Unsolved Taman Shud Case - The Somerton Man

[Mofra]

Just in case a reader is wondering what you mean

How Isotope Hunters Are Using Isotope Fingerprints to Solve Criminal Forensic Cases

When investigating for a forensic case, the first step is to collect physical evidence. In some cases, however, the evidence required can only be uncovered by means of analytical techniques. Anything found at a crime or forensic scene could be the link investigators need to determine the past...

analyteguru.com

A real world example of using an isotope to geo locate where someone came from and how it's actually done.

Where did you grow up? How strontium in your teeth can help answer that question https://theconversation.com/where-d...ur-teeth-can-help-answer-that-question-112705

Some of the past theories about him being from the US or Russia should at least be able to be confirmed or denied based on the testing.
It's still one of Australia's most fascinating unsolved mysteries

 

[Redacted]

The Somerton Man's remains have been exhumed — so what happens next? - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-20/somerton-man-forensic-process-following-exhumation/100150868

Article only mentions the DNA aspect. There's probably a lot more than that which they'll do.

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[SquiffyRae]

"Even if we do find DNA present, we may not actually find a match. It will depend on who's on the databases that we're looking at and what information can be extracted from the comparison that's made."

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At the very least this way they should hopefully be able to get a usable DNA profile to input into a database for any future comparisons even if this current angle goes nowhere. If it's high enough quality I wonder if they'll try whacking it into one of those Ancestry.com or 23andMe family tree databases and see if they score any unexpected hits. Imagine how freaky that'd be. You do a DNA test to trace your family history and one of your relatives turns out to be an unknown man at the centre of one of the world's biggest unsolved mysteries.

Also was anyone else surprised at the implication that he was originally buried without a coffin? The way the ABC article was worded it sounds like he wasn't even given a wooden box and they had to delicately remove his remains as they were. In a way it's kind of touching that if that's how he was originally buried that he'll eventually be re-interred in a nice new coffin that looks like people care

 

[Gordon1552]

The Somerton Man's remains have been exhumed — so what happens next? - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-20/somerton-man-forensic-process-following-exhumation/100150868

Article only mentions the DNA aspect. There's probably a lot more than that which they'll do.

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And still the big question has not been asked by the media. During the autopsy a detailed dental chart was taken, the man had 18 teeth missing and the chart revealed just which ones they were. The remains should have the same identical dental chart, no one's asked and none has mentioned it. Detective Supt Bray informed us that the remains were identified because there was a tag with the remains. Any thoughts on that? Is that a 'positive identification'?

If a new chart is made and it doesn't match up, then what? What's the betting it gets asked by the weekend?

 

[GreyCrow]

At the very least this way they should hopefully be able to get a usable DNA profile to input into a database for any future comparisons even if this current angle goes nowhere. If it's high enough quality I wonder if they'll try whacking it into one of those Ancestry.com or 23andMe family tree databases and see if they score any unexpected hits. Imagine how freaky that'd be. You do a DNA test to trace your family history and one of your relatives turns out to be an unknown man at the centre of one of the world's biggest unsolved mysteries.

Also was anyone else surprised at the implication that he was originally buried without a coffin? The way the ABC article was worded it sounds like he wasn't even given a wooden box and they had to delicately remove his remains as they were. In a way it's kind of touching that if that's how he was originally buried that he'll eventually be re-interred in a nice new coffin that looks like people care

Struggling to confirm but paupers and indigents - which unfortunately he would be classed as - were given cardboard coffins - but I could be wrong

 

[GreyCrow]

I wonder if while exhumed Maceij Henneberg (if he is involved) will do all the appropriate tests ie strontium , DNA and phenotyping etc

 

[Gordon1552]

Struggling to confirm but paupers and indigents - which unfortunately he would be classed as - were given cardboard coffins - but I could be wrong

Sadly, West terrace cemetery used to save up paupers etc, and then bury them in a mass grave. Tobor Kaldor, another Adelaide poisoning, met that fate, and then to add insult to injury, a property developer in a hurry churned over all of the pauper's plots in the 1970s I think? It's a dreadful way to treat the dead, everyone deserves a decent place to lie.

 

[SquiffyRae]

Sadly, West terrace cemetery used to save up paupers etc, and then bury them in a mass grave. Tobor Kaldor, another Adelaide poisoning, met that fate, and then to add insult to injury, a property developer in a hurry churned over all of the pauper's plots in the 1970s I think? It's a dreadful way to treat the dead, everyone deserves a decent place to lie.

