Unsolved Taman Shud Case

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Redacted

Team Captain
Sep 16, 2019
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Episode 14, of "it happens everywhere"
2 days ago.
2 Sheilas from Birmingham discuss the Somerton Man case, eventually.

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Redacted

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Sep 16, 2019
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Genealogical trees updated. All have grown much more.
A few additional families had been added.
Everything can be seen with a free account. I only have a free account. Living people will usually show as private

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Kurve

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What's going on with the DNA on this? Did we think a relative of the Somerton Man had been found?
 

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Redacted

Team Captain
Sep 16, 2019
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What's going on with the DNA on this? Did we think a relative of the Somerton Man had been found?
The corpse is still interred in his grave.
No.
It's up to the person/s who contracted a DNA matching service whether they release the result of a gedmatch of living persons to the public. They'll need to consult with the two families that the match says are related even though the common ancestor is deceased.
IMO the only value of knowing is that it extinguished any possibility of the theory that Somerton Man was the father of Robin Thomson as it's someone else. Releasing details in my opinion would just result in living descendants having to bear with unwarranted and possibly salacious media attention.
There is no possibility that Somerton Man DNA can be found via Robin's descendants so you'll have to either wait to the corpse to be exhumed or better technology to be employed with what samples we got, like the hair from the plaster cast etc.

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Gordon1552

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The corpse is still interred in his grave.
No.
It's up to the person/s who contracted a DNA matching service whether they release the result of a gedmatch of living persons to the public. They'll need to consult with the two families that the match says are related even though the common ancestor is deceased.
IMO the only value of knowing is that it extinguished any possibility of the theory that Somerton Man was the father of Robin Thomson as it's someone else. Releasing details in my opinion would just result in living descendants having to bear with unwarranted and possibly salacious media attention.
There is no possibility that Somerton Man DNA can be found via Robin's descendants so you'll have to either wait to the corpse to be exhumed or better technology to be employed with what samples we got, like the hair from the plaster cast etc.

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Nicely put..
 

Kurve

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The Somerton Man is to be exhumed for DNA testing.

 

Kurve

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Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

 

Redacted

Team Captain
Sep 16, 2019
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Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

The Somerton Man is to be exhumed for DNA testing.

We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.


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Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.


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We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.
 

Gordon1552

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We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.


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Tibor Kaldor was buried in a pauper shared grave. That particular plot along with others was churned up by an over-anxious developer I think in the 1970s but will check the dates. The bottom line is that the remains of all of those were churned into the soil.
Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.
 

Gordon1552

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Oct 7, 2019
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Tibor Kaldor was buried in a pauper shared grave. That particular plot along with others was churned up by an over-anxious developer I think in the 1970s but will check the dates. The bottom line is that the remains of all of those were churned into the soil.
We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.
I made the point in a post elsewhere that the first thing to be addressed is the issue of the diagram of the Somerton Mans teeth prepared by Dr Dwyer, the teeth of the man they exhume should be an exact match. If they are then it will clarify the claims by Professor Abbott that the man had hypodontia, or did he?

On the other hand, if there isn't a match, which is a possibility given the information gleaned from Paul Lawson's diaries and the now renowned phrase, 'the disposal of the original body', plus comments made by Paul to the effect that he did not make the bust of the face of the man but used the Police photographs to shape the face and other comments that described the inside of the man's skull having been cleaned out completely, no trace of any tissue. Most unusual. If we add to that the fact there was no continuity of identification between the Police and Paul Lawson, Paul was only told that 'this is the body of the man that we ant you to make a bust of', procedures would demand that what should have been said is 'This is the body of the man that was found on Somerton Beach on December 1st 1948 and we want you to make a bust of his head and face.' Sounds picky but those were the procedures.
 

Redacted

Team Captain
Sep 16, 2019
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Another thing that needs to be reviewed is the torn piece of paper and the book that it was torn from.
The SA Police found a phone number and it caused them to interview Jessica Harkness.
It appears that they assumed that the Somerton Man pocessed the book and wrote the phone number in it.
To me this assumption is unsafe.
There could be a far simpler alternative.
The telephone number might of been written by Jessica. The book might've been hers.
Somerton Man might just of picked up her book after figuring that he'd just been poisoned, and being familiar with the book itself, tor the piece to plant upon his person in case he was found dead knowing that it would lead back to the book, which would implicate his killers. If the book was found and police did their job.
Otherwise, if Police are to continue to assume that the book was his, then how did he get a new phone number? And why travel to Adelaide when he could've just rung her up instead, or ring her up before arriving so he could be picked up from the station with his bag? Why do door knocking on neighbour's if you had her phone number? and if you wanted to surprise her.
In my opinion No, the book wasn't his and he didn't write in it. He stole it from his killer to leave a trail back to who did him in.

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Redacted

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Another unsafe assumption is the circumstances in which how the book was found.
Taking Jessica's explanations and Chemist Freeman's explanations at face value might be all that SA Police could do at the time, but given the findings of the Coroner over cause of death and the lack of finding any identity documents, a wallet, even a missing means of lighting the cigarettes found upon the corpse, and no container for a poison, it would beggar belief that Jessica and the chemists statements didn't warrant further scrutiny, and a decision to get them back in for a more rigorous set of questions to elicit a more satisfactory explanation of these circumstances.

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Gordon1552

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Another thing that needs to be reviewed is the torn piece of paper and the book that it was torn from.
The SA Police found a phone number and it caused them to interview Jessica Harkness.
It appears that they assumed that the Somerton Man pocessed the book and wrote the phone number in it.
To me this assumption is unsafe.
There could be a far simpler alternative.
The telephone number might of been written by Jessica. The book might've been hers.
Somerton Man might just of picked up her book after figuring that he'd just been poisoned, and being familiar with the book itself, tor the piece to plant upon his person in case he was found dead knowing that it would lead back to the book, which would implicate his killers. If the book was found and police did their job.
Otherwise, if Police are to continue to assume that the book was his, then how did he get a new phone number? And why travel to Adelaide when he could've just rung her up instead, or ring her up before arriving so he could be picked up from the station with his bag? Why do door knocking on neighbour's if you had her phone number? and if you wanted to surprise her.
In my opinion No, the book wasn't his and he didn't write in it. He stole it from his killer to leave a trail back to who did him in.

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My thoughts were that she had written the number on the book shortly after she and Prosper moved in, she was simply recording the telephone number that had been allocated to them.
 

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