Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Redacted]

I can't follow how you have brought in the initials ROK as relating to the Somerton man?

Are you saying a spy called Aleksandra Vasilevna is ROK? How does ROK even come up in the SM case?

Also are you saying that this man's wife Anna, was in the Royal North Shore Hospital in 1946 when Jo Harkness was there? Then Anna got sent to Russia in 1948?

Her husband Aleksandra might have been the SM and had an affair with Jo Harkness? Did he go back to Russia or is there a record of him dying and what did he look like?

It was very unusual in the 1940, 50 or 60's for any unmarried woman to keep a baby. Adoption or Jo working as a nurse would have doctor contacts for D&C.

Even if a couple stayed together but weren't married when baby was born it's most likely the baby was adopted out. I know of two cases where this happened and the parents stayed together got married and had a family together after adopting their first baby out because they were not married.

In 1946 to have a baby as a single Mother would have been almost impossible. She left Sydney where she was working, didn't go to live with her parents or where they'd lived in Mentone but went to Adelaide. She had Prosper Thompson who also hadn't lived in Adelaide and was married to give her his name knowing the baby wasn't his.

Was she actually married to somebody else at this time - possibly the father? Or who or what was in Adelaide taking responsibility financial responsibility for her and Prosper having to start a business up from scratch?

I note that Prosper put an add in the paper offering 1,500 pounds cash to buy a house only a few days (apparently) before SM was discovered. It's possible the money came from SM who Ina Harvey said had booked a room at the Hotel she was working at during that time/

I haven't said anything other than that two Wives of Soviet representatives in Australia were in Hospital.
It's possible that one or both might of crossed paths with Jessica Harkness.
You can speculate about any subsequent relationship, recruitment or offer as a "fellow traveller" to help the Soviet agents, however there is no direct evidence of either, as yet. Conversely there's no evidence that she might of been recruited by Australian or Allied intelligence services to honey trap the Soviet agents either, although the possibility is enhanced by knowledge of her forming some sort of dalliance with Alf Boxall.
Maybe Alf was her handler? The opportunity to penetrate the Soviet spy ring must of been very tempting when such an opportunity arises.

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[Redacted]

In the 1940's Apparently, Intelligence agencies weren't very good at keeping records.
An example from MI5》

The History Press | Vera Eriksen: The Second World War’s most enigmatic spy

Of all the female spies during the Second World War, Vera Eriksen is perhaps the most mysterious. But who was she?

www.thehistorypress.co.uk

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[Redacted]

In the 1940's Apparently, Intelligence agencies weren't very good at keeping records.
An example from MI5》

The History Press | Vera Eriksen: The Second World War’s most enigmatic spy

Of all the female spies during the Second World War, Vera Eriksen is perhaps the most mysterious. But who was she?

www.thehistorypress.co.uk

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Too old to be Somerton Man?
HILMAR G.J. DIERKS
Disappeared. Supposedly died in 1940.
Interesting ballet connections though.

View attachment Dierks.pdf

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[BlueE]

Too old to be Somerton Man?
HILMAR G.J. DIERKS
Disappeared. Supposedly died in 1940.
Interesting ballet connections though.

View attachment 767612

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Yes I think so. Also he died in 1940. If he didn't die in 1940 he would have been almost 60. Too old. But good information for the Spies thread?

 

[Redacted]

Personally I don't think he was American because of the Ina Harvey Interview. I think he spoke English as a second language, probably German, but had strong connections with relatives in America.

I've taken a practical view looking at the physical evidence and original documents or witnesses to try to gather who he is or what he looked like.

Trying to figure out what SM was doing in Adelaide and what "side" he may have been on is definitely more difficult as there is flip flopping, then secrets that will never be revealed from ASIO that may be connected.

So, I've taken an overview with some general questions initially. I think it's probable that SM is the father of her son Robin and she knew who he was. IMO the identity of SM is known to those higher than the police in SA, or ASIO. I think Det Sgt Leane was instructed in some ways to make sure the identity if the SM was not discovered. Also I think Coroner Cleland, with his Communist leanings was also encouraged to make suer the true identity was not disicovered.

Since you've looked in some detail at Operation Verona and presumable understand how Communism was the enemy of he Western world (or at least USA, Australia and GB) in 1948, can you explain how a card carrying, out and proud communist under surveillance by ASIO from at least 1942 and who was swiftly dismissed from serving in in Papua New Guinea on January 3, 1945 (brutal treatment of prisoners?) was able to flourish and succeed professionally and personally in Adelaide rising to the highest Law positions in the State as Supreme Court Judge?

1. Was Jo Harkness a spy if so who for? Many CIA spies also spoke Russian.

2. Why did she as a single pregnant woman go to live in Adelaide where she had no family support and where Prosper Thomson who she eventually married, had never lived or had family?

3. Why did she choose to keep the baby when unmarried woman almost always gave up their children for adoption at the time even if they were in committed relationships and married the father of the baby after it was born?

