Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[peteb]

04 | The Somerton Man Mystery — a family connection could hold the answer - ABC listen

Derek Abbott has spent decades trying to identify the man found dead on Somerton Beach. If his theory is correct, he's married to the unknown man's great granddaughter. But to prove it, he needs the Somerton Man's DNA.

www.abc.net.au

Episode 4 has interesting interviews with Rachel Egan and others who give insights on "Granny Jo" and starts to discuss what the possible DNA of the unknown man can tell them.

Recommended listening.

About a couple of minutes into the first episode, the narrator said ‘we now know for sure the body seen the night before was the same as the one in the evening’ ... or words to that effect.
This disputes the findings of Coroner Cleland, who states in his winding up that it is ‘not known’ where the man died.
This misstatement of facts is typical of Prof Abbott, who was listed as being involved in the podcast. When it comes to accuracy, Abbott is and has always been lacking. Beginning with his early assertion, since corrected, that a T Keane, seaman on the SS Cycle was missing at the time.
His explanation for the appearance of a box of Bryant and May matches was that 'Moss must have missed them.' He also states that the phone number found on the back of the Rubaiyat belonged to a nurse living in Glenelg, where in fact she was just the one who opened the door to the police when they came looking for the subscriber, who has yet to be positively identified but was in all probability, Prosper Thomson.
And Abbott has yet to acknowledge the fact that the trousers worn by the man seen in the evening were different to those worn by the man found dead in the morning. He also disputes the accuracy of the statement given to the police, and sighted by Feltus, by the witness who saw a man carrying a man along the beach on the night of November 30.
He also promotes the theory that Harkness was nicknamed Jestyn, which, unfortunately, is now accepted as a fact despite having no proven basis as neither Boxall, Kate Thomson or Jessica herself alluded to it in their interviews.

 

[Mycroft]

About a couple of minutes into the first episode, the narrator said ‘we now know for sure the body seen the night before was the same as the one in the evening’ ... or words to that effect.
This disputes the findings of Coroner Cleland, who states in his winding up that it is ‘not known’ where the man died.
This misstatement of facts is typical of Prof Abbott, who was listed as being involved in the podcast. When it comes to accuracy, Abbott is and has always been lacking. Beginning with his early assertion, since corrected, that a T Keane, seaman on the SS Cycle was missing at the time.
His explanation for the appearance of a box of Bryant and May matches was that 'Moss must have missed them.' He also states that the phone number found on the back of the Rubaiyat belonged to a nurse living in Glenelg, where in fact she was just the one who opened the door to the police when they came looking for the subscriber, who has yet to be positively identified but was in all probability, Prosper Thomson.
And Abbott has yet to acknowledge the fact that the trousers worn by the man seen in the evening were different to those worn by the man found dead in the morning. He also disputes the accuracy of the statement given to the police, and sighted by Feltus, by the witness who saw a man carrying a man along the beach on the night of November 30.
He also promotes the theory that Harkness was nicknamed Jestyn, which, unfortunately, is now accepted as a fact despite having no proven basis as neither Boxall, Kate Thomson or Jessica herself alluded to it in their interviews.

Pete...Fiona took a different, non combative approach to unravelling the Somerton Man, and making it 'current'. This podcast is the result of hours of taping, much of which isn't included as there's a limit to time slots, as well as maintaining the interest of listeners. It's not intended to bog SM's story down with mountains of information accumulated over the past 70 plus years, and I think she's done a great job of bringing what's old and what new together under the same umbrella. She came down from Sydney to interview those she believes are significant in SM's case, and demonstrates our interests and reasons for wanting to identify the deceased man found on Somerton Beach in 1948.
You can continually rake over the fine details re-how and why SM came to be dead on the beach, and you can create dozens of theories to try and explain his life, but for those currently involved in SM's case, we're more interested in finding out his identity.

