Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Gordon1552]

The corpse is still interred in his grave.
No.
It's up to the person/s who contracted a DNA matching service whether they release the result of a gedmatch of living persons to the public. They'll need to consult with the two families that the match says are related even though the common ancestor is deceased.
IMO the only value of knowing is that it extinguished any possibility of the theory that Somerton Man was the father of Robin Thomson as it's someone else. Releasing details in my opinion would just result in living descendants having to bear with unwarranted and possibly salacious media attention.
There is no possibility that Somerton Man DNA can be found via Robin's descendants so you'll have to either wait to the corpse to be exhumed or better technology to be employed with what samples we got, like the hair from the plaster cast etc.

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Nicely put..

 

[Kurve]

The Somerton Man is to be exhumed for DNA testing.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kurve]

Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Redacted]

Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

The Somerton Man is to be exhumed for DNA testing.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

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[Kurve]

We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

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We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.

 

[Gordon1552]

We can wait and see. Hopefully descendants of his family members, siblings, cousin etc exist and with any luck maybe one of them did one of those genealogy DNA kits, or possibly got their DNA on a database that's accessible to law enforcement. Once a % match is made, it'll probably go down to a long haul through various records and archives to hone in on a possible person who fits the physical description, who could've travelled to Adelaide and was unaccounted for in the time period. I doubt an early resolution but I think that the first thing that could be laid to rest and resolved is Professor Abbott's theory that he once postulated that his wife is a descendant of Somerton Man once and for all.

As an aside, I'd also like Tibor Kaldor's remains to be exhumed and DNA extracted to see if the 2 are related at the very least, but I doubt if SA Police would even consider doing Kaldor, even though evidence is being uncovered at the moment which is strongly suggesting that the person who died in Adelaide a short time after Somerton Man going by the name of Tibor Kaldor since 1934 was probably using false identification, having assumed the Identity of the real Tibor Kaldor, who appears to of been deported to a concentration camp and died.
Whether this potential imposter is related to Somerton Man or not, it would be usefull to establish his real identity in case his appearance in Adelaide is possibly related to the appearance of Somerton Man in Adelaide also, and thus might illuminate the "why".
The "why", as in why was Somerton Man in Adelaide and the why did he die?
A link between "Tibor Kaldor" and Somerton Man is a long shot as it is, but there appears to be a long way to go to resolving this mystery, and this maybe one avenue worth considering as an avenue that might resolve the mystery fairly rapidly.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

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Tibor Kaldor was buried in a pauper shared grave. That particular plot along with others was churned up by an over-anxious developer I think in the 1970s but will check the dates. The bottom line is that the remains of all of those were churned into the soil.

Pretty sure they will find his DNA, bones or teeth should do it and interesting that Professor Abbott has stressed a difference between DNA testing to solve crime and DNA testing to identify genealogy. If the police are managing the exhumation, surely Somerton Man's DNA will get a run through our criminal databases as well.

Somerton Man to be exhumed by police in attempt to solve mystery

The remains of the mysterious Somerton Man, whose body was found on an Adelaide beach almost 73 years ago, will be exhumed by police in the hope that DNA samples could identify the man whose death has baffled detectives, researchers and amateur sleuths for decades.

www.abc.net.au

We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.

 

[Gordon1552]

Tibor Kaldor was buried in a pauper shared grave. That particular plot along with others was churned up by an over-anxious developer I think in the 1970s but will check the dates. The bottom line is that the remains of all of those were churned into the soil.

We might get a surprise on this, it's real exciting anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up.

I made the point in a post elsewhere that the first thing to be addressed is the issue of the diagram of the Somerton Mans teeth prepared by Dr Dwyer, the teeth of the man they exhume should be an exact match. If they are then it will clarify the claims by Professor Abbott that the man had hypodontia, or did he?

On the other hand, if there isn't a match, which is a possibility given the information gleaned from Paul Lawson's diaries and the now renowned phrase, 'the disposal of the original body', plus comments made by Paul to the effect that he did not make the bust of the face of the man but used the Police photographs to shape the face and other comments that described the inside of the man's skull having been cleaned out completely, no trace of any tissue. Most unusual. If we add to that the fact there was no continuity of identification between the Police and Paul Lawson, Paul was only told that 'this is the body of the man that we ant you to make a bust of', procedures would demand that what should have been said is 'This is the body of the man that was found on Somerton Beach on December 1st 1948 and we want you to make a bust of his head and face.' Sounds picky but those were the procedures.

