Unsolved Taman Shud Case

petedavo

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Here is a name that we'll get to eventually, Viktor Zaitsev. Go a find out all that you can about his activities in Australia, and we'll discuss it, and how Jestyn might fit in later
 

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BlueE

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There are good reasons for believing that a GRU (Soviet military intelligence) ring was developed from 1943, by Viktor Zaitsev, who was sent here after supporting the famous Sorge ring in Tokyo and was later posted to Washington, which suggests he had done well in Canberra. But whatever Zaitsev accomplished here, before there was any ASIO to even attempt to keep his activities in check, has never been brought to light. Unlike the KGB, the GRU has never opened its archives. Zaitsev left Canberra in 1947, the security leaks from Canberra became acute in 1948, and ASIO was created in 1949 to stem the tide.

Quite possible the security leaks talked about in 1948 could relate to the finding of SM on 1st December 1948 and the subsequent formation of ASIO a few months later.

The publishing of the Cook report that looked into the infiltration of ASIO by Soviet Intelligence was after he was found and possibly have no information about him. Maybe not?

More interesting to the case is how a card carrying communist, Elliott Johnson was able to succeed personally and professionally in this era where the cold war against the Soviet's was in full swing.

Who gave him 50,000 pounds in 1949 to start a law practice, buy a house and a flash car? Guessing not ASIO or the Soviets but could be connected to covering up SM case?
 

petedavo

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petedavo

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No thanks, please summarise what you think is relevant to 1st Decembeer 1948 and who the SM is?
To cut to the chase I'm leaning towards Somerton Man being an MI5 agent, and his death brought Hollis immediately to Australia to investigate whether his death was indicative of a compromise of operations, or was a private unrelated matter.
 

BlueE

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To cut to the chase I'm leaning towards Somerton Man being an MI5 agent, and his death brought Hollis immediately to Australia to investigate whether his death was indicative of a compromise of operations, or was a private unrelated matter.
I don't have time to read it all so thanks, not trying to be rude.

Major William Jestyn Moulds is thought to be the writer of the inscription on the Rubiayt that Jessica Harkness said she gave to Alf Boxall.

Alf Boxall and the Major were both in the same Regiment, The Royal Australian Engineers, during the war. It's suggested they were both involved in counter intelligence against the rise of communism in Australia and there is another suggestion of a splinter group involved in more extreme activities than propaganda.
 

BlueE

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There has been some incredible detailed research on SM, so I'm trying to take a wider view.

I believe almost certainly involved spying of some sort and there was a major cover. The formation of ASIO a few months later, visit of chief of MI5 indicates involving the highest levels of government. The Rubiayt a one time decipher pad used for messages.

The Cook report which is still suppressed may have details, but for something to be still hidden after 70 years, if it is some sort of espionage, means either no one has asked for it or there is some reason it should still be kept secret. I can think of a couple.

Every indication and a statement from Jessica's surviving daughter on 60 minutes is that Jessica had a son with the SM. DNA searches from the grand daughter (Rachel Egan) could be the best proof of who SM was.

The double breasted coat SM was wearing, thanks to very detailed evidence given by a tailor at the Inquest who recognised the stitching in the coat he said could only have been made by an American sewing machine and was American in design and gusset was definitely made in America or bought off someone who lived there. It was not imported to Australia.

Many of the strange contents of the suitcase could have been used to make ballet flats. The 1939 visit of Ballet Russe to Australia and NZ is a perfect cover for anyone involved in espionage, being made up of English, Russian, German and other nationalities. The athletic build, wedged toes and prominent calves of SM indicates he could have been part of a ballet group or at the very least he was well trained athletically. It's also possible Jessica had an earlier link to ballet, with photos and her encouraging her son to train to be a dancer.

The thought occurred that the suitcase with it's implements for making ballet flats and sports jacket of slightly different size than the coat SM was wearing could have been left from 1939 and was put there after the death to be found. That would mean another suitcase and the possibility SM stayed in a hotel for a few days. There was some evidence brought up by Pete Bowles and not mentioned in the Inquest that a female worker at he hotel had spoken to someone she thought was the SM and words tot he effect that he had an accent. "Didn't exactly mangle the English language" This would cut out English or American accents I believe.

