Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Redacted]

There was a Joseph Webb residing at number 2 Loma Street, Cottesloe, Western Australia, according to this directory, so maybe if Carl was ever in Cottesloe, maybe he stayed with a relative? However, there's no evidence other than the newspaper advertisement after his sister's death. And how did that belief come about? View attachment 0088.pdf

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[EyeMedia]

It's Andrew McIntyre EyeMedia is referring to and his two siblings, who have tried to promote their father as in the know and/or involved in more than one high profile crime. Primarily the Beaumont children and the Somerton Man but the Family murders and the murder of Eloise Worlege also comes in.

With the solving of the Somerton Man's identity, the story they made up about finding his ID and their father involved is proved to be absolute nonsense.

Further, the police have had to make more than one statement to state that their claims regards the Beaumont children have been fully investigated finding zero evidence to support their claims.

These McIntyre people you speak of, it seems they are claiming family involvement in a bunch of very serious crimes.

Why on earth would they do that? (Admit guilt, I mean.)

I can't understand why they would 'admit' to stuff, especially if their family or family members were not involved. Can somebody explain this?

 

[Kurve]

I can't understand why they would 'admit' to stuff, especially if their family or family members were not involved. Can somebody explain this?

Who really knows but it seems like their (deceased) true crime buff father told a lot of stories they may have believed and added on to over the years. There might also be an attraction in collecting big rewards on the solving of high profile crimes, up to $3m on the Beaumont children.

 

[Redacted]

Who really knows but it seems like their (deceased) true crime buff father told a lot of stories they may have believed and added on to over the years. There might also be an attraction in collecting big rewards on the solving of high profile crimes, up to $3m on the Beaumont children.

Fame and infamy seem to be just different sides of the same coin to some people I suppose

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[CD Xbow]

Left at the beach a sculpture and a birthday card reading 'Happy Birthday to the real 'Somerton Man', Carl Josef Halban, Milliner, sailor, communist, spy. Our birthday wish for you is for the truth to come out. Austria is calling you home.' This was done by a former Adelaide lawyer Sophie Holsman who left the note on behalf of Mr Halban's family.

Bizarre birthday note claims 'real' identity of mystery Somerton Man

A bizarre birthday message and bunch of flowers left on a sculpture of a man sitting at a beach in South Australia claims that the real Somerton Man was an Austrian communist and spy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

IIRC Carl Josef Halban was discussed earlier in this thread.

Carl Josef Halban

Genealogy profile for Carl Josef Halban

www.geni.com

 

[GreyCrow]

Struggling to match them up

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

It's most likely Carl Webb a German immigrant who was suicidal and gambled and he poisoned himself.
The 'coded' words were probably to do witj horses he was backing.

'Through investigative genetic genealogy, matches were found for descendants of two distant cousins of Webb, both on the paternal and on the maternal side.[110][111]'

It's on wikipedia.

 

[CD Xbow]

View attachment 1807011

Struggling to match them up

Other than the hair, the face shape, the nose and the ears, they are a perfect match!!!

 

[Redacted]

In early December 2023, SAPOL made public an update on the progress of the Forensic Analysis of the exhumed remains of the Somerton Man. The news came from SAPOL Media Section and was picked up on by Peter bowes



‘Since the exhumation of the remains of Somerton Man two years ago, SAPOL in partnership with the AFP and FSSA, has engaged with forensic specialists here, interstate, and overseas to assist in the identification process. The DNA work on the Somerton Man’s remains was recently completed with analysis of these results to be reported to the State Coroner in the final report along with completed Forensic Anthropology and Forensic Odontology reports, and results of some outstanding forensic analysis that will be completed soon.’

Courtesy of Gordon1552

SOMERTON MAN, THE TAMAMSHUD MYSTERY; A LITTLE LESS MYSTERY…

The very latest news, views, evidence, and facts on the Somerton Man Mystery from the leading Australian-based blog. The blog that cracked the code...

tamamshud.blogspot.com

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[zedx]

Any one see this before?? (comment from above article)
......Between November 17th and December 13th in Australia, 3 men died under highly suspicious circumstances. Michael Goreloff in Sydney, the man on the beach at Somerton and just 35 minutes away in Hinkley Street, Adelaide Tibor Kaldor is found dead. Poison was the cause for the last two men and the 6 foot tall Mr Goreloff was found hanging from a 4 foot 6 inch high sapling. Michael and Tibor both left last letters, a tally a very short note in Michael’s case. In both those letters an acrostic coded name was found, DANETTA. In the case of the Somerton Man, the code page when configured as 7 lines each beginning with the letter M, that same 7 letter acrostic name, DANETTA, appears.