As I explained earlier in this Forum, Renee Blackie (doctor of forensic science) from Flinder's University Forensic DNA Laboratory, took new DNA samples from the Somerton Man's bust in around May last year. These samples were then unexpectedly taken by Forensic Science S.A. (sighting 'chain of evidence' rules) and no-one's heard any thing since. They've now had possession of SM's DNA samples for 17 months. Had they remained with Renee Blackie and Flinder's Lab, we'd have a result, possibly within weeks. If Fiona Ellis-Jones and A.B.C. have taken an interest, and if they can push those DNA results along, I think we should be grateful. For years you've had your own interest in SM's case, and you chose to cast him a role in your fiction novel... so I'm surprised you'd grumble about the accuracy of Fiona's podcast. In the end it's about serving the deceased, and I'd hope we all want what I'd presume he does...his true identity...his name.

 

[peteb]

Pete...Fiona took a different, non combative approach to unravelling the Somerton Man, and making it 'current'. This podcast is the result of hours of taping, much of which isn't included as there's a limit to time slots, as well as maintaining the interest of listeners. It's not intended to bog SM's story down with mountains of information accumulated over the past 70 plus years, and I think she's done a great job of bringing what's old and what new together under the same umbrella. She came down from Sydney to interview those she believes are significant in SM's case, and demonstrates our interests and reasons for wanting to identify the deceased man found on Somerton Beach in 1948.
You can continually rake over the fine details re-how and why SM came to be dead on the beach, and you can create dozens of theories to try and explain his life, but for those currently involved in SM's case, we're more interested in finding out his identity.

As I explained earlier in this Forum, Renee Blackie (doctor of forensic science) from Flinder's University Forensic DNA Laboratory, took new DNA samples from the Somerton Man's bust in around May last year. These samples were then unexpectedly taken by Forensic Science S.A. (sighting 'chain of evidence' rules) and no-one's heard any thing since. They've now had possession of SM's DNA samples for 17 months. Had they remained with Renee Blackie and Flinder's Lab, we'd have a result, possibly within weeks. If Fiona Ellis-Jones and A.B.C. have taken an interest, and if they can push those DNA results along, I think we should be grateful. For years you've had your own interest in SM's case, and you chose to cast him a role in your fiction novel... so I'm surprised you'd grumble about the accuracy of Fiona's podcast. In the end it's about serving the deceased, and I'd hope we all want what I'd presume he does...his true identity...his name.

Fair enough, Mycroft .. however I must disagree with you in that there are 'mountains of information' - information about the Somerton Man case is scant, and what little we know for certain should always be the bones of any attempt to engage listeners' interest, particularly those who are new to the case. Too many mistakes of fact, whether by carelessness or lack of research, are read, listened to, repeated and finally believed.
Can I put this to you.
Who was it who first identified Jessica Harkness as Jestyn?

 

[Redacted]

Researching deaths associated with the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am, overwhelmingly almost all are suicides.
Some might even be called euthanasia today.
Most were preplanned, and some were quite elaborate. Almost none were murders, nor accidents. There's a couple of exceptions, a club named the Rubyiat ha a number of murders. And a spate of suicides resulted in a colloquial phrase "The Richmond Suicide Club". The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am being mentioned in a newspaper article about the spate of young men dying from Richmond.
Dunno if this adds or distracts from anyone's investigations.

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

 

[peteb]

Researching deaths associated with the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am, overwhelmingly almost all are suicides.
Some might even be called euthanasia today.
Most were preplanned, and some were quite elaborate. Almost none were murders, nor accidents. There's a couple of exceptions, a club named the Rubyiat ha a number of murders. And a spate of suicides resulted in a colloquial phrase "The Richmond Suicide Club". The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am being mentioned in a newspaper article about the spate of young men dying from Richmond.
Dunno if this adds or distracts from anyone's investigations.

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It may well add to our understanding of the placement of the TS slip. What better way to suggest murder as suicide than by using a common (?) theme. If we are indeed dealing with intelligence agencies they may well have known it as well, and adopted it. Police caseloads can be onerous, and if they are given an obvious solution to one they'll take it.

 

[Mycroft]

Fair enough, Mycroft .. however I must disagree with you in that there are 'mountains of information' - information about the Somerton Man case is scant, and what little we know for certain should always be the bones of any attempt to engage listeners' interest, particularly those who are new to the case. Too many mistakes of fact, whether by carelessness or lack of research, are read, listened to, repeated and finally believed.
Can I put this to you.
Who was it who first identified Jessica Harkness as Jestyn?