4. Was she part of a Communist or other secret group that was centred in Adelaide which looked after her financially?

5. Was Elliott Johnston really just not a Communist, but a spy for ASIO?

(I've flipped and flopped on this and with all the ASIO records, trips he made to China, Korea, Russia and India I think he truly was a Communist)

6. Did Elliott Johnston hold a secret that could compromise Australia and USA that gave him permanent protection and a "free ride" professionally and personally in whatever he was doing?

7. If so, was this secret the identity of the Somerton Man or is the secret what SM was doing in Adelaide?

8. Was this secret big enough to murder a 2 year old boy to stop his father testifying at the Inquest about the identity of the SM?

9. How did Prosper Thomson get 1500 pounds cash that he advertised for a house around the time or shortly after SM was discovered?

10. Did Elliott Johnson receive 50,000 pounds in 1949 that was said to be a loan from the Communist Party, but he was never required to pay it back?

This is a claim made by someone that knew him in "Paedophiles down under - Adelaide". He bought a big house, latest model car and put money into his business it was claimed.

He then didn't work until 1957 (from his oral interview) because he firstly travelled around the world for about 18 months by himself as his wife either recently had given birth or adopted a baby boy in 1949.

When he returned according to his oral interview he became a organisor of communist party meetings and "peace" meeting which was another excuse to visit Communist counties.

If he did receive this money worth 6 - 8 mill today from the Communists, which totally goes against all their philosopies and I don't think they had large amount of money to give to random men in Adelaide, I can't see how it avoided being tried be being a spy.

However the CIA had plenty of money and gold so did he receive this large amount of money from them? And was this a hush payment to not publicise what he knew?

The Somerton mystery is riddled with unexplained coincidences. None are adequately explained in the archives. The more that I delve into the archives of various intelligence agencies, German, British, Dutch, Belgian, Soviet, Canadian, Argentinean, Australian and US that I go, the more coincidences that I find, but no hard answers.
Jessica asserted that someone may of asked about her at a neighbour's property a month before. If it was SM, then the visit to Adelaide by Robert Victor Hemblys Scales at the end of October 1948 is no longer coincidental IMO. The fact that Tania Teppema didn't have her engagement announced until December, might've been fortunate inasmuch that no one in Adelaide in October 1948 would've twigged that MI5 was visiting when they read in the social column of the Adelaide Press that Tania Teppema was visiting her Aunty's.
IMO, if there's anything worth finding it'll be in the boxes that she deposited with the Australian Archives after her divorce from Robert.

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[Redacted]

There are many connections to communism and secret societies including Freemasons, so not unusual they use the same "fellow travellers" language.

So how did Elliott Johnston remain a card carrying communist organisor from around 1941, and on the surface being financially supported by the Communist Party, not be arrested or have his business destroyed in the post war anti communist climate in Australia?

Johnston was being spied on at Communist meetings he regularly spoke at and other activities he was involved in. Why are records permanently closed after the meeting in October/Nov 1948 for around 2 years?

Why are there 330 out of 400 pages of records ASIO keep on Elliott Johnston permanently closed?

Was Woomera Rocket range also know as Area 53 and what was top secret there in 1948?

What was the date Prosper Thomson put the add in newspaper wanting a house for 1500 pounds cash?

Fair question considering that Milner was in the much the same boat as Johnston , and chose to do a runner instead.

I Spry with my little eye https://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-10-28/i-spry-with-my-little-eye/2314984



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[BlueE]

The Somerton mystery is riddled with unexplained coincidences. None are adequately explained in the archives. The more that I delve into the archives of various intelligence agencies, German, British, Dutch, Belgian, Soviet, Canadian, Argentinean, Australian and US that I go, the more coincidences that I find, but no hard answers.
Jessica asserted that someone may of asked about her at a neighbour's property a month before. If it was SM, then the visit to Adelaide by Robert Victor Hemblys Scales at the end of October 1948 is no longer coincidental IMO. The fact that Tania Teppema didn't have her engagement announced until December, might've been fortunate inasmuch that no one in Adelaide in October 1948 would've twigged that MI5 was visiting when they read in the social column of the Adelaide Press that Tania Teppema was visiting her Aunty's.
IMO, if there's anything worth finding it'll be in the boxes that she deposited with the Australian Archives after her divorce from Robert.

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I'm pretty sure it was a neighbour that reported a strange man was knocking on Jessica Harkness's door on the morning of 30th November 1948, not a month before.

Here's a co-incidence though.

The "Truth" news paper photo held up by USA Forensic expert Colleen Fitzpatrick (reporting on the 1959 story by NZ convict that he knew the identity of the SM) looks nothing like the bust of SM or initial photograph However, it has this strange resemblance to Reinhard Gehlan, Nazi Intelligence recruited by CIA and Head German Intelligence Service.

 

[BlueE]

Fair question considering that Milner was it the much the same boat as Johnston , and chose to do a runner instead.

I Spry with my little eye https://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-10-28/i-spry-with-my-little-eye/2314984

Well think about it for a while.