In Michael’s case his last note has 7 lines as does the first paragraph of Tibor Kaldor’s last letter.

Interestingly, Verse 70, the verse from the Rubaiyat written by the nurse Jestyn in the book she gave to Army Lieutenant Alf Boxall, also contains the acrostic code name DANETTA. In fact another death in 1945, that of George Marshall, the same code name DANETTA was found in verse 23 of the Rubaiyat which was found open on his chest . There are only 4 verses in the Rubaiyat that contain that name and two of them were found with dead men both of whom died of poisoning......

 

[Gordon1552]

I think Redacted posted here some time ago about the apparent height similarity between Roy and Carl Webb. It was about the 'family group of 4' used to push the boat out for the Carl Webb DNA which claimed that he was the Somerton Man. We only had height information from Roy Webb via his NAA Army Service record. That file contained an image of Roy against the usual Height rule and he was 5 feet 8 inches (1727.2mm) tall so while many made educated guesses about Carl Webb's height there was no real substantiation available for those claims. It looked like they were the same height but that doesn't qualify as evidence.
Last week work was undertaken as a result of two interesting coincidences. One was related to a WW2 documentary that showed amongst several fascinating things, the workings of an aerial reconnaissance unit, it told a story of how one aircraft had been able to snap photos of a rocket launch site and spotted a small airframe structure with a 20-foot wingspan and it was check measured on the actual photograph. This dimension coincided with a report they had previously received from a resistance member who had specifically mentioned the wingspan of 20 feet. The aerial photo confirmed the information and the site was successfully bombed. The key was they had a known dimension. Part two of the coincidences was a document found on Researchgate ( https://www.researchgate.net/figure...times-his-her-heads-height-the_fig2_224674276) It described a ratio that was applied by security vision systems to aid identification of persons ina coverage area. The ratio was 8:1, specifically the full height of a person was 8 times the height of that individual's head.
The penny dropped and the 'family group of 4' photo was examined in detail and measurements were taken of both Roy's and Carl's head heights on that photograph. They both had head heights of 52 mm. The 52 mm was multiplied by 8 to get their respective full heights as suggested in the Researchgate document. That gave a photographic full height for both men of 416 mm photo height. The next step was to get the full-scale height by dividing the known full height of Roy Webb, 1727.2 mm by the 416 mm photo height which gave us a scale of 1:4.15. That equates to 1727.2 mm for both men. That means that Carl Webb at 5 feet 8 inches was 3 inches shorter than the known height of the Somerton Man of 5 feet 11 inches. How can Carl Webb be the Somerton Man?

Hope this post is OK Admin?


the Somerton Man?

 

[FTY1]

I think Redacted posted here some time ago about the apparent height similarity between Roy and Carl Webb. It was about the 'family group of 4' used to push the boat out for the Carl Webb DNA which claimed that he was the Somerton Man. We only had height information from Roy Webb via his NAA Army Service record. That file contained an image of Roy against the usual Height rule and he was 5 feet 8 inches (1727.2mm) tall so while many made educated guesses about Carl Webb's height there was no real substantiation available for those claims. It looked like they were the same height but that doesn't qualify as evidence.
Last week work was undertaken as a result of two interesting coincidences. One was related to a WW2 documentary that showed amongst several fascinating things, the workings of an aerial reconnaissance unit, it told a story of how one aircraft had been able to snap photos of a rocket launch site and spotted a small airframe structure with a 20-foot wingspan and it was check measured on the actual photograph. This dimension coincided with a report they had previously received from a resistance member who had specifically mentioned the wingspan of 20 feet. The aerial photo confirmed the information and the site was successfully bombed. The key was they had a known dimension. Part two of the coincidences was a document found on Researchgate ( https://www.researchgate.net/figure...times-his-her-heads-height-the_fig2_224674276) It described a ratio that was applied by security vision systems to aid identification of persons ina coverage area. The ratio was 8:1, specifically the full height of a person was 8 times the height of that individual's head.
The penny dropped and the 'family group of 4' photo was examined in detail and measurements were taken of both Roy's and Carl's head heights on that photograph. They both had head heights of 52 mm. The 52 mm was multiplied by 8 to get their respective full heights as suggested in the Researchgate document. That gave a photographic full height for both men of 416 mm photo height. The next step was to get the full-scale height by dividing the known full height of Roy Webb, 1727.2 mm by the 416 mm photo height which gave us a scale of 1:4.15. That equates to 1727.2 mm for both men. That means that Carl Webb at 5 feet 8 inches was 3 inches shorter than the known height of the Somerton Man of 5 feet 11 inches. How can Carl Webb be the Somerton Man?