OK then Pete...A mountain of words, based on scant information. Hopefully the only bloke making a name for himself at the end of this saga, is this unidentified chap found dead in 1948 on Somerton beach. I already know the case inside out, so there's no point in using me as a sounding board re-presumptions made about Jestyn, or matches or SM's trousers etc.. It's one thing to spin a good yarn, but for any past SM witness, and for others that are truly involved in this case, most will agree that we just want a hasty conclusion for SM's identity...Fiona's podcast is about what's happening now, and it's the science that will most likely give us answers.

 

[peteb]

OK then Pete...A mountain of words, based on scant information. Hopefully the only bloke making a name for himself at the end of this saga, is this unidentified chap found dead in 1948 on Somerton beach. I already know the case inside out, so there's no point in using me as a sounding board re-presumptions made about Jestyn, or matches or SM's trousers etc.. It's one thing to spin a good yarn, but for any past SM witness, and for others that are truly involved in this case, most will agree that we just want a hasty conclusion for SM's identity...Fiona's podcast is about what's happening now, and it's the science that will most likely give us answers.

Thanks,Mycroft, always good to chat with someone from the other side, without opponents it isn’t a game, is it ?

 

[BlueE]

Researching deaths associated with the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am, overwhelmingly almost all are suicides.
Some might even be called euthanasia today.
Most were preplanned, and some were quite elaborate. Almost none were murders, nor accidents. There's a couple of exceptions, a club named the Rubyiat ha a number of murders. And a spate of suicides resulted in a colloquial phrase "The Richmond Suicide Club". The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayy ́am being mentioned in a newspaper article about the spate of young men dying from Richmond.
Dunno if this adds or distracts from anyone's investigations.

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

Worth a new thread then isn't it PeteDavo?

But were a couple of those in the month before SM was discovered, spies? They also had Rubaiyats? Spies committing suicide?

Marshall's case was interesting in that it may not have been him, They had to identify from dental records, although the Rubaiyat on his chest was in tact and pristine. Said to be suicide as well and the woman who testified at the Inquest was suicides 13 days later drowning in her bath after cutting her wrists!

I'm curious how Singapore voted a Jewish member of the Workers Party First Minister of their country.

 

[BlueE]

About a couple of minutes into the first episode, the narrator said ‘we now know for sure the body seen the night before was the same as the one in the evening’ ... or words to that effect.
This disputes the findings of Coroner Cleland, who states in his winding up that it is ‘not known’ where the man died.
This misstatement of facts is typical of Prof Abbott, who was listed as being involved in the podcast. When it comes to accuracy, Abbott is and has always been lacking. Beginning with his early assertion, since corrected, that a T Keane, seaman on the SS Cycle was missing at the time.
His explanation for the appearance of a box of Bryant and May matches was that 'Moss must have missed them.' He also states that the phone number found on the back of the Rubaiyat belonged to a nurse living in Glenelg, where in fact she was just the one who opened the door to the police when they came looking for the subscriber, who has yet to be positively identified but was in all probability, Prosper Thomson.
And Abbott has yet to acknowledge the fact that the trousers worn by the man seen in the evening were different to those worn by the man found dead in the morning. He also disputes the accuracy of the statement given to the police, and sighted by Feltus, by the witness who saw a man carrying a man along the beach on the night of November 30.
He also promotes the theory that Harkness was nicknamed Jestyn, which, unfortunately, is now accepted as a fact despite having no proven basis as neither Boxall, Kate Thomson or Jessica herself alluded to it in their interviews.

I think you're doing the researchers a dis service as most of the things you mention here I don't think came up in the podcast at all. I think it's valuable for the over view it gives while not covering details minutely she gets many original interviews, even the jockey that was 16 when he and his friend found SM early that morning.

I agree with Cleland and his finding that it's not known where the man died, especially when it's almost certain digitalis was used. The fact that this causes copious vomiting suggests he was cleaned up somewhere, before dying around 2 am and being found int he morning of 1st Dec 1948.

I thought the investigation on the Rubyait by Det Brown described in his three page affidavit to the Inquest where he found it was published by Collins, when only the Whitcome and Tomes Christchurch version has been shown to be the book might have been worth mentioning but ... can't put everything in.

