d2279.jpg


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