Hope this post is OK Admin?


View attachment 1925125View attachment 1925128 the Somerton Man?

Should be okay Gordon.

 

[Gordon1552]

Should be okay Gordon.

Thanks Admin

 

[FTY1]

Not Admin lol. Just not the same degree of proof as other sites.

Thanks Admin

 

[Gordon1552]

I mentioned the video I had watched that covered the aerial reconnaissance operations in WW2. I should tell you that it is a compilation of several videos that include guided rockets, the first fighter jets, the reconstruction of the defusing of a German magnetic mine, and some amazing information about Enigma, when the British handled the first machine and exactly how the Bletchley Park 'BOMBE' worked. It is a lengthy video, almost 5 hours. I watched in 4 sessions, well worth the effort. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUSaY6Kbwp-_7MyLyDZ6Av4ljXsz0h_By

 

[Redacted]

This is how the news articles from last year should have been written.

Mystery Solved? DNA Tentatively Identifies Somerton Man

The Somerton Beach man mystery has baffled authorities and mystery buffs for decades, but DNA researchers have finally put a tentative name to the man found dead on Somerton Beach in 1948.

people.howstuffworks.com

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[Gordon1552]

Another update on the matter of Ratios and the height of Roy and Carl Webb. In the last day I had reason to dig a little deeper and the first article found that supported the 1:8 ratio was this one:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Body-proportions-the-height-of-a-person-is-about-eight-times-his-her-heads-height-the_fig2_224674276

It was a good article but it was pointed out to me that it was more of an artists site and the ratio was one used by artists in the main.

Not satisfied with that so I dug deeper and found a 5 Year Scientific study that 3D body scanned 63,375 males between the ages of 19 to 21 and 1375 females in the same age group. The study was undertaken in the USA at a Texas USAF base, and the focus was new recruits. The study found that indeed the ratio of head height to full height was 1:8. Full marks to the artists!
Interestingly the purpose of the study was to test the Vitruvian Man or 'Golden Ratio' proposed by da Vinci and it found that in fact da Vinci was 10% out.

The bottom line is that according to this find and confirmation of the 1:8 ratio, then Carl Webb cannot be the Somerton Man, he is 3 inches shorter than the Somerton Man's 5 feet 11 inches which was recorded by Police on the day his body was found on Somerton beach.

Here's the link to the Scientific study for those interested:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7284298/

 

[Gordon1552]

For anyone interested in following up on the Fedosimov story, here's an online book account of where he first cropped up. The book is called Atom Spies, the page number is 43 and whilst Fedosimov is not mentioned by name, that was found later in the FBI files which filled in the blanks. He met with Harry Gold in the first-floor foyer of the Earl Theatre in the Bronx on December 26th 1946. A good description of him is included. You never know, he may just be still in contention for being the Somerton Man
The atom spies

 

[CD Xbow]

Another update on the matter of Ratios and the height of Roy and Carl Webb. In the last day I had reason to dig a little deeper and the first article found that supported the 1:8 ratio was this one:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Body-proportions-the-height-of-a-person-is-about-eight-times-his-her-heads-height-the_fig2_224674276

It was a good article but it was pointed out to me that it was more of an artists site and the ratio was one used by artists in the main.

Not satisfied with that so I dug deeper and found a 5 Year Scientific study that 3D body scanned 63,375 males between the ages of 19 to 21 and 1375 females in the same age group. The study was undertaken in the USA at a Texas USAF base, and the focus was new recruits. The study found that indeed the ratio of head height to full height was 1:8. Full marks to the artists!
Interestingly the purpose of the study was to test the Vitruvian Man or 'Golden Ratio' proposed by da Vinci and it found that in fact da Vinci was 10% out.

The bottom line is that according to this find and confirmation of the 1:8 ratio, then Carl Webb cannot be the Somerton Man, he is 3 inches shorter than the Somerton Man's 5 feet 11 inches which was recorded by Police on the day his body was found on Somerton beach.