The clothes SM was wearing were shown in the 1978 Stuart Littlemore interview and there were brown trousers, white shirt, striped tie, Brown knitted vest and brown suit jacket. While the jacket and trousers were not part of a suit because the jacket was made and fitted in America and the trousers were bought in Australia, they were very close in colour. There were faun trousers in the suitcase that you can see when it was opened and they were taken out to show laundry numbers on them.



The interview with Alf Boxall by Stuart Littlemore of which some of the audio was played in the podcast, has Boxall saying Jestyn gave him his copy of the Rubaiyat. I transcribed this interview a little while ago as it's fascinating.

Boxall, gives the senario that he met Jestyn (he calls her that while implying it is the nurse from Adelaide Jo) in the Clifton Pk pub with a male and female friend, then met her another day by her self when she gave him a copy of the Rubaiyat.

Littlemore asks if Boxall was interviewed by Adelaide police at the time the un named nurse told them she gave him a copy of the Rubaiyat and he affirms they came and interviewed him in Sydney and he showed them his copy and they left. He still had his original copy.

So straight from the horses mouth (the wily fox Alf Boxall) it would seem that Jo Harkness is Jestyn.

However, when you watch the interview closely, even though Boxall says Jestyn gave him the copy of the Rubaiyat he only implies Jestyn is Jo Harkness. LIttlemore can't ask directly because Jo had her name suppressed. He gives the Clifton Park scenario but ??

So I believe Boxall says Jestyn gave him the book and wasn't lying as it's more likely Jestyn is Mjr William Jestyn Moulds.

 

[BlueE]

Pete...Fiona took a different, non combative approach to unravelling the Somerton Man, and making it 'current'. This podcast is the result of hours of taping, much of which isn't included as there's a limit to time slots, as well as maintaining the interest of listeners. It's not intended to bog SM's story down with mountains of information accumulated over the past 70 plus years, and I think she's done a great job of bringing what's old and what new together under the same umbrella. She came down from Sydney to interview those she believes are significant in SM's case, and demonstrates our interests and reasons for wanting to identify the deceased man found on Somerton Beach in 1948.
You can continually rake over the fine details re-how and why SM came to be dead on the beach, and you can create dozens of theories to try and explain his life, but for those currently involved in SM's case, we're more interested in finding out his identity.

As I explained earlier in this Forum, Renee Blackie (doctor of forensic science) from Flinder's University Forensic DNA Laboratory, took new DNA samples from the Somerton Man's bust in around May last year. These samples were then unexpectedly taken by Forensic Science S.A. (sighting 'chain of evidence' rules) and no-one's heard any thing since. They've now had possession of SM's DNA samples for 17 months. Had they remained with Renee Blackie and Flinder's Lab, we'd have a result, possibly within weeks. If Fiona Ellis-Jones and A.B.C. have taken an interest, and if they can push those DNA results along, I think we should be grateful. For years you've had your own interest in SM's case, and you chose to cast him a role in your fiction novel... so I'm surprised you'd grumble about the accuracy of Fiona's podcast. In the end it's about serving the deceased, and I'd hope we all want what I'd presume he does...his true identity...his name.

This is very interesting. New techniques to analyse DNA from SM's hair were used and the samples were taken away by Forensic Science SA in May last year!!!

I believe you could have had results withing weeks and then with the two examples (Golden State killer and Canadian murderer of the young couple) I've just put on cold cases thread he could have been identified within 2 months.

It's almost like they don't want to identify him. I wonder why?

 

[Redacted]

I'm going to go through anyone associated with Thomson or Harkness looking for photos to see if I can jag a person who might have similar deformities and be related to Somerton Man.
Has anyone come across a photograph of Arthur Jonathan Crocker? He was a business partner of Prosper Thomson's brother according to an entry in the Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales on page 181, Fri 25 Jan 1946 [Issue No.8]

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[peteb]

I'm going to go through anyone associated with Thomson or Harkness looking for photos to see if I can jag a person who might have similar deformities and be related to Somerton Man.
Has anyone come across a photograph of Arthur Jonathan Crocker? He was a business partner of Prosper Thomson's father according to an entry in the Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales on page 181, Fri 25 Jan 1946 [Issue No.8]

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Look for dystonia of the toes ... it’s a hereditary condition related to spondylitis.

