Unsolved Taman Shud Case

BlueE

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Harvey also remembered him giving her a small blue (powder?) container before saying goodbye ... now that proves he wasn’t Australian, we only do that sort of thing for the little woman on her birthday or for mum on Mother’s Day.
Careful Pete :moustache:

Does suggest she had time over a few days to see him, talk to him and observe what he was doing!
 

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BlueE

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IMO it's clearly the same man, given the similarities I pointed out with the arrows (ie, the whole of his face), but let's agree to disagree, as usual. So your theory is they released, even though they didn't have to, a picture of a man that obviously no-one knew but who wasn't Somerton Man, even though witnesses saw Somerton Man and would likely dispute the picture that was him? Why would they? What end would it serve? Why not just release a picture of the 'real' Somerton Man?
I do think the actual hair samples are a deal breaker for the brown haired man in the photo.

What I believe is his identity was known to those higher up that the Adelaide police. That either his identity or what he was doing around Adelaide at the time was such a huge secret that is still being kept today.

I don't think it's a co-incidence that ASIO was formed a few months later in March 1949 and this wasn't isolated spying but an important culmination or escalation so the head of British Intelligence and CIA were summoned to Australia.

Initially ASIO was to protect from foreign spying, sabotage and espionage and the big ass secret is either his identity or whatever spying or sabotage he may have been involved in. This also suggests he was foreign and either Nazi German or Russian would have been still enemies of Australia at the time.

ASIO: The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation is Australia's national security agency responsible for the protection of the country and its citizens from espionage, sabotage, acts of foreign interference, politically motivated violence, attacks on the Australian defence system, and terrorism.
 

BlueE

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On the other hand...
Maybe Somerton Man was redressed and placed upon the beach.
Maybe the suitcase was also left to be found as a decoy. Maybe the clothes and the suitcase actually belonged to someone else. The Thomas Ambrose Keane of Queensland?
Did Prosper Thompson kill Keane and dispose of him too?
Maybe Somerton Man will remain forever some poor unknown cove dressed in another victim's clothes?
Maybe there are other victims. Was Thompson a serial killer?
Poison however is the method usually of the female serial killer.
BTW, no one has asked the obvious yet.
If Somerton Man ate a pastie 2 hours before he died. And he supposedly died at 2am. Where did he buy a pastie at midnight?
There's only 1 possible answer...
He was invited in and served a pastie in someone's home.
Yes, he was murdered.
And the bloke on the beach, the night before? Was probably Prosper, setting up the scene so people would think that the Somerton Man was there all night and died there, when in fact Somerton Man was waiting inside Jessica's house whilst Prosper "went to buy some fags" to replace the one's that he bummed off Somerton Man.

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No indication that Jessica and Prosper were living together at the time as Prosper was advertising giving another address. However Prosper seemed to come into money the following year I think.

1,200 pounds which was enough to buy a basic house at the time. He placed an advertisement in the classified to buy a house, saying he had 1,200 pounds and was asking if anyone had a house to sell.

Enough to keep him quiet although keeping Robyn safe would be a deterrent for not talking.

Not even close to the 50,000 pounds that Elliott Johnson was said to have been given in 1949!
 
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Mycroft

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In the meantime I can't quite wade through all of Petedavo's "Davidsonian Institute" details you've posted so he might be apply the information if applicable to to this post.

I think most agree that the identity of SM, how he died and what he was doing in Adelaide he was doing was known to a higher level than police. However I suspect that one police officer (Det Sgt Leane) and possibly the coroner Cleland knew at least part of the story and their actions may have contributed to the confusion about how no conclusion was made about SM's identity and who was responsible for his death.

I've said many times that the police picture they distributed and said was SM did not match his written physical description of his body or hair of the plaster cast made of him. I believe the following two identikits based on the plaster reconstruction of his face give a better indication of what SM looked like. The gingery blonde hair caught in the plaster also suggest a far lighter hair colour than the second identikit.

View attachment 738198View attachment 738199
View attachment 738203

https://tamamshud.blogspot.com/2014/06/somerton-man-photo-realistic-image.html

He's 5'11" and his shoulder are very broad, grey eyes, receding hairline with no part and has an athletic physique and prominent defined calf muscles.

