Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Redacted]

Apparently when Carl's sister, Gladys Scott, died intestate someone in the family thought that Carl had been living and working in Cottesloe Western Australia as an electrician. And so an advertisement was put in newspapers by the family's solicitors to find him for the purposes of completing the disbursement of funds.



Here are the relevant parts extracted from a comment by "Jo" on Ciphermysteries.com

Gladys died intestate in July 1955.

As she didn’t have a will, the money in Gladys’ bank account and the money from the sale of a Commonwealth Bond was divided up between husband and Webb relatives:
50% to her husband Leslie William Scott
50% divided between Freda Keane, Doris Martin, Carl Webb and the children of Russell Webb: Doris Tomlinson, Ethel Holland, Charles Webb and Norman Webb.

The probate document indicates that on August 23 1956 (the date of the document) the Webbs believed that Charlie was alive (in Cottesloe?). The lawyers, H. H. Hoare, put out a newspaper advertisement in the Age on 22 October 1958

“Carl Webb, formerly of Cottesloe, Western Australia, Electrican – Would he or anyone knowing his whereabouts or death write to the undersigned who has information of benefit to Carl Webb in connection with the estate of his sister, Gladys May Scott.”




To me then the most probable place to look at would've been the cable station. Did Carl ever work there though?

Here are some links to background stories on the Cable Station.

Cape to WA cable

Cottesloe Cable Station – OTVA Member's Blog

www.otva.com

Possibly related>

COTTESLOE POST OFFICE AND TELEPHONE EXCHANGE

Gold discoveries in the 1890s brought great wealth to the state, and saw Cottesloe develop as one of the prestigious suburbs of Perth. Its residents demanded better facilities, including a postal s…

cottesloehistory.wordpress.com

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[Redacted]

For those that are interested in possible underworld links to the Somerton Man mystery this article might give you more insight into the underworld of 1947

Trial briefs sealed for 75 years highlight deadly feud in the Sydney and Melbourne underworld

Newly opened trial briefs sealed for decades offer insight into shootings and revenge attacks in Sydney and Melbourne's criminal underbelly in the 1940s.

www.abc.net.au

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[zedx]

For those that are interested in possible underworld links to the Somerton Man mystery this article might give you more insight into the underworld of 1947

Trial briefs sealed for 75 years highlight deadly feud in the Sydney and Melbourne underworld

Newly opened trial briefs sealed for decades offer insight into shootings and revenge attacks in Sydney and Melbourne's criminal underbelly in the 1940s.

www.abc.net.au

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Great article thanks

 

[Redacted]

This might interest some

https://www.naa.gov.au/visit-us/events-and-exhibitions/spy-espionage-australia

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[squawk]

Di

The C Webb in the football photos would probably be the same bloke who played the Superintendent Hare part in the Glenrowan Affair, since it was made using football players and their friends as actors.

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Did anyone ever get to the bottom of this? If it is the same Webb that was acting in this movie there would be motion pictures to be studied in addition to the limited number of still photos…

 

[squawk]

Di

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of this? If it is the same Webb that was acting in this movie there would be motion pictures to be studied in addition to the limited number of still photos…

It looks like there was a film shot in 1947 that never eventuated with a release. Then in 1951, The Glenrowan Affair was shot. However, both films seem to have the same lead actor, Bob Chitty (ex-Carlton player). So maybe some footage from 1947 was used in 1951?

https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1761358/gaunson.pdf

 

[squawk]

Well…this could blow the Carl Webb hypothesis out of the water!

CARL WEBB IS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN: THE PROOF IS INDISPUTABLE...UPDATED THE SECOND VIDEO January 18th

The very latest news, views, evidence, and facts on the Somerton Man Mystery from the leading Australian-based blog. The blog that cracked the code...

tamamshud.blogspot.com

 

[MSB ROYS]

Well…this could blow the Carl Webb hypothesis out of the water!

CARL WEBB IS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN: THE PROOF IS INDISPUTABLE...UPDATED THE SECOND VIDEO January 18th

The very latest news, views, evidence, and facts on the Somerton Man Mystery from the leading Australian-based blog. The blog that cracked the code...

tamamshud.blogspot.com

Unless the original picture showed an inflamed ear or something different.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Interesting to find out why the Somerton Man was wearing clothes belonging to Carl Webb's brother-in-law then? Did Carl Webb have a secret twin?