 

[Redacted]

Another thing that needs to be reviewed is the torn piece of paper and the book that it was torn from.
The SA Police found a phone number and it caused them to interview Jessica Harkness.
It appears that they assumed that the Somerton Man pocessed the book and wrote the phone number in it.
To me this assumption is unsafe.
There could be a far simpler alternative.
The telephone number might of been written by Jessica. The book might've been hers.
Somerton Man might just of picked up her book after figuring that he'd just been poisoned, and being familiar with the book itself, tor the piece to plant upon his person in case he was found dead knowing that it would lead back to the book, which would implicate his killers. If the book was found and police did their job.
Otherwise, if Police are to continue to assume that the book was his, then how did he get a new phone number? And why travel to Adelaide when he could've just rung her up instead, or ring her up before arriving so he could be picked up from the station with his bag? Why do door knocking on neighbour's if you had her phone number? and if you wanted to surprise her.
In my opinion No, the book wasn't his and he didn't write in it. He stole it from his killer to leave a trail back to who did him in.

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[Redacted]

Another unsafe assumption is the circumstances in which how the book was found.
Taking Jessica's explanations and Chemist Freeman's explanations at face value might be all that SA Police could do at the time, but given the findings of the Coroner over cause of death and the lack of finding any identity documents, a wallet, even a missing means of lighting the cigarettes found upon the corpse, and no container for a poison, it would beggar belief that Jessica and the chemists statements didn't warrant further scrutiny, and a decision to get them back in for a more rigorous set of questions to elicit a more satisfactory explanation of these circumstances.

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[Gordon1552]

Another thing that needs to be reviewed is the torn piece of paper and the book that it was torn from.
The SA Police found a phone number and it caused them to interview Jessica Harkness.
It appears that they assumed that the Somerton Man pocessed the book and wrote the phone number in it.
To me this assumption is unsafe.
There could be a far simpler alternative.
The telephone number might of been written by Jessica. The book might've been hers.
Somerton Man might just of picked up her book after figuring that he'd just been poisoned, and being familiar with the book itself, tor the piece to plant upon his person in case he was found dead knowing that it would lead back to the book, which would implicate his killers. If the book was found and police did their job.
Otherwise, if Police are to continue to assume that the book was his, then how did he get a new phone number? And why travel to Adelaide when he could've just rung her up instead, or ring her up before arriving so he could be picked up from the station with his bag? Why do door knocking on neighbour's if you had her phone number? and if you wanted to surprise her.
In my opinion No, the book wasn't his and he didn't write in it. He stole it from his killer to leave a trail back to who did him in.

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My thoughts were that she had written the number on the book shortly after she and Prosper moved in, she was simply recording the telephone number that had been allocated to them.

 

[Redacted]

The Somerton man: Cold case: Is a Kiwi mum the key to solving 72-year-old mystery?

Published 16 May, 2021 @ 01:00 AM

The Somerton man: Cold case: Is a Kiwi mum the key to solving 72-year-old mystery? - NZ Herald

Mystery may be solved after exhumation order signed off.

www.nzherald.co.nz

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[Kurve]

The Somerton man: Cold case: Is a Kiwi mum the key to solving 72-year-old mystery?

Published 16 May, 2021 @ 01:00 AM

The Somerton man: Cold case: Is a Kiwi mum the key to solving 72-year-old mystery? - NZ Herald

Mystery may be solved after exhumation order signed off.

www.nzherald.co.nz

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Could be. Given the time and resources her and her husband have put in to having Somerton Man exhumed, they're both going to be a bit disappointed if he isn't her grandfather.

 

[sprockets]

Grim plan to ID body found more than 70 years ago

A man’s body will be exhumed in South Australia more than 70 years after it was mysteriously found on Somerton Beach near Adelaide.

www.news.com.au

 

[BonzaRam]

He is being exhumed today.

Bones discovered as exhumation of mysterious Somerton Man's remains continues

After more than 70 years buried in a grave marked "the unknown man", the mysterious Somerton Man is being exhumed today — the first step towards potentially developing a DNA profile and cracking the decades-long cold case.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Redacted]

Could be. Given the time and resources her and her husband have put in to having Somerton Man exhumed, they're both going to be a bit disappointed if he isn't her grandfather.

In theory establishing whether SM might've been her maternal grandfather could be achieved by a process of elimination.
A DNA sample would have 4 grandparent lines, if one finds GED matches to cousins from 3 of the grandparents lines in her family tree, then there should be some near matches that are unknown to your own tree, if anyone in her maternal grandfathers lineage has done such a DNA test and posted it on a GED matching site then it's probably from her maternal grandfather's lineage. If so and they are from a DNA line of a known acquaintance of her maternal grandmother, who was alive after SM died, then you'll have a very good possibility that SM is not her grandfather.


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[Kurve]

Breaking.

Somerton Man is out of the ground.

 

[annawinter608]

Complete remains of Somerton Man in 'reasonable condition' after exhumation

The Somerton Man's remains are now in the care of forensic scientists after a 12-hour dig to exhume them from Adelaide's West Terrace Cemetery, with police optimistic about recovering DNA.

www.abc.net.au

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[Redacted]

In theory establishing whether SM might've been her maternal grandfather could be achieved by a process of elimination.
A DNA sample would have 4 grandparent lines, if one finds GED matches to cousins from 3 of the grandparents lines in her family tree, then there should be some near matches that are unknown to your own tree, if anyone in her maternal grandfathers lineage has done such a DNA test and posted it on a GED matching site then it's probably from her maternal grandfather's lineage. If so and they are from a DNA line of a known acquaintance of her maternal grandmother, who was alive after SM died, then you'll have a very good possibility that SM is not her grandfather.