I can't see much resemblance to the police photo and am curious if the photo was of a different man.

Three people (Mrs. Elizabeth Thompson, widow of Morgan, and Stanley Peter Salotti, driver, of Nile street. Port Adelaide and James Mack -see Tamam Shud wiki) recognised the photograph and then identified the body as missing woodcuttter Robert Walsh. However Walsh would have been 63 years old and police were not satisfied with the identification as SM was thought to be around 40 years of age.

"When Mrs. Thompson identified the body she broke down and wept." She had a strong story to proved she knew Mr Walsh well and was very upset when she identified him.

I'm curious if the there was a second body who was Mr Robert Walsh and his photo was distributed and said to be the Somerton man?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/43798696

SOMERTON BODY SAID TO BE THAT OF WOODCUTTER.

Although police are not yet satisfied with the identification, two persons last night claimed that the body of a man found at Somerton on December 1 was that of Robert Walsh, woodcutter, formerly of Morgan.

The identification was made by Mrs. Elizabeth Thompson, widow of Morgan, and Stanley Peter Salotti, driver, of Nile street. Port Adelaide. Detectives are not satisfied with the identification because of a discrepancy in the age of Walsh and that of the body.

Thompson gave Walsh's age as 63. while the police believe the dead man to have been about 40. Mrs. Thompson told police: last night that she did not believe the Somerton body to be that of Walsh until she saw a photograph in a newspaper last Saturday.

According to Mrs. Thompson, Walsh boarded with her periodically at Morgan up till a fortnight before Christmas, 1947.when he left for Brisbane. She had arranged to meet him in Brisbane that Christmas but did not keep the appointment.

Mrs. Thompson said that she heard no more of Walsh until she received a remembrance card and some money for 'Mother's Day. 1948. The card was sent from Crow's Nest NSW.

Mrs. Thompson first met Walsh eight or nine years ago when he began boarding with her. He was then employed as a woodcutter in the Morgan district, and continued in that work until he left for Brisbane.

As far as Mrs. Thompson knew, Walsh had no relatives in Australia. He was a Welshman and had a sister in Wales. Al-though he never divulged his age. Mrs. Thompson believed Walsh to be about 63.

To substantiate her claim, Mrs. Thompson took to police headquarters a photograph of herself and Walsh, taken several years ago.

When Mrs. Thompson saw the photograph of the dead man in the newspaper, she contacted Salotti. Who also knew Walsh. They both separately identified the body as that of Walsh.

Silotti said he first met Walsh three years ago when the man boarded with him for a week at his Port Adelaide home. He saw him last at the Victoria Park racecourse 18 months ago.

When Mrs. Thompson identified the body she broke down and wept. The body is consistent with that of a man who was once a woodcutter. The hands, however, do not suggest that he had done any woodcutting during the past 18 months.

The identification of the body has provided detectives with one of the most unusual cases of its type in the history of the SA police force.
BluE...Author Gerry Feltus discusses at some length Robert Walsh as a possible identity for SM in his book The Unknown Man (2010 Edition on pages 49, 50, 51 & 201). There were a few people that thought SM may be Walsh. He was also known as 'Nugget Walsh' and Bob Morgan and even Bob Welsh (said to be a Welshman). At most he'd have measured 5' 7 & 1/2" tall, others say shorter, which explains the nickname 'Nugget', thus Walsh was a different height and build to SM, though a better age fit for SM (between 42 & 48). There was also mention of a small faint tattoo mark on the right forearm, just below the elbow joint, a small map of Australia. Mrs. Thompson thought Walsh was older / 63, so a big age variation that don't fit with SM identity. Gerry Feltus concludes on pg. 201 that he's satisfied it's not Walsh, because he doesn't match the description and allegedly had a tattoo. It's thought he'd travelled interstate, but it is odd that he never came forward to say 'SM's not me...cos I'm alive'. He did seem to change jobs often, as well as his name, and he moved around. Also said to like to bet heavily on race horses, so perhaps he needed to change his name and keep moving. He might have even welcomed being mistaken for a dead man, if it cleared his debts. You could try finding when and where Bob Walsh died in obituary records, though you'd need to look for his other names as well (including 'Nugget' McCarthy). You could almost write another mystery about Robert Walsh aka Bob Morgan...Nugget Morgan or McCarthy, as he seems to be more fitting to the mysterious and the 'spy persona' than SM. It would help to get yourself a copy of 'The Unknown Man' to fill the gaps.
 