Here's the link to the Scientific study for those interested:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7284298/

Art schools teach 7 to 8 heads. The second article says the average ratio (head/body) for men is 0.14 which is to my understanding is closer to 1:7 (0.143). I could be wrong, I have posted erroneous mathematical calculation before. Also the second study uses fit, young recruits who are not representative of the general population. Peoples posture changes with age and they loose height for a variety of reasons. Also estimating head size from photos can be difficult because of the variable position of the head and neck. How do your figures work out with a ratio of 1:7?

 

[Gordon1552]

Art schools teach 7 to 8 heads. The second article says the average ratio (head/body) for men is 0.14 which is to my understanding is closer to 1:7 (0.143). I could be wrong, I have posted erroneous mathematical calculation before. Also the second study uses fit, young recruits who are not representative of the general population. Peoples posture changes with age and they loose height for a variety of reasons. Also estimating head size from photos can be difficult because of the variable position of the head and neck. How do your figures work out with a ratio of 1:7?

You are correct of course. In the table found on the link, it quotes 1:8 for the 'Golden Ratio' ex da Vinci expressed as .125 and the study found the ratio was .14. All sorts of people get to be recruits and I would agree that many of them would be fit and active people with some not as fit as others. But, the numbers involved as in 6300 + would even that out you would think.

Regarding the photograph and the taking of measurements from one, it is a common enough practice provided that you have a known and confirmed measurement as your guide. In the case of Roy Webb, we have his army photograph in full face and profile and it shows him as being 5 feet 8 inches. Attached is the NAA photo below. He seems to be standing up fairly straight maybe a little to one side. At this point, you can use whichever ratio you choose, .125,.14, or 1:7. They all relate to the same overall and fixed height of 5 feet 8 inches. Next, you would look at the 'family group of 4' photograph. Note that there are two versions of this same photograph, one is the correct one being a black and white with black handwritten names on the photograph. The other has some of the names in red and in different locations, that one has been photoshopped so I wouldn't use that version for that reason.

Back to the measurements from the Roy Webb photograph, the way to do that is to measure from the center of the chin through the midline of the nose and up to a point on the head where you believe the top of the head is. You could also use facial statistics that break the face into 3 place your measurement to a point precisely between the eyes and work your calculations around that line. Having a side profile picture is far better and for that reason that is the one I used as the yardstick. No pun intended. I measured both Roy's and Carl's head height on the photograph using the 'midline' method as in from the centre of the chin through the midline of the nose to the point where I believed the top of the head lay. Both had precisely the same measurement of 52 mm. I used the 1:8 ratio in the calculation and arrived at a height of 5 feet 8 inches. It would have been the same result if I had used either of the other two ratios as the head height is a proportion of the fixed and known full height. My measurement may be out by 2 to 3 mm given the estimate of where the top of the head lay which wouldn't have made an appreciable difference. We could always put a +/- 10 mm on the end result.

The next photograph to examine is that of the Somerton Man and attached is the profile image taken at the morgue after the autopsy. The man himself has been described in the autopsy documents as being very fit and in good shape, his height was put at 5 feet 11 inches. I will attach a copy of the inquest document for you to read through, it contains all of the statements of witnesses and of course, the medical information, this particular copy has 122 pages whilst others have only 102, the difference being that the larger one contains photographs of exhibits including the post autopsy photographs. There is a question regarding the given height of the man and I am looking at that currently, on the face of it, the only reference to his height of 5 feet 11 inches is in a press release found in the afternoon edition of The News, presumably that information came from Constable Moss or from Detective Strangway the officers who attended the scene and transported the body first to the RAH to get life extinct pronouncement and then to the morgue. Just how they measured the body is not known, but I will update you on that. Once again, we have a known fixed height to start with and we have a profile image, I measured that profile image as you can see. You can apply the various ratios to that measurement and you will get a consistent result which in this case is 1803 mm or 5 feet 11 inches. Again, you could say +/- 10mm etc.

Link to autopsy documents here:

I think I've said all of that right! Hope this helps.

 

[Gordon1552]

You are correct of course. In the table found on the link, it quotes 1:8 for the 'Golden Ratio' ex da Vinci expressed as .125 and the study found the ratio was .14. All sorts of people get to be recruits and I would agree that many of them would be fit and active people with some not as fit as others. But, the numbers involved as in 6300 + would even that out you would think.