 

[squawk]

Prof Derek Abbott has just done a podcast with an American - the link is available on his “identifying the Somerton Man” Facebook page. It goes for two hours but in it he basically states that he is expecting SAPOL to submit their report to the Coroner imminently and that he is of the understanding that their inquiries have determined the same identity as he has.

IF this is the case - it will be interesting to see how SAPOL and Forensic Science SA have gone about their tasks. The account of taxidermist Paul Lawson is that the skull was “a new skull” when he made the bust. So from the start - did the exhumed body have 18 missing teeth or not, and has the DNA of the skull been matched with the DNA of the body?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Prof Derek Abbott has just done a podcast with an American - the link is available on his “identifying the Somerton Man” Facebook page. It goes for two hours but in it he basically states that he is expecting SAPOL to submit their report to the Coroner imminently and that he is of the understanding that their inquiries have determined the same identity as he has.

IF this is the case - it will be interesting to see how SAPOL and Forensic Science SA have gone about their tasks. The account of taxidermist Paul Lawson is that the skull was “a new skull” when he made the bust. So from the start - did the exhumed body have 18 missing teeth or not, and has the DNA of the skull been matched with the DNA of the body?

If it's not Carl Webb, are you suggesting the deceased also knew Carl Webb's brother-in-law/nephew, or that the "Keane" labels are a coincidence?

 

[zedx]

Seems to be a lot of conflicting information, wish we could just get a final answer.

 

[squawk]

If it's not Carl Webb, are you suggesting the deceased also knew Carl Webb's brother-in-law/nephew, or that the "Keane" labels are a coincidence?

Unfortunately I have more questions than answers! At a basic level, I’m just unsure if the SM and Carl Webb are the same person, or if there were two bodies that have become intertwined in this story…

 

[EyeMedia]

I have heard that there is someone in Adelaide who claims that his father was involved in the Somerton Man case and the Beaumont kids case. If he knows something, he should really be on this forum telling us everything... and telling the police!

 

[metic]

I have heard that there is someone in Adelaide who claims that his father was involved in the Somerton Man case and the Beaumont kids case. If he knows something, he should really be on this forum telling us everything... and telling the police!

Is that found on the Facebook website ?

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[utility]

I have heard that there is someone in Adelaide who claims that his father was involved in the Somerton Man case and the Beaumont kids case. If he knows something, he should really be on this forum telling us everything... and telling the police!

* the police, he just needs a BF account.

 

[Redacted]

I have heard that there is someone in Adelaide who claims that his father was involved in the Somerton Man case and the Beaumont kids case. If he knows something, he should really be on this forum telling us everything... and telling the police!

I believe that the person you refer to is, and had posted upon, this forum previously about the HC Reynolds ID card being found under the floorboards in their dad's old house etc

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[Kurve]

I have heard that there is someone in Adelaide who claims that his father was involved in the Somerton Man case and the Beaumont kids case. If he knows something, he should really be on this forum telling us everything... and telling the police!

Is that found on the Facebook website ?

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

It's Andrew McIntyre EyeMedia is referring to and his two siblings, who have tried to promote their father as in the know and/or involved in more than one high profile crime. Primarily the Beaumont children and the Somerton Man but the Family murders and the murder of Eloise Worlege also comes in.

With the solving of the Somerton Man's identity, the story they made up about finding his ID and their father involved is proved to be absolute nonsense.

Further, the police have had to make more than one statement to state that their claims regards the Beaumont children have been fully investigated finding zero evidence to support their claims.

 

[Redacted]

Some stuff to fill in the time...

The Nazi spy who infiltrated ABC radio

Many listeners to ABC Radio do not realise a Nazi spy once graced the airwaves and may have sent encoded messages in French before World War II began.

www.abc.net.au

Former spy says Soviet mole infiltrated ASIO

A former ASIO spy breaks a 46-year silence with claims a Soviet agent penetrated the Australian security agency at the height of the Cold War.

www.abc.net.au

ASIO Sparrow Anne Neill was a 'secret service housewife' who lived an incredible double life - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

Anne Neill: Australia's first secret agent invited behind the iron curtain | History books | The Guardian

How was a widow from South Australia drawn into espionage, counterespionage and a 1952 visit to Moscow? <strong>David Horner</strong> explains in this exclusive extract from his new history of Asio

amp.theguardian.com

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/never-before-seen-asio-reports-on-symons-family/image-gallery/ba4f9aa9ca90ad1a6d9305820feb5ac6

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[Kurve]

Well…this could blow the Carl Webb hypothesis out of the water!