peteb

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Careful Pete :moustache:

Does suggest she had time over a few days to see him, talk to him and observe what he was doing!
That she did, she also said he looked very tired on the last day she saw or spoke to him, 'distraught' was the word she used.
 

peteb

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That she did, she also said he looked very tired on the last day she saw or spoke to him, 'distraught' was the word she used.
The conspirator in me says his state of mind may have been caused by reading a newspaper account of the death of the Somerton Man and a description of what was found in his pockets.
 

sprockets

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I do think the actual hair samples are a deal breaker for the brown haired man in the photo.

What I believe is his identity was known to those higher up that the Adelaide police. That either his identity or what he was doing around Adelaide at the time was such a huge secret that is still being kept today.

I don't think it's a co-incidence that ASIO was formed a few months later in March 1949 and this wasn't isolated spying but an important culmination or escalation so the head of British Intelligence and CIA were summoned to Australia.

Initially ASIO was to protect from foreign spying, sabotage and espionage and the big ass secret is either his identity or whatever spying or sabotage he may have been involved in. This also suggests he was foreign and either Nazi German or Russian would have been still enemies of Australia at the time.

ASIO: The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation is Australia's national security agency responsible for the protection of the country and its citizens from espionage, sabotage, acts of foreign interference, politically motivated violence, attacks on the Australian defence system, and terrorism.
What about the mystery man in the picture that wasn't Somerton Man? Did they keep him on hand for when a spy that looked like his identical twin came along and was murdered? No-one knew who he was? Where did he come from? If it's not SM it's just as big a mystery.

BTW. I also believe SM could have been a spy. It's not like there have never been any, even murdered ones, in Australia.
 

BlueE

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The conspirator in me says his state of mind may have been caused by reading a newspaper account of the death of the Somerton Man and a description of what was found in his pockets.
But didn't she say he checked out on the 30th November? Then was found the next morning? No chance to read the papers ;)

Appreciate your knowledge Pete. Did Ina report her sighting immediately or did she wait for years until she gave that news paper interview?
 

petedavo

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What about the mystery man in the picture that wasn't Somerton Man? Did they keep him on hand for when a spy that looked like his identical twin came along and was murdered? No-one knew who he was? Where did he come from? If it's not SM it's just as big a mystery.

BTW. I also believe SM could have been a spy. It's not like there have never been any, even murdered ones, in Australia.
Photography is a funny thing. Especially in the days before automatic exposures. The f stop, shutter speed, lighting, the type of film, and how it's developed all make huge differences to the final photograph. It could well produce vastly different images of the same subject. The black and white photos I suspect were over exposed or over developed. The colour photos give a vastly better rendition of what Somerton Man might of looked like.

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BlueE

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What about the mystery man in the picture that wasn't Somerton Man? Did they keep him on hand for when a spy that looked like his identical twin came along and was murdered? No-one knew who he was? Where did he come from? If it's not SM it's just as big a mystery.

BTW. I also believe SM could have been a spy. It's not like there have never been any, even murdered ones, in Australia.
I don't think they look anything alike or are physically compatible as the person in the photo doesn't have broad shoulders. But I believe that Mr Walsh had an accident just before SM was discovered and word came from higher authorities that SM's identity was not to be disclosed, so someone decided to photograph his face.

A photo was taken of Mr Walsh, the photographer was very vague in his Inquest statement that he was told to take a photo of a person and he was told this person was found on the beach at Somerton. Mr Walsh with his hair dyed ginger (although that's not very successful on brown haired people) and his facial features touched up was said to be SM.

I don't think you can fake the reaction the widow that he'd boarded with for years had when she saw his body or Jessica's reaction to the bust she saw, even though the photograph had been in circulation for months.
 

BlueE

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Photography is a funny thing. Especially in the days before automatic exposures. The f stop, shutter speed, lighting, the type of film, and how it's developed all make huge differences to the final photograph. It could well produce vastly different images of the same subject. The black and white photos I suspect were over exposed or over developed. The colour photos give a vastly better rendition of what Somerton Man might of looked like.