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He is being exhumed today.

Bones discovered as exhumation of mysterious Somerton Man's remains continues

After more than 70 years buried in a grave marked "the unknown man", the mysterious Somerton Man is being exhumed today — the first step towards potentially developing a DNA profile and cracking the decades-long cold case.

www.abc.net.au

BTW, something I took notice of awhile ago, and is reiterated today is the walk back by the learned professor of his once enthusiastic claims of SM being the father of Robin. This lead me to think that indeed the professor's wife had done one of them DNA genealogical kits, and probably either himself or through one of those companies like familytreedna.com had already discovered that her maternal grandfather is not SM. Other clues that I saw when drilling down the genealogy of a known associate of Jessica's at the time when she would've conceived Robin, struck me as too coincidental. Things that appeared in a homemade genealogical book by his daughter Robyn who is a year older than Robin and was born in the hospital that Jessica worked in also suggested that the author expected that Robin would be discovered as a half sibling, after all, he did ballet too.
Something told to me later by a somerton man researcher was very suggestive that such testing of Mrs Abbott and the discovery of a maternal grandfather through DNA genealogical matching had indeed recently taken place.
Hence my posts to warn him to keep any non sm results out of the media. You'll know why when you read the post. I think that the Professor made a rod for his back by putting too much faith on that theory without considering the real world consequences of how to deal with the discovery of his wife's maternal grandfather's living relatives, because that's what these genealogical DNA tests do.

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[Kurve]

Anybody seen anything by way of an estimate on how long it might take before we get a result? If it's private money funding this I'm thinking his DNA will go to the front of the queue?

 

[SquiffyRae]

Grim plan to ID body found more than 70 years ago

A man’s body will be exhumed in South Australia more than 70 years after it was mysteriously found on Somerton Beach near Adelaide.

www.news.com.au

I can tell I've seen too much true crime cause I'm thinking that grim is a bit of a sensational way to describe exhuming a body. It's not exactly a pleasant thing but we're not exactly talking about the crimes of Bevan Spencer von Einem or John Bunting here. I'm sure it's being done with the utmost of respect towards this gentleman

 

[BonzaRam]

Anybody seen anything by way of an estimate on how long it might take before we get a result? If it's private money funding this I'm thinking his DNA will go to the front of the queue?

Earlier on the SA news they said a few weeks to a few months for any results. Not sure how optimistic they are being with that estimate but we do have Advance DNA Testing Facilities at Adelaide UNi so maybe it will only take that long.

 

[Redacted]

Anybody seen anything by way of an estimate on how long it might take before we get a result? If it's private money funding this I'm thinking his DNA will go to the front of the queue?

Earlier on the SA news they said a few weeks to a few months for any results. Not sure how optimistic they are being with that estimate but we do have Advance DNA Testing Facilities at Adelaide UNi so maybe it will only take that long.

From what was reported yesterday

Complete remains of Somerton Man in 'reasonable condition' after exhumation

The Somerton Man's remains are now in the care of forensic scientists after a 12-hour dig to exhume them from Adelaide's West Terrace Cemetery, with police optimistic about recovering DNA.

www.abc.net.au

"Even if we do find DNA present, we may not actually find a match. It will depend on who's on the databases that we're looking at and what information can be extracted from the comparison that's made."


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[Kurve]

From what was reported yesterday

Complete remains of Somerton Man in 'reasonable condition' after exhumation

The Somerton Man's remains are now in the care of forensic scientists after a 12-hour dig to exhume them from Adelaide's West Terrace Cemetery, with police optimistic about recovering DNA.

www.abc.net.au

"Even if we do find DNA present, we may not actually find a match. It will depend on who's on the databases that we're looking at and what information can be extracted from the comparison that's made."


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He might have been an only child and had no kids too but if so, further down the track we might get something by way of results off the bone people who can tell us where he grew up at least.

 

[Kurve]

I'm real optimistic about this.

 

[Redacted]

He might have been an only child and had no kids too but if so, further down the track we might get something by way of results off the bone people who can tell us where he grew up at least.

Just in case a reader is wondering what you mean

How Isotope Hunters Are Using Isotope Fingerprints to Solve Criminal Forensic Cases

When investigating for a forensic case, the first step is to collect physical evidence. In some cases, however, the evidence required can only be uncovered by means of analytical techniques. Anything found at a crime or forensic scene could be the link investigators need to determine the past...

analyteguru.com

A real world example of using an isotope to geo locate where someone came from and how it's actually done.

Where did you grow up? How strontium in your teeth can help answer that question https://theconversation.com/where-d...ur-teeth-can-help-answer-that-question-112705

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