CARL WEBB IS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN: THE PROOF IS INDISPUTABLE...UPDATED THE SECOND VIDEO January 18th

The very latest news, views, evidence, and facts on the Somerton Man Mystery from the leading Australian-based blog. The blog that cracked the code...

tamamshud.blogspot.com

A conspiracy, what a surprise.

Similar happened when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his cell and some tried to promote the idea that the body taken out of the cell wasn't Epstein because from an image, his nose in death was slightly different to images of his younger nose in life.

 

[squawk]

A conspiracy, what a surprise.

Similar happened when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his cell and some tried to promote the idea that the body taken out of the cell wasn't Epstein because from an image, his nose in death was slightly different to images of his younger nose in life.

I’m not of the view that this reaches “conspiracy” levels at all. I’ve maintained an open mind and if you know that the blog is led by a former police officer and you look at the analysis of primary source information - including interviews with the taxidermist, for example - it offers a comprehensive look at the case in a way in which many others haven’t.

 

[GreyCrow]

Well…this could blow the Carl Webb hypothesis out of the water!

CARL WEBB IS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN: THE PROOF IS INDISPUTABLE...UPDATED THE SECOND VIDEO January 18th

The very latest news, views, evidence, and facts on the Somerton Man Mystery from the leading Australian-based blog. The blog that cracked the code...

tamamshud.blogspot.com

I always focussed on the ears - they are a good indicator of proof ( if available)

I'd be interested in how they resolved the DNA - what processes were used both forensically and genealogically

 

[Gordon1552]

A conspiracy, what a surprise.

Similar happened when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his cell and some tried to promote the idea that the body taken out of the cell wasn't Epstein because from an image, his nose in death was slightly different to images of his younger nose in life.

In the case of Carl Webb, his left ear at both 12 years of age and then mid-20s were the same, they tapered into the side of the upper jaw whereas the Somerton Man's left ear is a square join, not tapered at all. Further, the two detectives who assisted Paul Lawson in the creation of the bust did not have their DNA tested, and neither for that matter was Dr. Bennet's DNA tested albeit his interaction with the body of the man was some months earlier.

What is known is that Paul Lawson was adamant that he had used the post-autopsy photographs of the Somerton Man to create the face of the plaster bust. ipso facto, we do not know what the face of the body, on which Paul built the bust, looked like. We also know that Paul did not measure the height of the body he worked on so we cannot say that the body concerned was 5 ' 11", the known height of the Somerton Man. Another known fact is that Dr.Dwyer, the man who performed the autopsy on the Somerton Man, took a dental chart that showed that he had 18 teeth missing, all the molars, the chewing teeth. And amongst the possessions found on the Somerton Man, a part packet of Wrigley's Juicy Fruit chewing gum was found. At the very least the Police should be able to produce the jaw and skull of the exhumed remains and produce the dental chart for comparison. It is only then that you would be able to confidently say that the exhumed remains are those of the Somerton Man. These are all substantiated facts and here's another Forensic Scientist Dr. Xanthe Mallett, who stated quite clearly in the ABC program, that, being a forensic scientist, she did not think that they would ever be able to identify the Somerton Man.

I am not aware of exactly what procedures were followed in harvesting the hair samples for DNA analysis, I have been told that the samples were taken from the back of the head which is at odds with the photograph, below, of a member of Professor Abbot's team, retrieving samples from the eyebrows. The question that arises is this, were samples taken from different locations on the body and precisely when in terms of date and time, which samples were tested and which were not, and why.

In short, I have produced good reasons for questioning the process thus far and the evidence I have put forward has been substantiated, and to reinforce that I have attached the comparison images of the young Carl, the older Carl and the Somerton Man for you to assess the differences. Professor Abbott is on record as saying that there are differences but they could be explained by the fact that ears change as we age. I researched that statement and the reality is that our ear lobes grow longer becoming more noticeable at the age of 60 or thereabouts. Interestingly these changes occur at 8 to 10-year intervals. I have been able to obtain photographs showing the progress and effects of age on the human ear. I will be posting them shortly.