Regarding the photograph and the taking of measurements from one, it is a common enough practice provided that you have a known and confirmed measurement as your guide. In the case of Roy Webb, we have his army photograph in full face and profile and it shows him as being 5 feet 8 inches. Attached is the NAA photo below. He seems to be standing up fairly straight maybe a little to one side. At this point, you can use whichever ratio you choose, .125,.14, or 1:7. They all relate to the same overall and fixed height of 5 feet 8 inches. Next, you would look at the 'family group of 4' photograph. Note that there are two versions of this same photograph, one is the correct one being a black and white with black handwritten names on the photograph. The other has some of the names in red and in different locations, that one has been photoshopped so I wouldn't use that version for that reason.

Back to the measurements from the Roy Webb photograph, the way to do that is to measure from the center of the chin through the midline of the nose and up to a point on the head where you believe the top of the head is. You could also use facial statistics that break the face into 3 place your measurement to a point precisely between the eyes and work your calculations around that line. Having a side profile picture is far better and for that reason that is the one I used as the yardstick. No pun intended. I measured both Roy's and Carl's head height on the photograph using the 'midline' method as in from the centre of the chin through the midline of the nose to the point where I believed the top of the head lay. Both had precisely the same measurement of 52 mm. I used the 1:8 ratio in the calculation and arrived at a height of 5 feet 8 inches. It would have been the same result if I had used either of the other two ratios as the head height is a proportion of the fixed and known full height. My measurement may be out by 2 to 3 mm given the estimate of where the top of the head lay which wouldn't have made an appreciable difference. We could always put a +/- 10 mm on the end result.

The next photograph to examine is that of the Somerton Man and attached is the profile image taken at the morgue after the autopsy. The man himself has been described in the autopsy documents as being very fit and in good shape, his height was put at 5 feet 11 inches. I will attach a copy of the inquest document for you to read through, it contains all of the statements of witnesses and of course, the medical information, this particular copy has 122 pages whilst others have only 102, the difference being that the larger one contains photographs of exhibits including the post autopsy photographs. There is a question regarding the given height of the man and I am looking at that currently, on the face of it, the only reference to his height of 5 feet 11 inches is in a press release found in the afternoon edition of The News, presumably that information came from Constable Moss or from Detective Strangway the officers who attended the scene and transported the body first to the RAH to get life extinct pronouncement and then to the morgue. Just how they measured the body is not known, but I will update you on that. Once again, we have a known fixed height to start with and we have a profile image, I measured that profile image as you can see. You can apply the various ratios to that measurement and you will get a consistent result which in this case is 1803 mm or 5 feet 11 inches. Again, you could say +/- 10mm etc.

Link to autopsy documents here:

I think I've said all of that right! Hope this helps.


View attachment 1928185



View attachment 1928183


View attachment 1928178
The challenge that is faced is the reported height of the Somerton Man. The height information, 5 feet 11 inches, first appeared in a News article in the afternoon of December 1st 1948. No name was given to the person who reported the information to the press save to infer that it was from the SA Police> There are two other references that are to be found amongst the official documents from the case. Detective Sergeant Leane in his statement to the inquest of the Somerton Man in June 1949, page 27 specified the height of the man as 5 feet 11 inches in his statement to the Coroner. He did not quote how and where that measurement was taken and by whom. In Clelands notes on the Somerton Man case, page 2, he typed the word HEIGHT and alongside it the words "Needs to be checked", there was no other reference in Clelands notes to the Somerton Man's height. It is not known whether we have the full set of Clelands notes. This could mean that the height of the Somerton Man was less than reported or it could men\an he was taller. The SA Police and the forensic team will no doubt be focusing on this and other issues.

 

[Kurve]

Phoebe Judge and a pod from 'Criminal'.

Episode 215: The Somerton Man (4.21.2023)

In 1948, a dead man was discovered on a beach in Australia. No one could identify him — until last year.

thisiscriminal.com

 

[Redacted]

5 ft 11 in.

DEAD MAN FOUND LYING ON SOMERTON BEACH - News (Adelaide, SA : 1923 - 1954) - 1 Dec 1948

The fully clothed body of a man was found on the beach at Somerton, opposite the Crippled Children's Home, at 6.30 a.m. ...

trove.nla.gov.au

 

[Redacted]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/50346625_The_Somerton_Man_An_Unsolved_History