Reddit user VioletTrick mentioned in a comment in r/australia on the exhumation that their mother had been researching their family tree and recently discovered one family member was buried in the same mass grave as the Somerton Man. According to VioletTrick, there were 3 bodies in that plot with SM being on top. Very much sounds like SM got the same treatment at the time

 

[SquiffyRae]

And still the big question has not been asked by the media. During the autopsy a detailed dental chart was taken, the man had 18 teeth missing and the chart revealed just which ones they were. The remains should have the same identical dental chart, no one's asked and none has mentioned it. Detective Supt Bray informed us that the remains were identified because there was a tag with the remains. Any thoughts on that? Is that a 'positive identification'?

If a new chart is made and it doesn't match up, then what? What's the betting it gets asked by the weekend?

View attachment 1132577

I'd like to hope the tag is good enough to be a positive ID, only because I'd like to hope at the very least they'd ensure they tagged the right body. But human error exists and I agree with you it would be best for whoever conducts the initial examination to firstly confirm that this is 100% the remains that need to be looked at. The last thing anyone wants is to miss out on the best chance to give this man his identity back because they removed the wrong person from the grave.

Those dental records are pretty specific so it should be easy enough to verify the remains exhumed from that plot match those of the autopsy. I'd imagine that'd be their best bet of getting a positive ID that can't be botched by human error. I'm no expert in decomposition rates but I'm guessing after 73 years any soft tissue would be long gone. Luckily SM had very distinctive teeth

 

[johnymac1]

always walk my dogs past that stretch of beach, I often wondered what happened to that Dude

 

[sprockets]

And still the big question has not been asked by the media. During the autopsy a detailed dental chart was taken, the man had 18 teeth missing and the chart revealed just which ones they were. The remains should have the same identical dental chart, no one's asked and none has mentioned it. Detective Supt Bray informed us that the remains were identified because there was a tag with the remains. Any thoughts on that? Is that a 'positive identification'?

If a new chart is made and it doesn't match up, then what? What's the betting it gets asked by the weekend?

View attachment 1132577

I'd like to hope the tag is good enough to be a positive ID, only because I'd like to hope at the very least they'd ensure they tagged the right body. But human error exists and I agree with you it would be best for whoever conducts the initial examination to firstly confirm that this is 100% the remains that need to be looked at. The last thing anyone wants is to miss out on the best chance to give this man his identity back because they removed the wrong person from the grave.

Those dental records are pretty specific so it should be easy enough to verify the remains exhumed from that plot match those of the autopsy. I'd imagine that'd be their best bet of getting a positive ID that can't be botched by human error. I'm no expert in decomposition rates but I'm guessing after 73 years any soft tissue would be long gone. Luckily SM had very distinctive teeth

That's probably how they identified him during the exhumation especially if he was in with others.

 

[Kurve]

Sadly, West terrace cemetery used to save up paupers etc, and then bury them in a mass grave. Tobor Kaldor, another Adelaide poisoning, met that fate, and then to add insult to injury, a property developer in a hurry churned over all of the pauper's plots in the 1970s I think? It's a dreadful way to treat the dead, everyone deserves a decent place to lie.

Do we know if they buried him in the same clothes he was wearing when found? I'd reckon though, they would already know if they had taken out the wrong person.

After taking such an interest in who he is Gordon, you must be stirred up a bit knowing it's so close to finding out who he might be and where he came from.

 

[GreyCrow]

Do we know if they buried him in the same clothes he was wearing when found? I'd reckon though, they would already know if they had taken out the wrong person.

After taking such an interest in who he is Gordon, you must be stirred up a bit knowing it's so close to finding out who he might be and where he came from.

Wouldn't they have kept his clothes? Or was that too early to think about

 

[Kurve]

Wouldn't they have kept his clothes? Or was that too early to think about

I was thinking if they were doing it on the cheap, they might have put him in with the clothes he was in although he looked quite tidy in the official pic.

 

[Redacted]

Here is one collection of family trees of anyone related to the case, or similar cases, and people related to various theories such as espionage, and even families with similar physical deformities etc. Unfortunately not many of the living had recorded their DNA kits, but over time that might change, as more people connected to these trees join the site merge themselves into the Geni World tree and more profiles will be added. Maybe one day Somerton Man might just be found amongst all these people and his body then be repatriated to his living relatives.

Somerton Man genealogy project

A collection of genealogical profiles related to Somerton Man

www.geni.com

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[Redacted]

Audio is a bit low, but this is the official press conference as recorded by SA Police


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[zedx]

Another unsafe assumption is the circumstances in which how the book was found.
Taking Jessica's explanations and Chemist Freeman's explanations at face value might be all that SA Police could do at the time, but given the findings of the Coroner over cause of death and the lack of finding any identity documents, a wallet, even a missing means of lighting the cigarettes found upon the corpse, and no container for a poison, it would beggar belief that Jessica and the chemists statements didn't warrant further scrutiny, and a decision to get them back in for a more rigorous set of questions to elicit a more satisfactory explanation of these circumstances.

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What has always struck me was that the book was found in a Chemists car and that SM was believed to have been poisoned. Coincidence?