I think we all would like to see the case to a conclusion but it must be correct and the evidence put forward here casts serious doubt about the claim that Carl Webb is the Somerton Man. That claim is not supported by evidence.

It is absolutely your right to comment and state your views but I would ask if you could point out to me just where you think I am promoting a conspiracy theory.

 

[Kurve]

In the case of Carl Webb, his left ear at both 12 years of age and then mid-20s were the same, they tapered into the side of the upper jaw whereas the Somerton Man's left ear is a square join, not tapered at all. Further, the two detectives who assisted Paul Lawson in the creation of the bust did not have their DNA tested, and neither for that matter was Dr. Bennet's DNA tested albeit his interaction with the body of the man was some months earlier.

What is known is that Paul Lawson was adamant that he had used the post-autopsy photographs of the Somerton Man to create the face of the plaster bust. ipso facto, we do not know what the face of the body, on which Paul built the bust, looked like. We also know that Paul did not measure the height of the body he worked on so we cannot say that the body concerned was 5 ' 11", the known height of the Somerton Man. Another known fact is that Dr.Dwyer, the man who performed the autopsy on the Somerton Man, took a dental chart that showed that he had 18 teeth missing, all the molars, the chewing teeth. And amongst the possessions found on the Somerton Man, a part packet of Wrigley's Juicy Fruit chewing gum was found. At the very least the Police should be able to produce the jaw and skull of the exhumed remains and produce the dental chart for comparison. It is only then that you would be able to confidently say that the exhumed remains are those of the Somerton Man. These are all substantiated facts and here's another Forensic Scientist Dr. Xanthe Mallett, who stated quite clearly in the ABC program, that, being a forensic scientist, she did not think that they would ever be able to identify the Somerton Man.

I am not aware of exactly what procedures were followed in harvesting the hair samples for DNA analysis, I have been told that the samples were taken from the back of the head which is at odds with the photograph, below, of a member of Professor Abbot's team, retrieving samples from the eyebrows. The question that arises is this, were samples taken from different locations on the body and precisely when in terms of date and time, which samples were tested and which were not, and why.

In short, I have produced good reasons for questioning the process thus far and the evidence I have put forward has been substantiated, and to reinforce that I have attached the comparison images of the young Carl, the older Carl and the Somerton Man for you to assess the differences. Professor Abbott is on record as saying that there are differences but they could be explained by the fact that ears change as we age. I researched that statement and the reality is that our ear lobes grow longer becoming more noticeable at the age of 60 or thereabouts. Interestingly these changes occur at 8 to 10-year intervals. I have been able to obtain photographs showing the progress and effects of age on the human ear. I will be posting them shortly.

I think we all would like to see the case to a conclusion but it must be correct and the evidence put forward here casts serious doubt about the claim that Carl Webb is the Somerton Man. That claim is not supported by evidence.

It is absolutely your right to comment and state your views but I would ask if you could point out to me just where you think I am promoting a conspiracy theory.


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Same ears in all three pics imo. You're comparing the same person at differing times, upright living and dead lying in a prone position for possibly days.

The ears 'looking' different imo, is not conclusive proof as your headline implies, that Carl Webb isn't the Somerton Man but am looking forward to the Coroner's findings.

It would be great if they moved it along.

 

[Gordon1552]

Same ears in all three pics imo. You're comparing the same person at differing times, upright living and dead lying in a prone position for possibly days.

The ears 'looking' different imo, is not conclusive proof as your headline implies, that Carl Webb isn't the Somerton Man but am looking forward to the Coroner's findings.

It would be great if they moved it along.

We can agree to differ on the ears Seriously, I base my view on having seen many deceased persons in my earlier life and on the training I received as a Police officer including time with CID and SOCO. {please don't take offense it's not intended that way. I have a collection of images and comparisons between various ages which I will dig out.)

It is puzzling just why there is a delay in releasing findings although I know they have budgetary constraints. However, according to Police documents, the funding for the exercise was provided by the Commonwealth fund that was specifically set up to pay for the identification of deceased persons via DNA.

We have to see what happens but one thing is certain, we do have Dr. Dwyer's dental chart known to be taken of the Somerton Man's teeth. The exhumed remains, as per Des Bray's comments were in good condition which suggests that the skull and jawbones in particular should contain teeth that exactly match the chart taken by Dr.Dwyer.

Hope you're having a good weekend!