 

[Redacted]

Look for dystonia of the toes ... it’s a hereditary condition related to spondylitis.

I'll keep it in mind, but imo too many alternative causes, besides not many people's photos show the lower half very well, if at all. I'm hoping if we cast a wide enough net that at least someone who might be related to SM, might crop up. Do you know if Somerton Man's deformities can skip generations or siblings?
I might start with Gaston Chalmers Thomson, since Prosper' s brother lived in Sydney when Jessica Harkness was training at that hospital, and conceiving a baby.

Part of RecordSearch unavailable

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[peteb]

I'll keep it in mind, but imo too many alternative causes, besides not many people's photos show the lower half very well, if at all. I'm hoping if we cast a wide enough net that at least someone who might be related to SM, might crop up. Do you know if Somerton Man's deformities can skip generations?
I might start with Gaston Chalmers Thomson, since Prosper' s father lived in Sydney when Jessica Harkness was training at that hospital, and conceiving a baby.

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

Then look for wry neck .. torticullis is related to both.

 

[Redacted]

Gaston Chalmers Thomson, born 1920, 6ft 3 3/4 inch, fair hair, blue eyes, scar on wrist. Names his brother, Prosper as Next of Kin on his service record.
Lives in Bondi upon discharge from the Navy in 1945. Gets a pay out of a small fortune £235,10,0 for those days.

Part of RecordSearch unavailable

He sells up his share of a spray painting business in 1946 and moves from Vaucluse to Gosford allegedly.

NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore sub - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 25 Jan 1946

nla.gov.au

Has a life insurance policy reissued in 1943 after losing it.

NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore sub - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 25 Jan 1946

nla.gov.au

A Gaston Charles (SIC?) Thomson, Railway Guard reported as injured, (but not dead), in Gosford 1953 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article167379340
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[Redacted]

A family of cobblers.

A Mr T. A. Harkness, of Sinalley and Harkness (shoe makers, Abbotsford Victoria) 1913

10 Sep 1913 - STATE OF THE BOOT INDUSTRY. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197485116


Mr. John Harkness. chairman of directors of Harkness Shoes Pty. Ltd., Abbotsford, died suddenly yesterday afternoon ' at his home, 27 Dorrlngton-avenue, East Malvern. He Is survived by his widow and two sons.
The funeral will take place at Boroondara Cemetery, Kew, tomorrow afternoon. The arrangements will be conducted by le Pine and Son.
11 Aug 1939 - Mr. John Harkness - The Age (Melbourne, Vic.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204924451

Two sons.

One goes on to become the president of the Federal executive council of Australian Footwear Manufacturers

14 Jul 1948 - Shoes, Hats May Cost More Soon - The Age (Melbourne, Vic.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206905078
23 Mar 1954 - Shoes Import Worry - The Mercury (Hobart, Tas.) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27210411

What happened to the other son?

Is Jessica related to this family?

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[Redacted]

Interested in who wrote these http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article240008576

GWENETH DOROTHY GRAHAM - The BODY in the BATH I Visit Darlinghurst - Smith's Weekly (Sydney, NSW : 1919 - 1950) - 27 Mar 1948

To what degree did Joseph Marshall, by his death, contribute in turn to the death of Gweneth Dorothy Graham? It was on May 19, 1945, that Joseph Haim Saul ...

nla.gov.au

The man in the mask, Smith's Weekly.
Who was the writer of this column?
Appears that he wrote 1,829 articles for Smith's Weekly over many decades. What was his real name, and what was he intimating in t these two articles? Why was he implying murder, when the coroner found suicide in both instances?

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[peteb]

Mycroft, I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting your comment on another site that concerns itself with the Tamam Shud mystery, and given the the SA Government has appropriated the hair sample Prof Abbott so assiduously sought, do you have any theory as to why they would do such a thing?

Would you think it reasonable to connect this latest stone-walling by the SA Govt with their successful attempts over the years to deny exhumation?

Instances, in their aggregate, that show every sign of a succession of SA governments intent on keeping something very secret.

 

[Mycroft]

Mycroft, I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting your comment on another site that concerns itself with the Tamam Shud mystery, and given the the SA Government has appropriated the hair sample Prof Abbott so assiduously sought, do you have any theory as to why they would do such a thing?