The best indication of who he was are his physical characteristics, gingery blond hair, 5'11", light grey/blue eyes, broad shouldered and prominent calves his unusual teeth formation which most probably are genetic and his unusual ears. The widely promoted photo wasn't him IMO.

The genetic connection they've found from Rachel Egan so far that indicates relatives in America mostly from (Massachusetts? Connecticut?) and related to Thomas Jefferson and also a Scandinavian connection gives an interesting indication of who he could have been and I think can be narrowed down with a few suggestions.
 

petedavo

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There has been some incredible detailed research on SM, so I'm trying to take a wider view.

I believe almost certainly involved spying of some sort and there was a major cover. The formation of ASIO a few months later, visit of chief of MI5 indicates involving the highest levels of government. The Rubiayt a one time decipher pad used for messages.

The Cook report which is still suppressed may have details, but for something to be still hidden after 70 years, if it is some sort of espionage, means either no one has asked for it or there is some reason it should still be kept secret. I can think of a couple.

Every indication and a statement from Jessica's surviving daughter on 60 minutes is that Jessica had a son with the SM. DNA searches from the grand daughter (Rachel Egan) could be the best proof of who SM was.

The double breasted coat SM was wearing, thanks to very detailed evidence given by a tailor at the Inquest who recognised the stitching in the coat he said could only have been made by an American sewing machine and was American in design and gusset was definitely made in America or bought off someone who lived there. It was not imported to Australia.

Many of the strange contents of the suitcase could have been used to make ballet flats. The 1939 visit of Ballet Russe to Australia and NZ is a perfect cover for anyone involved in espionage, being made up of English, Russian, German and other nationalities. The athletic build, wedged toes and prominent calves of SM indicates he could have been part of a ballet group or at the very least he was well trained athletically. It's also possible Jessica had an earlier link to ballet, with photos and her encouraging her son to train to be a dancer.

The thought occurred that the suitcase with it's implements for making ballet flats and sports jacket of slightly different size than the coat SM was wearing could have been left from 1939 and was put there after the death to be found. That would mean another suitcase and the possibility SM stayed in a hotel for a few days. There was some evidence brought up by Pete Bowles and not mentioned in the Inquest that a female worker at he hotel had spoken to someone she thought was the SM and words tot he effect that he had an accent. "Didn't exactly mangle the English language" This would cut out English or American accents I believe.

The best indication of who he was are his physical characteristics, gingery blond hair, 5'11", light grey/blue eyes, broad shouldered and prominent calves his unusual teeth formation which most probably are genetic and his unusual ears. The widely promoted photo wasn't him IMO.

The genetic connection they've found from Rachel Egan so far that indicates relatives in America mostly from (Massachusetts? Connecticut?) and related to Thomas Jefferson and also a Scandinavian connection gives an interesting indication of who he could have been and I think can be narrowed down with a few suggestions.
Thanks. I never heard half a this before.
I googled it and came up stories quoting a bloke named Abbott

Like this one

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 
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peteb

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Bowes, BlueE, that’s the right moniker.

A question: does anybody posting here have doubts that the man seen alive in the evening was the same man found dead in the morning?
 

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peteb

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And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bulls**t, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!
 

petedavo

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And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bulls**t, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!
Insulin kit?
Any history of diabetes in Robin's descendants?
Another possibility is Radium. It was supposedly touted as an exliar of youth before the war, and gullible people took radium, even injecting the s**t, using suppositories made of it, and wax pellets of it inserted into their urethra to cure erectile dysfunction, until they dropped dead.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 

BlueE

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Bowes, BlueE, that’s the right moniker.

A question: does anybody posting here have doubts that the man seen alive in the evening was the same man found dead in the morning?
Sorry about getting your name wrong.

Different witnesses who saw the man in the same position the night before and when discovered dead the next morning, described him with different trousers on.

My first thought was that he was driven to Jessica's house and cleaned up after soiling or vomiting on himself from probable poison. Explains the lack of expected vomit with probable poisoning as cause of death. Carried back later that night or early morning.

Do you think there were possibly 2 men?

I definitely think the photo that was disturbed and said to be the SM was of someone different. Doesn't match the physical description, though this was fairly brief in the autopsy, it was expanded on by the police information sent to different countries with the finger prints and the Taxidermist descriptions.

Also the photographer was ambiguous about whether the photograph was the man found at Somerton beach, but it was a photo of someone he was told to take.
 