 

[Gordon1552]

There are many connections to communism and secret societies including Freemasons, so not unusual they use the same "fellow travellers" language.

So how did Elliott Johnston remain a card carrying communist organisor from around 1941, and on the surface being financially supported by the Communist Party, not be arrested or have his business destroyed in the post war anti communist climate in Australia?

Johnston was being spied on at Communist meetings he regularly spoke at and other activities he was involved in. Why are records permanently closed after the meeting in October/Nov 1948 for around 2 years?

Why are there 330 out of 400 pages of records ASIO keep on Elliott Johnston permanently closed?

Was Woomera Rocket range also know as Area 53 and what was top secret there in 1948?

What was the date Prosper Thomson put the add in newspaper wanting a house for 1500 pounds cash?

Would be worth posting the copy of the ad perhaps?

 

[BlueE]

Would be worth posting the copy of the ad perhaps?

https://somerandomstuff1.wordpress.com/2018/11/09/the-ultimate-guide-to-the-somerton-man-mystery/

Can't confirm the date although this blog says 27th November 1948.

Also from the same blogs on 18th Dec 1948;


and 18th June 1949

 

[Gordon1552]

https://somerandomstuff1.wordpress.com/2018/11/09/the-ultimate-guide-to-the-somerton-man-mystery/
View attachment 768222
Can't confirm the date although this blog says 27th November 1948.

Also from the same blogs on 18th Dec 1948;
View attachment 768224

and 18th June 1949
View attachment 768226

 

[Gordon1552]

https://somerandomstuff1.wordpress.com/2018/11/09/the-ultimate-guide-to-the-somerton-man-mystery/
View attachment 768222
Can't confirm the date although this blog says 27th November 1948.

Also from the same blogs on 18th Dec 1948;
View attachment 768224

and 18th June 1949
View attachment 768226

Thanks for that, the Bungalow ad is 4 days before SM was found on the beach and the Tudor Watch ad is 4 days after Tibor Kaldor was found in a Hindley street hotel. Both poisoned and from Paul Lawson's recent interview, both from barbiturate poisoning. The hotel was about 100 metres from Jess/Prosper business address in Hindley street. SM was found about 200 metres from their home address.

The Danetta code was first found in Tibor's last letter and was uncovered by using an Acrostic decoder. I examined the technique used for Tibor's example and used that to find DANETTA in the Tudor watch ad and I see it is also in the Bungalow advert but not in the one for the rifle. It is found in Verse 70 and in Methuen's 7th edition Verse 23. I will post that on the other forum later today if I get chance!

 

[Redacted]

Well think about it for a while.

Johnston might've been an informant.
It would explain his protected status, the withheld pages, and lack of prosecution.
But surely someone inside the KLOD network would've had suspicions, maybe even of figured it out, so how would ASIO be able to keep this under wraps if someone found out?
Interesting that two of the KLOD spies have never been identified....

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[BlueE]

Johnston might've been an informant.
It would explain his protected status, the withheld pages, and lack of prosecution.
But surely someone inside the KLOD network would've had suspicions, maybe even of figured it out, so how would ASIO be able to keep this under wraps if someone found out?
Interesting that two of the KLOD spies have never been identified....

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He could have flipped and been an informant and became protected which I've thought about a lot. But I agree I can't see how KLOD didn't figure it out. He continued to be spied on by ASIO until around 1960. He also seemed to stay loyal and proud of his Communist convictions when it would be easier, especially in later years when he was nominated for Supreme Court Judge.

The only other option I can think of is that through the Communist Party he was involved in the death of SM and then through either finding out his true identity or the purpose of SM's visit he used this as a tool for protection from ASIO, and even higher authorities.

I think finding the true identity (or purpose?) is a huge secret that someone paid 50,000 pounds to keep quiet and gave Johnston immunity for many other activities he was involved in.

 

[BlueE]

Thanks for that, the Bungalow ad is 4 days before SM was found on the beach and the Tudor Watch ad is 4 days after Tibor Kaldor was found in a Hindley street hotel. Both poisoned and from Paul Lawson's recent interview, both from barbiturate poisoning. The hotel was about 100 metres from Jess/Prosper business address in Hindley street. SM was found about 200 metres from their home address.

The Danetta code was first found in Tibor's last letter and was uncovered by using an Acrostic decoder. I examined the technique used for Tibor's example and used that to find DANETTA in the Tudor watch ad and I see it is also in the Bungalow advert but not in the one for the rifle. It is found in Verse 70 and in Methuen's 7th edition Verse 23. I will post that on the other forum later today if I get chance!

Can you confirm the date he was offering 1500 pounds cash for a house was the 27th November. He would have been at the hotel according to Ina Harvey then.

Having 1500 pounds cash (or enough to buy a house) wouldn't have been that common so where do you think he got the money from?

I'm not sure about him arriving that day on teh train is correct and P.C. Moss says in the inquest that he found a bus ticket and a train tramways ticket on him. He says what he was shown in the Inquest was similar but not the actual tickets he found on his person when he was discovered.