Would you think it reasonable to connect this latest stone-walling by the SA Govt with their successful attempts over the years to deny exhumation?

Instances, in their aggregate, that show every sign of a succession of SA governments intent on keeping something very secret.

Renee Blackie (doctor of forensic science) from Flinder's University Forensic DNA Laboratory took the latest DNA samples from the SM bust in around May last year, after first seeking permission from Adelaide Major Crime. She'd hoped to have some results within a few weeks, however Major Crime unexpectedly sighted 'chain of evidence' rules, and the samples were taken to Forensic Science S.A. instead (a Govt. run lab.). And that's where the samples stayed... and we've heard no results 17 months on. From memory Prof. Abbot took SM hair samples a few years ago, so that's old news. This latest sample were to be tested using new DNA technology developed by Flinder's University. These aren't Abbot's samples.

 

[peteb]

Renee Blackie (doctor of forensic science) from Flinder's University Forensic DNA Laboratory took the latest DNA samples from the SM bust in around May last year, after first seeking permission from Adelaide Major Crime. She'd hoped to have some results within a few weeks, however Major Crime unexpectedly sighted 'chain of evidence' rules, and the samples were taken to Forensic Science S.A. instead (a Govt. run lab.). And that's where the samples stayed... and we've heard no results 17 months on. From memory Prof. Abbot took SM hair samples a few years ago, so that's old news. This latest sample were to be tested using new DNA technology developed by Flinder's University. These aren't Abbot's samples.

Thanks for that. When you say the latest samples were to be tested, and that they aren't Abbot's samples, do you know who the donor was?

 

[BlueE]

Thanks for that. When you say the latest samples were (sic) to be tested, and that they aren't Abbot's (sic) samples, do you know who the donor was?

If I can jump in, I posted an article some days ago of Renee Blackie explaining how they got permission to use the actual SM hair that was still in the plaster cast. She explained the technique and the new science they would be using to extract DNA from the sample.

I didn't realise until Mycroft posted that the Major Crime Squad of the Adelaide police had taken the samples 17 months ago.

I think you'd agree with the cases that have come up in the last year, especially in Canada and the US that identities are being solved with genealogical specialists within 2 months of submitting DNA results.

I'm surprised firstly that Major Crime seized the samples and secondly they don't seem to have done anything with them or taken any steps to identify the unknown man when there are at least 16 cold cases that have resulted in arrests of suspects using the same techniques in the last year.

 

[BlueE]

Latest Podcast. Edit This sounds very like the last podcast even though its got 5th October on it. Does anyone else know where the latest episode is?

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[Mycroft]

Thanks for that. When you say the latest samples were (sic) to be tested, and that they aren't Abbot's (sic) samples, do you know who the donor was?

Pete... Give it a rest! You know very well I'm referring to SM's DNA samples. I don't want to be part of any 'game' you're playing (re-your previous sarcasm). Nor did I give you permission to lift my words from this forum, to take over to your own SM blog site. Obviously I've little choice but to cease taking part in discussions here, if you intend to keep it up.

 

[peteb]

Pete... Give it a rest! You know very well I'm referring to SM's DNA samples. I don't want to be part of any 'game' you're playing (re-your previous sarcasm). Nor did I give you permission to lift my words from this forum, to take over to your own SM blog site. Obviously I've little choice but to cease taking part in discussions here, if you intend to keep it up.

Well, I’m sorry about that, Mycroft, you have your own interest to be careful of. However, I have couched my requests as courteously as possible, and challenge anyone to find the faults that have left you sulking.
And of course I will delete your comments from my site, but you will have to identify yourself before insisting I do so.

It has just occurred to me that you may have misunderstood my question re: donor. I meant who was it who collected the sample, if not Abbott?

 

[GreyCrow]

Latest Podcast. Edit This sounds very like the last podcast even though its got 5th October on it. Does anyone else know where the latest episode is?

Stream Your Favourite Local & National Radio Stations - ABC listen

Stream your favourite local & national radio stations on ABC – instant access to news, music, and more is just a click away!

radio.abc.net.au

I think I listened to this today

One question arose : Have they had any success from the DNA Geanological companies tested? ie any hits that seem odd