 

[Redacted]

What has always struck me was that the book was found in a Chemists car and that SM was believed to have been poisoned. Coincidence?

Yes, it's something that probably should be prompted SA Police to consider further inquiries once the coroner said that poisoning was likely cause of death.
A chemist, a vehicle, and possible interference with a corpse should've prompted considering a search warrant on the car at least IMO

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[zedx]

Yes, it's something that probably should be prompted SA Police to consider further inquiries once the coroner said that poisoning was likely cause of death.
A chemist, a vehicle, and possible interference with a corpse should've prompted considering a search warrant on the car at least IMO

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I was reading on another site, the idea, that a group of educated individuals ( or vigilantes ) may have thought SM was a communist and so accosted him. This would answer SM's grazed knuckles and facial bruise. The Chemist who found the book in his car also lived with his brother, who was also a Chemist, above their Chemist shop on the road just up from where SM was found. Interesting idea?

 

[Redacted]

I was reading on another site, the idea, that a group of educated individuals ( or vigilantes ) may have thought SM was a communist and so accosted him. This would answer SM's grazed knuckles and facial bruise. The Chemist who found the book in his car also lived with his brother, who was also a Chemist, above their Chemist shop on the road just up from where SM was found. Interesting idea?

True, the scratches could indicate a struggle. The fact that they're not extensive enough to be considered by the coroner as cause of death, might indicate that SM was already under the influence of the substance that the coroner thought caused his death. An absence of a wallet as well, might be cause to suspect that he was robbed whilst dying, or someone manhandled him to place him at the location where his corpse was found. The location of grazes on the knuckles probably don't support a counter argument that this injury is from interaction with the seawall or stairs as in a stumble or fall.
IMO it's most likely he was manhandled to his resting place and regained enough consciousness to realise what was up when they rifled his clothes to remove identifying possessions and fought back. But that's just a suspicion. Did police have reason to not suspect foul play?

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[zedx]

True, the scratches could indicate a struggle. The fact that they're not extensive enough to be considered by the coroner as cause of death, might indicate that SM was already under the influence of the substance that the coroner thought caused his death. An absence of a wallet as well, might be cause to suspect that he was robbed whilst dying, or someone manhandled him to place him at the location where his corpse was found. The location of grazes on the knuckles probably don't support a counter argument that this injury is from interaction with the seawall or stairs as in a stumble or fall.
IMO it's most likely he was manhandled to his resting place and regained enough consciousness to realise what was up when they rifled his clothes to remove identifying possessions and fought back. But that's just a suspicion. Did police have reason to not suspect foul play?

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FYI -
Dr Abbott isn’t convinced that the Somerton Man was poisoned. “Pathologists of the time were trained in the Victorian era, and the tendency of the time was to suggest a poison if there was no apparent cause of death,” he said in a Reddit AMA. “Remember, no poison was detected. So we are on thin ground if we suggest it definitely was a poison.
Professor Cleland:
‘I have considered the circumstances disclosed in the evidence, and I came to the opinion, taking all the circumstance into account, that death was almost certainly not natural, and in all probability that some poison had been taken, with suicidal intent

 

[Redacted]

FYI -
Dr Abbott isn’t convinced that the Somerton Man was poisoned. “Pathologists of the time were trained in the Victorian era, and the tendency of the time was to suggest a poison if there was no apparent cause of death,” he said in a Reddit AMA. “Remember, no poison was detected. So we are on thin ground if we suggest it definitely was a poison.
Professor Cleland:
‘I have considered the circumstances disclosed in the evidence, and I came to the opinion, taking all the circumstance into account, that death was almost certainly not natural, and in all probability that some poison had been taken, with suicidal intent

Maybe the testing done now will be able to confirm the presence of a toxic substance and what it was and probable dosage. I don't know if that's possible with the state of the remains at present and due to the embalming process used in 1949 but I'm sure that it would be 1 of the topics that SA Police would be discussing at this forensics meeting they talked about.

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[Kurve]

Maybe the testing done now will be able to confirm the presence of a toxic substance and what it was and probable dosage. I don't know if that's possible with the state of the remains at present and due to the embalming process used in 1949 but I'm sure that it would be 1 of the topics that SA Police would be discussing at this forensics meeting they talked about.

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Traces might still be in his hair. If I was working on this, I'd be in the lab around the clock until we had everything we could take.

 

[Redacted]

An unlocked article for once. Maybe their pay wall is down?

Mystery around Somerton Man‘s identity could be permanent https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/brea...r/news-story/fb6bfb7961023ed2113a93d979165160 via @thetiser

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[Redacted]

In the Port Pirie Recorder....

Does Somerton Man have local connection? https://www.portpirierecorder.com.au/story/7269076/does-somerton-man-have-local-connection/ via @pprecorder

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