Lawson was a taxidermist, not a pathologist or doctor so not sure why you're quoting him for the cause of death. There were pages of evidence from two different doctors that confirm digitalis (although the name is not mentioned in the Inquest) as the cause of death, but signs of vomiting not present. Digitalis also causes soiling of trousers as a side effect.

Barbiturates are considered in depth in the Inquest and ruled out as far as I can tell.

 

[Redacted]

Can you confirm the date he was offering 1500 pounds cash for a house was the 27th November. He would have been at the hotel according to Ina Harvey then.

Having 1500 pounds cash (or enough to buy a house) wouldn't have been that common so where do you think he got the money from?

I'm not sure about him arriving that day on teh train is correct and P.C. Moss says in the inquest that he found a bus ticket and a train tramways ticket on him. He says what he was shown in the Inquest was similar but not the actual tickets he found on his person when he was discovered.

Lawson was a taxidermist, not a pathologist or doctor so not sure why you're quoting him for the cause of death. There were pages of evidence from two different doctors that confirm digitalis (although the name is not mentioned in the Inquest) as the cause of death, but signs of vomiting not present. Digitalis also causes soiling of trousers as a side effect.

Barbiturates are considered in depth in the Inquest and ruled out as far as I can tell.

Vomiting might not of occurred if he was using it to treat a suspected heart condition. Toxicity could occur if misdiagnosed, and h e was given it for a heart condition when he had a liver or kidney condition instead.

Digitalis toxicity: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Digitalis is a medicine that is used to treat certain heart conditions. Digitalis toxicity can be a side effect of digitalis therapy. It may occur when you take too much of the drug at one time. It can

medlineplus.gov

A side effect of the therapy giving toxic levels is difficulty breathing whilst lying down.

Breathing difficulty - lying down: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Breathing difficulty while lying down is an abnormal condition in which a person has a problem breathing normally when lying flat. The head must be raised by sitting or standing to be able to breathe deeply

medlineplus.gov

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[Gordon1552]

Can you confirm the date he was offering 1500 pounds cash for a house was the 27th November. He would have been at the hotel according to Ina Harvey then.

Having 1500 pounds cash (or enough to buy a house) wouldn't have been that common so where do you think he got the money from?

I'm not sure about him arriving that day on teh train is correct and P.C. Moss says in the inquest that he found a bus ticket and a train tramways ticket on him. He says what he was shown in the Inquest was similar but not the actual tickets he found on his person when he was discovered.

Lawson was a taxidermist, not a pathologist or doctor so not sure why you're quoting him for the cause of death. There were pages of evidence from two different doctors that confirm digitalis (although the name is not mentioned in the Inquest) as the cause of death, but signs of vomiting not present. Digitalis also causes soiling of trousers as a side effect.

Barbiturates are considered in depth in the Inquest and ruled out as far as I can tell.

1. Clive Turner interviewed Pau Lawson last week, he spoke about his telephone conversations with Cleland and his view following those discussions was that it was an injection of Phenobarbital. It's on the blog but I don't like to push that here.
2. The date of the ad for the bungalow was 27th November you'll find that on Trove I think :
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/...chLimits=l-state=South+Australia|||l-title=44 Look under Houses and Land Wanted
3. Don't disagree regarding the train trip, he could even have hopped off the Kangaroo Island Ferry. Personally I think it's possible that he had arrived following a lengthy journey from a cooler climate hence the clothes. Another thing that makes me think that is the fact that he was apparently dozing or sleeping so early in the evening and awake again around midnight (I think) That could be because of the effects of a poison or the effects of travel or both?
4. Yes, Moss said the tickets were similar I don't think he actually said that they weren't the same?
5. I think that the Doctor's views were that it could have been Digitalis but it wasn't confirmed. What was certain was that it was fast-acting and hard to trace which, at the time, would have been the case for Digitalis but also other drugs such as Saxitoxin. Stand to be corrected on that.

 

[Redacted]

1. Clive Turner interviewed Pau Lawson last week, he spoke about his telephone conversations with Cleland and his view following those discussions was that it was an injection of Phenobarbital. It's on the blog but I don't like to push that here.
2. The date of the ad for the bungalow was 27th November you'll find that on Trove I think.
3. Don't disagree regarding the train trip, he could even have hopped off the Kangaroo Island Ferry. Personally I think it's possible that he had arrived following a lengthy journey from a cooler climate hence the clothes. Another thing that makes me think that is the fact that he was apparently dozing or sleeping so early in the evening and awake again around midnight (I think) That could be because of the effects of a poison or the effects of travel or both?
4. Yes, Moss said the tickets were similar I don't think he actually said that they weren't the same?
5. I think that the Doctor's views were that it could have been Digitalis but it wasn't confirmed. What was certain was that it was fast-acting and hard to trace which, at the time, would have been the case for Digitalis but also other drugs such as Saxitoxin. Stand to be corrected on that.

I'm not convinced that digitalis assumption is safe either.