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The colour impressions are from artists drawings of what SM may look like using the bust made of him.
 

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peteb

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But didn't she say he checked out on the 30th November? Then was found the next morning? No chance to read the papers ;)
Harvey wasn’t at all sure of the dates, and one of the reasons Feltus dismissed her was because she waited years before giving the interview, however, he accepted an equally late statement of the man seen carrying a man along the beach ...

Appreciate your knowledge Pete. Did Ina report her sighting immediately or did she wait for years until she gave that news paper interview?
That she did, she also said he looked very tired on the last day she saw or spoke to him, 'distraught' was the word she used.
The conspirator in me says his state of mind may have been caused by a newspaper account of the death of the Somerton Man and a description of what was found in his pockets.
 

petedavo

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Record at NAA of a Thomas Ambrose Keane of 19 Abington St, South Brisbane opened in 1945 is not available due to National Security concerns



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A couple of pages were released of Thomas Keane's ASIO file. It shows that he was a member of the Eureka Youth League when the file was opened in 1945 by the Commonwealth Investigation Branch. It also shows that someone requested a report on his activities and whereabouts in 1950, however who and why are redacted out. It also shows that the file was closed in 1953, however it appears that the reason for the file being closed is redacted. There's only enough room in the blacked out area to write something like "Found Deceased" or such like.
What is available doesn't say how old he is, or what sort of position he held in the EYL.
The reasons that are stated for not releasing the rest of the file are much more interesting though.


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Unfortunately all the Queensland files on the Eureka youth League from 1942 up-to 1949 have been restricted due to:
33(1)(a) - would damage Australia's security, defence or international relations;
33(1)(d) - would be a breach of confidence;
33(1)(g) - would unreasonably disclose information about the personal affairs of a person;




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A search of Trove using "19 Abingdon st" limiting the search to Newspapers, and the state to Queensland produces interesting results.
There's a lot of stuff being sold off in the 40's (no names mentioned). Then an advert in 1950 which gives the name "Bryce" as the seller. Did the property change hands? Was it a rental? A new tenant in 1950, hence the difference in adverts? Where did Thomas Ambrose Keane go?

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PeteD, I remember somebody mentioning that restricted file some years ago, probably Byron Deveson, but didn't have any copies of the file.. this is worth a hot dig, davo, we need to know when he was born ... I'll see if I can beat you to it starting from scratch.
I've had no luck finding out anymore on the Thomas Ambrose Keane of 19 Abingdon St South Brisbane, who's ASIO file is mostly restricted. No date of birth. No death notices. No photograph. No mention in stories of the Eureka Youth League.
Nada Zip. It's like he's been wiped off the face of the earth, or ever existed.

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petedavo

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Thanks for your work, petedavo .... how close do you think Ambrose is to the age of the Somerton Man?
Very few clues to his age. The few pages released in his ASIO file just say EYL member. Doesn't say whether he was an organiser or music/dance coach, or just an ordinary member. The fact that it's still embargoed suggests the former rather than the later, and someone of some importance. The classified adverts in newspapers suggests someone at his address was reselling prams from the address, about the same time that Robin Thompson was born.
Since coming across his file, I've been going down a rabbit warren of archives.
I've had to work backwards to try and work out who this Thomas Ambrose Keane might actually be, if he is the deceased found at Somerton Beach.
So far I'm searching Soviet Agents that had disappeared, but had actually defected without the Soviets becoming aware. One of the intriguing possibilities that piqued my immediate interest was one I posted the MI5 file of Walter Krivitsky information on Aaron Ehrenlieb from the UK Archive yesterday. Walter was a Soviet defector who passed himself off under different identities and different nationalities. What piqued my interest was his travels to Argentina, and other countries where the Dutch Diplomat's daughter, Tania Teppema who became Richard Hemblys-Scales wife also frequented in travels with her father Peter Teppema.
Could Peter Teppema of befriended a Soviet Agent and convinced him to defect with a guarantee to continued protection?
It all made me wonder if this Thomas Ambrose Keane was a new identity of a Soviet agent that defected, and the fact that he defected rather than disappeared was being hidden from the Soviets.
Was he being hidden in Australia under an agreement between Teppema and Hemblys-Scales for the information on the networks that he created and a Verona code pad or two?