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BlueE

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And seeing I’m on ... Ina Harvey, the receptionist who described her visitor as not mangling the English language, was disbelieved because she said she sent someone to his room to look inside his bag ... for whatever reason ... and they said they saw a needle inside ... Harvey’s account was ridiculed by Feltus as pure bulls**t, I have the email.
However, the bag was described as being something leather and quite small, like a doctor’s case, or a flute case.
If it was a flute case, then perhaps the needle was a flute needle ... I’ve googled it. Bingo!
I find her description of this visitor, how he sounded and his belonging very interesting. Are you able to post more information about what she says?

"Not mangling the English accent"suggests to me that English wasn't his native language but he wasn't bad at speaking it... suggesting German or Russian to me.

What do you think she meant? Did he have another suitcase of clothes or just this needle?

Hard to know why Feltus ridiculed this. Getting too narrowly focused, so rejecting what doesn't fit into their theory?

Flute needle? For vitreo retinal surgery? Sorry you'll have to spell out what you're suggesting here, or is it more an insulin needle like PeteDavo is suggesting?

I do find Abbott's digs into the publishers of the three different Rubaiyats (was there more?), very interesting. SM, Alf Boxall and George Marshall.

From memory Marshall's the Methuan 7th edition of the Fitzgerald translation, when there were only 5 editions published. One was a Whitcome and Tomes publication, Christchurch NZ book company and strangely where 3 Israeli's lost their lives outside in the Christchurch earthquake. They were suspected of being spies and their companions left NZ in a big hurry in a matter of hours.
 

BlueE

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Thanks. I never heard half a this before.
I googled it and came up stories quoting a bloke named Abbott

Like this one

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
Firstly I'm wondering why the author Graeme Wood from New Haven Conneticut, is so interested in the SM case? Given there is a possible USA connection I'm curious.

He seems to get a few facts wrong, like Jessica never married until 1950 a couple of months after Prosper Thompson got divorced not 1947 and that photo that doesn't match the description of SM.

Other wise a summary of the case and some of the personal relationships and clashes that have taken place among interested parties.
 

peteb

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Flute needles are used to clean the grime from flutes ... it is entirely appropriate that one would be found in a flute case. A flute case looks remarkably like a doctor’s bag.
The gentleman had no other baggage, he also spent some time in the hotel lobby but was not seen to take a drink.
Some feel the unusual case may have been a passive recognition signal .. others think the Kensitas cigarettes in an Army Club pack may have been a similar signal.
 

peteb

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Sorry about getting your name wrong.

Different witnesses who saw the man in the same position the night before and when discovered dead the next morning, described him with different trousers on.

My first thought was that he was driven to Jessica's house and cleaned up after soiling or vomiting on himself from probable poison. Explains the lack of expected vomit with probable poisoning as cause of death. Carried back later that night or early morning.

Do you think there were possibly 2 men?

I definitely think the photo that was disturbed and said to be the SM was of someone different. Doesn't match the physical description, though this was fairly brief in the autopsy, it was expanded on by the police information sent to different countries with the finger prints and the Taxidermist descriptions.

Also the photographer was ambiguous about whether the photograph was the man found at Somerton beach, but it was a photo of someone he was told to take.
The man seen in the evening was wearing striped trousers, the man found dead in the morning was wearing faun- brown ... it seems that many, including the police, the coroner and just about everyone else with an interest in the case failed to read Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Two men.
Period.
 

petedavo

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Firstly I'm wondering why the author Graeme Wood from New Haven Conneticut, is so interested in the SM case? Given there is a possible USA connection I'm curious.

He seems to get a few facts wrong, like Jessica never married until 1950 a couple of months after Prosper Thompson got divorced not 1947 and that photo that doesn't match the description of SM.

Other wise a summary of the case and some of the personal relationships and clashes that have taken place among interested parties.
You might find this interesting



Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk
 

peteb

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One problem we have with Prof Abbott is that his research has often been proved faulty ... there is no doubt he is an earnest fellow, but there are others, unheralded, who know more about the case than he does.
 

BlueE

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One problem we have with Prof Abbott is that his research has often been proved faulty ... there is no doubt he is an earnest fellow, but there are others, unheralded, who know more about the case than he does.
Kinda got that feeling but I do think DNA of Rachel Egan can solve this. His relationship with her complicates this impartiality but I truly think she can solve this with advances in the science and without any need to dig up a grave (that may or may not hold the SM).