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Abstract / SummaryDate: 18.8.18. Informant: Motagoi. A passage in the Trobriand language with simultaneous English translation, numbered J185, discusses death by eating tuva, a vine with a poisonous root; and how its apparently disfiguring effects are why the spirits of those who die this way live in a separate village in the underworld. The information is written on the back of reused stationery, consisting of a wedding announcement for Carmen Delprat and P.E. Teppema in Melbourne, Australia.


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Noting that Robert Victor Hemblys Scales (MI5) visited Dr Lica Sprod (nee Delprat) in Unley Park, South Australia in late October 1948 with his soon to be fiance, Tania Teppema (The daughter of PE Teppema and C Delprat).
Dr Sprod's previous abode was a few doors down from Thomson on Moseley St, Glenelg, and previously had a surgery on Jetty Rd in the same building as the chemist who 'found' the Rubiayat.
Someone was studying exotic poisons and used an invite to Dr Sprod's sister's wedding to ask someone to write down the effects of such a poison. Of G Delprat's children, only 1 didn't study medicine (Carmen), the one that married P E Teppema, so whoever was collecting stories of exotic poisons with an invite to Carmen's wedding, must've been either Dr Mary Mawson or Dr Lica Sprod.
Tania and Robert visited both in Adelaide in October 1948, however I doubt that Lady Douglas Mawson knew as much about Glenelg as Dr Lica Sprod.
Noted also is Dr Lica Sprod was the widow of Dr Milo Weeks Sprod, who died 'after a short illness' in 1932.
Personally, I probably wouldn't drink any tea that Dr Lica Sprod made.

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[BlueE]

1. Clive Turner interviewed Pau Lawson last week, he spoke about his telephone conversations with Cleland and his view following those discussions was that it was an injection of Phenobarbital. It's on the blog but I don't like to push that here.
2. The date of the ad for the bungalow was 27th November you'll find that on Trove I think.
3. Don't disagree regarding the train trip, he could even have hopped off the Kangaroo Island Ferry. Personally I think it's possible that he had arrived following a lengthy journey from a cooler climate hence the clothes. Another thing that makes me think that is the fact that he was apparently dozing or sleeping so early in the evening and awake again around midnight (I think) That could be because of the effects of a poison or the effects of travel or both?
4. Yes, Moss said the tickets were similar I don't think he actually said that they weren't the same?
5. I think that the Doctor's views were that it could have been Digitalis but it wasn't confirmed. What was certain was that it was fast-acting and hard to trace which, at the time, would have been the case for Digitalis but also other drugs such as Saxitoxin. Stand to be corrected on that.

So do you think it was unusual for Prosper to have 1500 pounds cash in hand, enough to buy a bungalow on the 27th November 1948, a date when SM was possibly staying in Adelaide?

1. Interesting. Did Clive Turner show Mr Lawson the two entries from his notes that mention respectively the second body and the other body, and ask if there was a second body? Do you have audio or a transcript of this interview?

If it wasn't for Paul Lawson making the plaster bust there wouldn't be an accurate image of what SM looked like IMO. He also captured real hair showing the actual colour of SM's hair. His physical description in the Inquest was surprisingly the most detailed that was included in the Inquest. The police reports of 22nd December 1948 and 22nd November 1959 had significantly more physical description, including a dental map which although was regarded as the only accurate means of ID at eh time was also not included in the Inquest documents.

He shows himself to be honourable in withholding Jo Harkness's name and description of her reaction to the SM's bust under Stuart Littlemore's dogged questioning even in 1978, as it was under suppression at the time.

Dr John Cleland says it would be rare not to detect barbiturates especially in the large dose that would need to be taken for death to occur. In fact Dr John Cleland said barbiturates would have been readily detected.

Dr Dwyer thought it was barbiturate or a soluble hypnotic, but was astounded when the chemist Mr Cowan found no trace. .

Sir Stanton Hicks summarised the Dr's and chemists findings saying "First of all I accept the findings of Mr. Cowan, who is a very competent and conscientious chemist, and then acting on the possibility of there still being an undiscovered barbiturate, I would expect to find death from respiratory failure and an enlarged left ventricle of the heart, which was not the case. The post mortem findings exclude the possibility of barbiturates being the cause of death, in my opinion."

He goes on to say that in some cases where barbiturates may be the cause of death but not detected couldn't happen in this case because of the condition of the man's heart and vicera. In his opinion the dose needed to cause death would have been easily detectable in the 7 hours or so from when the est time of death was until tissue samples were taken. In his detailed summary Sir Stanton Hicks gives the most likely poison to be used which was suppressed in the Inquest. He gives two likely poisons with one later revealed to be digitalis.

I wonder if Coroner Eskine Cleland was thinking about the other Inquest of Clive Mangonoson he was in charge of where Dr Dwyer suggested barbiturates were the cause of death and Coroner Eskine Cleland made the finding he died from exposure?