Did he almost bugger up the fact that MI5 had compromised Soviet networks and codes by going on a private errand to Adelaide and either getting himself killed, or was stopped from exposing the whole shooting match a few doors from where he was going by lethal force? If Keane was Ehrenlieb, he was 53 years old in 1948.
His UK file abruptly ends in 1949.

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peteb

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Very few clues to his age. The few pages released in his ASIO file just say EYL member. Doesn't say whether he was an organiser or music/dance coach, or just an ordinary member. The fact that it's still embargoed suggests the former rather than the later, and someone of some importance. The classified adverts in newspapers suggests someone at his address was reselling prams from the address, about the same time that Robin Thompson was born.
Since coming across his file, I've been going down a rabbit warren of archives.
I've had to work backwards to try and work out who this Thomas Ambrose Keane might actually be, if he is the deceased found at Somerton Beach.
So far I'm searching Soviet Agents that had disappeared, but had actually defected without the Soviets becoming aware. One of the intriguing possibilities that piqued my immediate interest was one I posted the MI5 file of Walter Krivitsky information on Aaron Ehrenlieb from the UK Archive yesterday. Walter was a Soviet defector who passed himself off under different identities and different nationalities. What piqued my interest was his travels to Argentina, and other countries where the Dutch Diplomat's daughter, Tania Teppema who became Richard Hemblys-Scales wife also frequented in travels with her father Peter Teppema.
Could Peter Teppema of befriended a Soviet Agent and convinced him to defect with a guarantee to continued protection?
It all made me wonder if this Thomas Ambrose Keane was a new identity of a Soviet agent that defected, and the fact that he defected rather than disappeared was being hidden from the Soviets.
Was he being hidden in Australia under an agreement between Teppema and Hemblys-Scales for the information on the networks that he created and a Verona code pad or two?

Did he almost bugger up the fact that MI5 had compromised Soviet networks and codes by going on a private errand to Adelaide and either getting himself killed, or was stopped from exposing the whole shooting match a few doors from where he was going by lethal force? If Keane was Ehrenlieb, he was 53 years old in 1948.
His UK file abruptly ends in 1949.

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The same Hemblys-Scales who accompanied Roger Hollis to Australia in 1948 and who assisted in setting up ASIO before relocating to the Middle East under the governorship of Kim Philby ...
 

petedavo

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The same Hemblys-Scales who accompanied Roger Hollis to Australia in 1948 and who assisted in setting up ASIO before relocating to the Middle East under the governorship of Kim Philby ...
Very same.
I think he died in Argentina.

"Any fool can commit a murder, but it takes an artist to commit a good natural death"

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peteb

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Very same.
I think he died in Argentina.

"Any fool can commit a murder, but it takes an artist to commit a good natural death"

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So you could safely assume that anything Hemblys-Scales learnt about hostile agents identified by Australian Intelligence services would have been told to the hostile agent’s masters, via Philby.
 

petedavo

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So you could safely assume that anything Hemblys-Scales learnt about hostile agents identified by Australian Intelligence services would have been told to the hostile agent’s masters, via Philby.
Yes.
Konstantin Volkov had the goods on Philby, Burgess & McLean and he was only asking for £27,500 and a promise of political asylum to give up the names.
It's just too bad that the Embassy in Turkey didn't know this when they asked for an MI5 to come and do the deal.

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petedavo

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Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales went to Christ’s College, Cambridge from which he graduated with honours in Classics and Philosophy. http://heatholdboys.org.uk/obits/Hemblys-Scales_R.html
One of the books Hemblys-Scales studied in his Classics course at Cambridge, was a translation of Iranian poetry by a former student of Trinity College, Cambridge, Edward FitzGerald, called » Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám
Hemblys-Scales would of known each edition of Fitzgerald's translations, like the back of his hand.


"MI5 and MI6 cover-up of Cambridge spy ring laid bare in archive papers" https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/23/mi5-mi6-coverup-cambridge-spy-ring-archive-papers
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petedavo

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