I think his research on the publishers of the three Rubaiyat's from Boxall, SM and George Marshall is sound, but happy to be corrected. Marshall's connection through his brother to the first Prime Minister of Singapore and British connection would be another fantastical story.
 

BlueE

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The man seen in the evening was wearing striped trousers, the man found dead in the morning was wearing faun- brown ... it seems that many, including the police, the coroner and just about everyone else with an interest in the case failed to read Gordon Strapp’s deposition.
Two men.
Period.
Or one man that was taken somewhere to get cleaned up and had his trousers changed??

I think there are two different men, one in the photo and the other from whom the cast was made from that has the connection with Jessica. I'm not sure the dark haired man was dead and always thought the story that his eyes were taken out the day after he was found with an autopsy is too strange. The cast that was made of him in June 1949 had eye colour described by the taxidermist.

Any more information on "didn't (quite) mangle the English language"?
 

peteb

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Or one man that was taken somewhere to get cleaned up and had his trousers changed??

I think there are two different men, one in the photo and the other from whom the cast was made from that has the connection with Jessica. I'm not sure the dark haired man was dead and always thought the story that his eyes were taken out the day after he was found with an autopsy is too strange. The cast that was made of him in June 1949 had eye colour described by the taxidermist.

Any more information on "didn't (quite) mangle the English language"?
Are you suggesting the man seen moving in the evening was removed for a change of clothing then brought back dead ?
 

BlueE

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Are you suggesting the man seen moving in the evening was removed for a change of clothing then brought back dead ?
I think that's the most likely scenario. There was a detailed examination of his organs and fluids that suggested SM had been poisoned. However the types of poison that was thought to be most likely to be used would have caused profuse vomiting. There was no sign of vomiting and he was clean and neatly dressed. Time of death was thought to be around 2 - 3 am.

The jockey that saw him that evening and found him early the next morning in exactly the same place in exactly the same position with his head propped up against the sea wall in suit jacket, shirt and tie with dress trousers and shiny shoes and socks. This witness didn't think he was moving at all. Gordon, the witness walking on the promenade who saw the lower half of his body, thought he may have reflexly moved an arm and described his trousers as a different colour that he was wearing the next morning.

I think it's more likely he was moved to clean him up of vomit to disguise he was poisoned so natural causes cold be considered the reason for his death. Or care for him if someone he knew thought he could be saved. He could easily have been carried to a car and taken to Jessica's house close by. Wasn't there another witness who saw a man carrying another man on his shoulders coming to the beach later that evening?

The other scenario that someone unrelated was well enough to get up and walk away, but later someone wearing a suit jacket, shirt and tie and dress trousers was put in exactly the same position in exactly the same part of the beach for no reason is less likely to me.
 

peteb

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I think that's the most likely scenario. There was a detailed examination of his organs and fluids that suggested SM had been poisoned. However the types of poison that was thought to be most likely to be used would have caused profuse vomiting. There was no sign of vomiting and he was clean and neatly dressed. Time of death was thought to be around 2 - 3 am.

The jockey that saw him that evening and found him early the next morning in exactly the same place in exactly the same position with his head propped up against the sea wall in suit jacket, shirt and tie with dress trousers and shiny shoes and socks. This witness didn't think he was moving at all. Gordon, the witness walking on the promenade who saw the lower half of his body, thought he may have reflexly moved an arm and described his trousers as a different colour that he was wearing the next morning.

I think it's more likely he was moved to clean him up of vomit to disguise he was poisoned so natural causes cold be considered the reason for his death. Or care for him if someone he knew thought he could be saved. He could easily have been carried to a car and taken to Jessica's house close by. Wasn't there another witness who saw a man carrying another man on his shoulders coming to the beach later that evening?

The other scenario that someone unrelated was well enough to get up and walk away, but later someone wearing a suit jacket, shirt and tie and dress trousers was put in exactly the same position in exactly the same part of the beach for no reason is less likely to me.
There is no account of a jockey seeing a man by the steps in the evening. Gordon Strapps, the witness, was sitting on a bench with his girlfriend when they observed him .... with respect, BlueE, you seem to have your facts wrong.
 
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