It's interesting that Paul Lawson seems very agreeable to whoever seems to be interviewing him and he easily changed his accurate description of the feet in his Inquest (wedge shape with the big toe and little toes almost meeting) affidavit to match Derek Abbott's idea of what the feet of the SM looked like (normal), when Lawson was interviewed by Prof Abbott.

4. P.C. John Moss says "I made it my business to make an accurate record of what I found ..."

I have no reason to doubt P.C. Moss's affidavit and while Mr Lyons may have been influenced by Corner Cleland to change his affidavit w.r.t. to adding an unsmoked cigarette above SM's ear, P.C. Moss doesn't change.

Moss says "I searched the clothing, found a railway ticket to Henley Beach, also a bus ticket, a tramway bus ticket." ... "The bus ticket produced and the railway ticket are similar to the tickets found on the body" Not the same or he would have identified them as the same. He also never found any coin or piece of paper with Tamam Shud.

 

[Gordon1552]

So do you think it was unusual for Prosper to have 1500 pounds cash in hand, enough to buy a bungalow on the 27th November 1948, a date when SM was possibly staying in Adelaide?

1. Interesting. Did Clive Turner show Mr Lawson the two entries from his notes that mention respectively the second body and the other body, and ask if there was a second body? Do you have audio or a transcript of this interview?

If it wasn't for Paul Lawson making the plaster bust there wouldn't be an accurate image of what SM looked like IMO. He also captured real hair showing the actual colour of SM's hair. His physical description in the Inquest was surprisingly the most detailed that was included in the Inquest. The police reports of 22nd December 1948 and 22nd November 1959 had significantly more physical description, including a dental map which although was regarded as the only accurate means of ID at eh time was also not included in the Inquest documents.

He shows himself to be honourable in withholding Jo Harkness's name and description of her reaction to the SM's bust under Stuart Littlemore's dogged questioning even in 1978, as it was under suppression at the time.

Dr John Cleland says it would be rare not to detect barbiturates especially in the large dose that would need to be taken for death to occur. In fact Dr John Cleland said barbiturates would have been readily detected.

Dr Dwyer thought it was barbiturate or a soluble hypnotic, but was astounded when the chemist Mr Cowan found no trace. .

Sir Stanton Hicks summarised the Dr's and chemists findings saying "First of all I accept the findings of Mr. Cowan, who is a very competent and conscientious chemist, and then acting on the possibility of there still being an undiscovered barbiturate, I would expect to find death from respiratory failure and an enlarged left ventricle of the heart, which was not the case. The post mortem findings exclude the possibility of barbiturates being the cause of death, in my opinion."

He goes on to say that in some cases where barbiturates may be the cause of death but not detected couldn't happen in this case because of the condition of the man's heart and vicera. In his opinion the dose needed to cause death would have been easily detectable in the 7 hours or so from when the est time of death was until tissue samples were taken. In his detailed summary Sir Stanton Hicks gives the most likely poison to be used which was suppressed in the Inquest. He gives two likely poisons with one later revealed to be digitalis.

I wonder if Coroner Eskine Cleland was thinking about the other Inquest of Clive Mangonoson he was in charge of where Dr Dwyer suggested barbiturates were the cause of death and Coroner Eskine Cleland made the finding he died from exposure?

It's interesting that Paul Lawson seems very agreeable to whoever seems to be interviewing him and he easily changed his accurate description of the feet in his Inquest (wedge shape with the big toe and little toes almost meeting) affidavit to match Derek Abbott's idea of what the feet of the SM looked like (normal), when Lawson was interviewed by Prof Abbott.

4. P.C. John Moss says "I made it my business to make an accurate record of what I found ..."

I have no reason to doubt P.C. Moss's affidavit and while Mr Lyons may have been influenced by Corner Cleland to change his affidavit w.r.t. to adding an unsmoked cigarette above SM's ear, P.C. Moss doesn't change.

Moss says "I searched the clothing, found a railway ticket to Henley Beach, also a bus ticket, a tramway bus ticket." ... "The bus ticket produced and the railway ticket are similar to the tickets found on the body" Not the same or he would have identified them as the same. He also never found any coin or piece of paper with Tamam Shud.

Good stuff.
1. I did a series of posts on Clive's interviews over the past few years, we had discussed the questions in advance and the question regarding a second body was definitely put to him but he deflected it. I'll dig out the links to the relevant posts if you like or can just copy and paste.
2. I really don't know much about Prosper's financial situation, it could be that he had been given some sort of guarantee of funding to that amount? I find it curious that this was just 4 days prior to the SM incident.
3. Paul is a good man, old school. He maintains that the original bust was destroyed despite discussing a second bust with his director. He may have fragments and hair samples. Incidentally, some years ago I had a discussion about the bust with Derek and convinced him that there may just be DNA in the hairs that were visible in some of the images. Eventually, he was convinced Back to Paul, in one interview he confirmed that he didn't actually make the mold of the man's face, he used photographs from the Police to model it.
4. On the issue of Barbiturates, the hesitation, from what I read, was in the discussion of solid versions versus an injection. I would suggest that we should be mindful of the fact that numerous poisons and variations were being actively developed by all sides, it is quite possible that given we are dealing with an espionage case, then there is a distinct possibility that one of those poisons was used.
5. Not that familiar with the Magnason case so can't really comment on that.
6. PC Moss was also a good man, he did the best job he could in my view. He wasn't invincible and many cases I was involved with, errors of one sort or another were relatively common. So whilst Constable Moss searched the body, for example, he separately said that he searched the clothing. The latter would indicate that he carried out that search in the morgue. One statement he made was that he had not compared the part smoked cigarette with those in the packet. That was a critical error in my view. However, he volunteered the information which is a mark of the man he was. Notably, no one else took the trouble to compare the part smoked cigarette with the packet ones either. If they had done they may have found traces of a poison but we will never know that. It does leave it open as an option though some poisons work well as fumes. It is possible that the exhumation and subsequent examination of the body may just reveal more than the DNA, I would hope so.

Here's a link to what I call the store, I have a collection of a number of documents and images that may be of use, please feel free to access them. I have other documents that I need to sort out and when I do I will make them available if they're of interest:

SM_TheStore - Google Drive

drive.google.com

This link is to a set of papers regarding KGB networks in Australia from 1944 to 1950, a bit disjointed in parts but there is a stack of useful information:

 

[Redacted]

So do you think it was unusual for Prosper to have 1500 pounds cash in hand, enough to buy a bungalow on the 27th November 1948, a date when SM was possibly staying in Adelaide?
...Snipped...
.

Prosper might've sponged the dough off his younger brother. 》

Gaston Chalmers Thomson, born 1920, 6ft 3 3/4 inch, fair hair, blue eyes, scar on wrist. Names his brother, Prosper as Next of Kin on his service record.
Lives in Bondi upon discharge from the Navy in 1945. Gets a pay out of a small fortune £235,10,0 for those days.

Part of RecordSearch unavailable

He sells up his share of a spray painting business in 1946 and moves from Vaucluse to Gosford allegedly.

NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore sub - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 25 Jan 1946

nla.gov.au

Has a life insurance policy reissued in 1943 after losing it.

NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore sub - Government Gazette of the State of New South Wales (Sydney, NSW : 1901 - 2001) - 25 Jan 1946

nla.gov.au

A Gaston Charles (SIC?) Thomson, Railway Guard reported as injured, (but not dead), in Gosford 1953 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article167379340
Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

 

[Redacted]

17 Oct 1948 - The Sydney dinner party clue in the secret documents case - The Sun (Sydney, NSW) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article231142441

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

 

[BlueE]

Prosper might've sponged the dough off his younger brother. 》

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

Think there were about 4 brothers so his 250 pounds wouldn't stretch far, and Prosper didn't seem to be sharing his 1500 pounds.

 

[BlueE]

Good stuff.
1. I did a series of posts on Clive's interviews over the past few years, we had discussed the questions in advance and the question regarding a second body was definitely put to him but he deflected it. I'll dig out the links to the relevant posts if you like or can just copy and paste.
2. I really don't know much about Prosper's financial situation, it could be that he had been given some sort of guarantee of funding to that amount? I find it curious that this was just 4 days prior to the SM incident.
3. Paul is a good man, old school. He maintains that the original bust was destroyed despite discussing a second bust with his director. He may have fragments and hair samples. Incidentally, some years ago I had a discussion about the bust with Derek and convinced him that there may just be DNA in the hairs that were visible in some of the images. Eventually, he was convinced Back to Paul, in one interview he confirmed that he didn't actually make the mold of the man's face, he used photographs from the Police to model it.
4. On the issue of Barbiturates, the hesitation, from what I read, was in the discussion of solid versions versus an injection. I would suggest that we should be mindful of the fact that numerous poisons and variations were being actively developed by all sides, it is quite possible that given we are dealing with an espionage case, then there is a distinct possibility that one of those poisons was used.
5. Not that familiar with the Magnason case so can't really comment on that.
6. PC Moss was also a good man, he did the best job he could in my view. He wasn't invincible and many cases I was involved with, errors of one sort or another were relatively common. So whilst Constable Moss searched the body, for example, he separately said that he searched the clothing. The latter would indicate that he carried out that search in the morgue. One statement he made was that he had not compared the part smoked cigarette with those in the packet. That was a critical error in my view. However, he volunteered the information which is a mark of the man he was. Notably, no one else took the trouble to compare the part smoked cigarette with the packet ones either. If they had done they may have found traces of a poison but we will never know that. It does leave it open as an option though some poisons work well as fumes. It is possible that the exhumation and subsequent examination of the body may just reveal more than the DNA, I would hope so.

Here's a link to what I call the store, I have a collection of a number of documents and images that may be of use, please feel free to access them. I have other documents that I need to sort out and when I do I will make them available if they're of interest:

SM_TheStore - Google Drive

drive.google.com

This link is to a set of papers regarding KGB networks in Australia from 1944 to 1950, a bit disjointed in parts but there is a stack of useful information:

Reading Mr Lawson's description of how he made the plaster cast and because the body had been frozen as well as embalmed which meant sweating of the skin made it difficult for him, I have no doubt he used the actual body to make the cast. And the actual hairs from the head of SM were caught in the plaster.
Anything he says that is different now like suggesting he made it from photographs I think shows his dedication to keeping secrets if he was told to. "Loose lips sinks ships" was real during the war and after for many years. He would not be a person to question if he was told not to give information or access to the bust.

This is where it gets interesting with SA police. On one hand they say they need to keep the DNA samples from the hair found in the plaster because this is an open case. His DNA is only to be used to establish his identity, so why haven't SA police proceeded with the analysis or if they have why haven't they released their results? DNA will solve his identity in weeks.

Then on the other the AG says you can dig up the body but you have to go and raise the money for that yourself. It's still an open case so why don't SA police pay for the exhumation as permission is now given? Maybe it's not him buried there or the coffin is full or rocks??

There are about 20 pages of analysis from Dr's, pathologist, chemist, and an excellent summary from Sir Stanton Hicks on what killed the SM. Prf icks is in no doubt is wasn't barbiturates and gives reasons for this and also taking into account if there was a dose taken that didn't show in the toxicology it would still be impossible for the poison to be barbiturates and he lists the reasons why.

Prof Hicks is certain the poison that killed SM could have only been one of two types. These are both suppressed in the Inquest because both are from common plants and it was thought by naming them it could cause people to use them. From what I've read since the poisons were digitalis (foxgove) and oleander.

He names (Edit: He gives them numbers) these poisons despite knowing that both cause copious vomiting and sometimes soling of trousers. But it is the poison that explains the effects on the man's organs. I believe that's why Coroner Cleland says he can't say where the man died.

No matches meant someone else lit the cigarette and whether that person smoked it or SM, doesn't really matter but at lease one other person was there.

 

[Mycroft]

Reading Mr Lawson's description of how he made the plaster cast and because the body had been frozen as well as embalmed which meant sweating of the skin made it difficult for him, I have no doubt he used the actual body to make the cast. And the actual hairs from the head of SM were caught in the plaster.
Anything he says that is different now like suggesting he made it from photographs I think shows his dedication to keeping secrets if he was told to. "Loose lips sinks ships" was real during the war and after for many years. He would not be a person to question if he was told not to give information or access to the bust.

This is where it gets interesting with SA police. On one hand they say they need to keep the DNA samples from the hair found in the plaster because this is an open case. His DNA is only to be used to establish his identity, so why haven't SA police proceeded with the analysis or if they have why haven't they released their results? DNA will solve his identity in weeks.

Then on the other the AG says you can dig up the body but you have to go and raise the money for that yourself. It's still an open case so why don't SA police pay for the exhumation as permission is now given? Maybe it's not him buried there or the coffin is full or rocks??

There are about 20 pages of analysis from Dr's, pathologist, chemist, and an excellent summary from Sir Stanton Hicks on what killed the SM. Prf icks is in no doubt is wasn't barbiturates and gives reasons for this and also taking into account if there was a dose taken that didn't show in the toxicology it would still be impossible for the poison to be barbiturates and he lists the reasons why.

Prof Hicks is certain the poison that killed SM could have only been one of two types. These are both suppressed in the Inquest because both are from common plants and it was thought by naming them it could cause people to use them. From what I've read since the poisons were digitalis (foxgove) and oleander.

He names these poisons despite knowing that both cause copious vomiting and sometimes soling of trousers. But it is the poison that explains the effects on the man's organs. I believe that's why Coroner Cleland says he can't say where the man died.

No matches meant someone else lit the cigarette and whether that person smoked it or SM, doesn't really matter but at lease one other person was there.

Swab samples were also taken from SM's plaster cast last year, thus not solely reliant on SM's hair this time. New testing methods developed at Flinder's University Forensics lab were used as well (but taken by FSSA for this). Due to the cloud of mystery and suspicion surrounding SM these past 70 years, it's right to validate 'what's in the box'. There's those said to be buried beneath SM as well. Were they also unclaimed & un-named. Did they die in institutional care, then claimed by the State... used as medical cadavers (past practice). Does SM's 'unknown man' headstone symbolises all that are buried there. While the ground's open they should all be DNA tested, and this could further assist scientific understanding in how long DNA material is viable... Serve as a comparison to human remains not embalmed, but kept in the same environment.

I also believe SAPOL should take responsibility for costs, rather than create a fund raising and media circus, whereby commercial interests pay and the public watch (as done with the Beaumont children's Castaloy dig fiasco). Had SAPOL kept the suitcase (DNA), SM's exhumation might have been avoided, thus the State pays costs for their mistake. If it's 'all about money', once all testing, scanning, filming etc. is done, SM can be cremated to save costs. SM's bust has been an exhibit at the Police Museum for years. Had he charged his audience, he could pay to get his name back.